Does the 2/3 format cause inconsistencies in tournaments?

[M2Dave]

Does the 2/3 format cause inconsistencies (i.e., randomness) in tournaments?

Below are a few extreme but recent results.

- KDZ wins Winter Brawl but is unable to get out of pools at Final Round
- Playing To Win does not win a single match at Kumite but makes top 8 losers at Final Round
- GGA 16 Bit performs poorly at SCR but makes top 8 winners at Final Round

Given the nature of the round system, 50/50 mix ups, and interactable objects, does the better player always win in the 2/3 format? Or are these polarized results due to other factors?

 

[Jeremy KO]

I think these results may be a little more consistent if every player played Deathstroke.

 

[EMPEROR_JUPITER]

I wouldn't say 3/5 is the main reason for a lot of inconsistencies in tournament. I just think the competition in this game is much stronger then it was in mk9.

 

[RunwayMafia]

I think all games (MK, InJ) should be 3/5....anyone who competes and takes these things seriously knows...that a few gimmicks here and there can dictate a match.

 

[RIF]

I concur.

- This game is heavily based on momentum. Certain characters just steamroll the opponent when they negotiate a favorable position.

- The damage is also fairly high with certain characters pushing 40+% consistently from a variety of confirms.

- Match-up knowledge is critical in Injustice. The better player can lose based on unfamiliarity.

A 2/3 format will lend itself to greater amount of inconsistent results because of these factors and the one's you've mentioned. An argument can be made that the current 2/3 format is allowing for the variability we are seeing in Top 8's. That might be a good thing.

 

[GGA HAN]

yes. this and polarizing matchups (or lack or MU knowledge) cause inconsistency.

 

[juicepouch]

I concur.

- This game is heavily based on momentum. Certain characters just steamroll the opponent when they negotiate a favorable position.

- The damage is also fairly high with certain characters pushing 40+% consistently from a variety of confirms.

- Match-up knowledge is critical in Injustice. The better player can lose based on unfamiliarity.

A 2/3 format will lend itself to greater amount of inconsistent results because of these factors and the one's you've mentioned. An argument can be made that the current 2/3 format is allowing for the variability we are seeing in Top 8's.

if 2/3 is what's making this game so wild and unpredictable, I say we keep it. The varied top 8s are my favorite thing about this game

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Yeah 2/3 makes things... random to say the least.

 

[M2Dave]

I think these results may be a little more consistent if every player played Deathstroke.

I agree. Who would not want to use a character who has only three bad match ups? After seeing King Hippo's match up chart, I have to switch to Deathstroke.

if 2/3 is what's making this game so wild and unpredictable, I say we keep it. The varied top 8s are my favorite thing about this game

It is not so "wild and unpredictable" for the tournament player who spends $500+ to travel to these major tournaments. In fact, I think it is bull shit.

 

[rev0lver]

if 2/3 is what's making this game so wild and unpredictable, I say we keep it. The varied top 8s are my favorite thing about this game

As much as I think it's hype, you can't tell tournament players who spend hours practicing this game to place well that they should be able to get randomed out more for hype.

 

[THTB]

Tbh, the game's quality of play spikes every tournament just about. One month your level of play is the best, then the next someone comes in and steps it up above even you.

The game is young and the players are still learning and getting better, so tournament results are going to massively fluctuate, even with 3/5.

 

[juicepouch]

It is not so "wild and unpredictable" for the tournament player who spends $500+ to travel to these major tournaments. In fact, I think it is bull shit.

As much as I think it's hype, you can't tell tournament players who spend hours practicing this game to place well that they should be able to get randomed out more for hype.

I understand the frustration from your POVs, but is 3/5 really the answer? Doesn't it create problems with time restriction? I thought that was why we didn't do 3/5 in the first place after Paulo said it was designed with 3/5 in mind

 

[16 Bit]

It's mostly just the nature of the game. Matchups, both knowledge and the actual options, matter more than they did in MK. Everyone has a shot right now because of the fundamentals of the engine and the lack of mu knowledge. 3/5 might help but not by much. You used me as an example and I lost no games today. I am fairly confident my SCR and FR results would have played out the same.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

@General M2Dave I believe everything you mentioned is based on the following:

-People not thoroughly knowing matchups
-People not taking players seriously when they don't view them as threats
-A larger and more diverse pool of good players (how many players at FR were capable of knocking off a 'top name'? lots)
-A higher number of viable characters (even characacters that are considered to suck are highly dangerous if you don't know the ins and outs, like Joker and Shazam)

I think that to reduce it to 2/3 is an oversimplification that doesn't actually look at what happened in each case.

 

[Insuperable]

Marvel is 3/5.

Even if Injustice is 3/5 or 2/3, the results will be different. However, that's how games like Marvel and Injustice work. One interactable can change the entire match, or in prepatch days, one unblocked f23 in the corner = dead.

 

[Yoaks]

Even tho I would love all the matches to 3/5. It would be just TOO DAMN LONG! The way it is now is the best. Even with the nature of IGAU being a "Guessing Game".

 

[Yoaks]

Also! Bracketology (Dont know if I spelled that right). I remember hearing @GGA 16 Bit saying that he can make Top 8, if he had the right Bracketology. This, imo plays heavily in the placings that we get at Majors currently.

EDIT: I'm not saying 16 Bit sucks btw. Catwoman just has harder mu's then most.

 

[EGGXI]

You have to admit that a lot of the players mentioned in the OP have extremely close games. Some tournaments are more stacked than others, nearly every character is viable, and as we've seen this weekend each character can be played a multitude of different ways/styles.

You could argue that 3/5 would give the better player more time to adapt etc. but the same argument could be made that the better player shouldn't be falling for shenanigans at this point in the life of the game.

 

[M2Dave]

Marvel is 3/5.

It is because the game was considered to be "too random".

I think the KDZ example is the best one. I never recall seeing Chris G win a major tournament and then not get out of pools, even in a game as insane as UMvC3.

But I guess the NRS community cannot request 3/5 because we are not important enough.

 

[Big Pampering]

I think 16 bit not making top 8 had a little bit to do with crappy tier sinestro

 

[rev0lver]

@General M2Dave I believe everything you mentioned is based on the following:

-People not thoroughly knowing matchups
-People not taking players seriously when they don't view them as threats
-A larger and more diverse pool of good players (how many players at FR were capable of knocking off a 'top name'? lots)
-A higher number of viable characters (even characacters that are considered to suck are highly dangerous if you don't know the ins and outs, like Joker and Shazam)

I think that to reduce it to 2/3 is an oversimplification that doesn't actually look at what happened in each case.

To be completely honest I disagree. I think this game comes much closer to Marvel in terms of being able to random someone out than in MK9. I don't think it's a coincidence that upsets and surprises are happening far more at this point of this game's life than what we've seen before. We do have a lot of good players, and people do still not know matchups. But even when it comes down to two top players who both know their matchups well, I feel like there's so much in terms of situational advantages on stages and being able to nearly kill off 1 combo into a setup/mixup.

Dave already made a thread about this but I think it's especially true with the round system. You can get randomed out or just guess wrong in the first health bar and then have to work twice as hard to come back. I feel like there would be significantly more consistency if we went to 3/5.

It is because the game was considered to be "too random".

I think the KDZ example is the best one. I never recall seeing Chris G win a major tournament and then not get out of pools, even in a game as insane as UMvC3.

But I guess the NRS community cannot request 3/5 because we are not important enough.

tbh the problem with this for us is time. marvel can do it because they always have shitloads of setups. Final Round today was 2/3 and went from roughly 10-11AM to midnight when everyone else had been done for hours. even if they just streamed a few less matches, they probably would've gotten kicked out before they finished.

 

[Art]

Here's a dumb suggestion...

Why don't the TOs just assign players numbers as they register. Then based on their current standings separate those players into random hat draws with other players who are close to if not the same in standings as that player. Then let the random draws determine the pools...? Sounds a bit complicated but not really. I think we'd see allot more diverse pools that way.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

Heres a hint, TOTFC 7 VA"s Regional has become 3/5 and our Major Civil war will be the first 3/5 only major, it has already happened. Prereg and go, how more simple can it get, get over it stop crying and travel and compete. Delete the thread because this already happened. VA knows how to run IGAU. <3

 

[TomlulsBrady]

Tom Brady and 16bit summed it up perfectly why there is some inconsistency in placings during mk9 commentary on friday and its basically boiled down to the nature of the game. Tom pretty much said and 16bit agree'ed this game focus less on fundamentals like mk9 and more geared towards the over the top shenanigans and messed up guessing games as its its design to be a over the top super hero game similar to marvel so no I don't think 3/5 would matter much your just gonna run into some fucked up dirt and sometimes you will guess wrong and can't come back from it.

Also lbsh REO injustice tournament resume level of consistency is amazing. Been placing in every era of this game he is a top 5 overall injustice player if he continues this run.

 

[Sami]

I thought it had been decided that 3/5 was best for this game. Hell, even the devs said that...