Less Scaling on Xray Combos?

[King]

What do the following characters have in common?

Kabal
Kitana
Scorpion
Sonya
Shang Tsung
Mileena


Answer: Their Xrays are nearly useless in combos.

Take Kabal for example. We all know that Kabal has a block trap that builds insane meter. He also has an iaFB that builds decent meter. What does Kabal use that meter for? I'll tell you what he doesn't use it for: his Xray. Kabal players almost never use their xray in combos because it generally only tacks on 2-4% more damage on any of his BnBs. Kabal also never uses a naked or random xray because it has wacky armor properties and is generally unreliable and extremely unsafe on block. This poor xray he has makes Kabal that much better of a character (I know it sounds crazy) because now, he has the liberty of saving all that built up meter for EX Dashes and breakers. Once Kabal uses a breaker, he is safe again and can go back to setting up the block traps and doing iaFB to build meter for another breaker.

By contrast, look at a Johnny Cage player. A JC player who's built up all that meter from specials and block string pressure will be much more careful of his usage in breakers since he knows that his Xray gives him a 50%+ damage combo that ends in him having advantage. This means that he'll need to think twice about when he wants to break since his Xray is that good.

Basically my argument is that by making an Xray so worthless -or in other words - make it a much less favorable choice for characters like the ones mentioned, it actually makes certain characters appear much better than they are. If, however, xrays scaled much less in combos, someone sitting on a full meter might think twice about breaking a 40% combo since they might ruin their chances of landing a minimum 50%+ damage combo later on.

My proposition is to have Xrays scale much less than they currently do in combos. How much less? I don't know to be honest. I don't want to arbitrarily assign some value and have it be way off but it should be something that would really make using 3 meters a good choice. In this way, choosing between an xray and a breaker wouldn't be such an obvious choice.

What do you guys think about this?

 

[D. R.]

What do the following characters have in common?

Kabal
Kitana
Scorpion
Sonya
Shang Tsung
Mileena


Answer: Their Xrays are nearly useless in combos.

Take Kabal for example. We all know that Kabal has a block trap that builds insane meter. He also has an iaFB that builds decent meter. What does Kabal use that meter for? I'll tell you what he doesn't use it for: his Xray. Kabal players almost never use their xray in combos because it generally only tacks on 2-4% more damage on any of his BnBs. Kabal also never uses a naked or random xray because it has wacky armor properties and is generally unreliable and extremely unsafe on block. This poor xray he has makes Kabal that much better of a character (I know it sounds crazy) because now, he has the liberty of saving all that built up meter for EX Dashes and breakers. Once Kabal uses a breaker, he is safe again and can go back to setting up the block traps and doing iaFB to build meter for another breaker.

By contrast, look at a Johnny Cage player. A JC player who's built up all that meter from specials and block string pressure will be much more careful of his usage in breakers since he knows that his Xray gives him a 50%+ damage combo that ends in him having advantage. This means that he'll need to think twice about when he wants to break since his Xray is that good.

Basically my argument is that by making an Xray so worthless -or in other words - make it a much less favorable choice for characters like the ones mentioned, it actually makes certain characters appear much better than they are. If, however, xrays scaled much less in combos, someone sitting on a full meter might think twice about breaking a 40% combo since they might ruin their chances of landing a minimum 50%+ damage combo later on.

My proposition is to have Xrays scale much less than they currently do in combos. How much less? I don't know to be honest. I don't want to arbitrarily assign some value and have it be way off but it should be something that would really make using 3 meters a good choice. In this way, choosing between an xray and a breaker wouldn't be such an obvious choice.

What do you guys think about this?

No. No, no, no. You pretty much already solved your own arguement by comparing JC's X-Ray to Kabal's X-Ray both being used in combos. I'll explain better. With how damage scaling works in the game, basically once you do your combo and get the opponent airbourne, your follow up hits damage prorates down more and more. What this means is basically you want to do your biggest damage on the ground. Now, lets look at this with said X-Ray's. JC catches the opponent in his X-Ray, then continues with a prorated juggle. X-Ray at the beginning, big damage. Kabal does a BnB, then decides to end his already prorated down damage combo with an X-Ray. X-Ray at the end, very little damage. You get the gest of what I'm saying?

 

[PunisherAlive]

Most advanced Mileena player use their meter for EX Moves such as teleport, sais, Balroll.
Most kitana player use it for EX Moves,
Scorpion's is a bit useless yes, but is easy to combo into.
Shang tsung player NEED their meter for EX Groundskull for a big combo.
Kabal EX Nomad dash on wake-up is very good.

 

[FatalTragedy]

I didn't even know the meter had three bars that could be depleted simultanaeously.

 

[Klunker]

For those characters, using ex moves is more beneficial than doing an xray. So why waste 3 meters doing something than you can do with 1?

 

[Gamin_Guru]

The way I see it, we have some characters that are highly dependant on EX moves in combos to do decent damage (Shang Tsung) while other characters (Lui Kang) build metre quickly and dont even spend it on EX moves (in combos) and therefore almost always have a breaker available or the threat of an X-Ray exists. In my opinion, any combo that consists of a repetition of three hits followed by a dash should never be doing that much damage.

It's probably too late to make this change in this game, but in future installments, NRS needs to force EX special use in combos to do the big 35%+ combos and strings like Lui Kang's 213/B+321 should not exist. Damage in combos needs to be relatively in proportion to their execution. So doing those kind of loops should never exceed at max 25% damage and gravity should drop the juggle after the second repetition. There needs to be drastic scaling for easy-to-do 3 button juggles.

 

[CptXecution]

You should really add Reptile to that list but there's a reason it's scaled so far down.

 

[King]

No. No, no, no. You pretty much already solved your own arguement by comparing JC's X-Ray to Kabal's X-Ray both being used in combos. I'll explain better. With how damage scaling works in the game, basically once you do your combo and get the opponent airbourne, your follow up hits damage prorates down more and more. What this means is basically you want to do your biggest damage on the ground. Now, lets look at this with said X-Ray's. JC catches the opponent in his X-Ray, then continues with a prorated juggle. X-Ray at the beginning, big damage. Kabal does a BnB, then decides to end his already prorated down damage combo with an X-Ray. X-Ray at the end, very little damage. You get the gest of what I'm saying?

I realize what you are saying, but I'm arguing that an Xray should scale less regardless of where it is in the combo. Also, my example with Johnny Cage was to just demonstrate the mentality of a player playing with a character that has a good Xray instead of a relatively useless one. When you have a really good Xray, the choice between Xray and breaker is a lot more difficult. Right now, the majority of people wouldn't think twice about trading an Xray for a breaker since Xrays are so useless in combos.

 

[King]

Most advanced Mileena player use their meter for EX Moves such as teleport, sais, Balroll.
Most kitana player use it for EX Moves,
Scorpion's is a bit useless yes, but is easy to combo into.
Shang tsung player NEED their meter for EX Groundskull for a big combo.
Kabal EX Nomad dash on wake-up is very good.

1) Ok, good point.
2) Actually no. Kitana has 45% meterless midscreen combos and similar combos in the corner. Kitana players mostly save up for breaker or the occasional EX fan.
3) Sure, it's easy to combo into but is it worth it? It only adds about 3-5% extra damage on his combos. This is why I'm saying Xrays are pretty pointless the way they are now. Especially for a Scorpion player who relies on meter for EX teleports and EX spears. Using 3 meters must be worth it for a Scorpion player and right now, it isn't.
4) Good point.
5) Yep. He has no reason to NOT go for them since he doesn't need his meter for anything else.

My basic point is that the choice between Xray and breaker is too easy now. By having Xrays scale much less in combos, the choice between Xray and breaker becomes a much more difficult one since you now could choose between breaking a combo or dishing out a large damage combo of your own. Right now, all the big damage combos don't need Xrays and that's the problem.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

1) Ok, good point.
2) Actually no. Kitana has 45% meterless midscreen combos and similar combos in the corner. Kitana players mostly save up for breaker or the occasional EX fan.
3) Sure, it's easy to combo into but is it worth it? It only adds about 3-5% extra damage on his combos. This is why I'm saying Xrays are pretty pointless the way they are now. Especially for a Scorpion player who relies on meter for EX teleports and EX spears. Using 3 meters must be worth it for a Scorpion player and right now, it isn't.
4) Good point.
5) Yep. He has no reason to NOT go for them since he doesn't need his meter for anything else.

My basic point is that the choice between Xray and breaker is too easy now. By having Xrays scale much less in combos, the choice between Xray and breaker becomes a much more difficult one since you now could choose between breaking a combo or dishing out a large damage combo of your own. Right now, all the big damage combos don't need Xrays and that's the problem.

You main SZ and say the largest combo's don't need xray? really?
I think some of the xrays scale too much yes. But it would have to be on a character to character basis. Scorpion wishes his Xray did more damage than his combos (so do I).

 

[THTB]

X-Rays now aren't really for combos. They're there if the character doesn't need the meter for anything else, or if X-Ray in the particular matchup is better.

 

[Lyuben]

X-Rays now aren't really for combos. They're there if the character doesn't need the meter for anything else, or if X-Ray in the particular matchup is better.

Depends on the character. Sub-Zero is an x-ray user. His 2,1,4 scales VERY well with X-ray and as a result he can get high 40 and low 50% from his x-ray. Before the reset was found and made popular he needed the x-ray a lot to finish fights as he has quite low damage.

 

[spongebob]

My basic point is that the choice between Xray and breaker is too easy now. By having Xrays scale much less in combos, the choice between Xray and breaker becomes a much more difficult one since you now could choose between breaking a combo or dishing out a large damage combo of your own. Right now, all the big damage combos don't need Xrays and that's the problem.

You use x-ray's in combos for unbreakerable damage and naked x-rays when the situation calls for it. The x-rays that don't scale well usually have loads of hits so wouldn't we have to change universal damage scaling to change that? Dunno not sure how it works but they don't need changes.

Combo's do enough damage as they are and 60-70% x-ray combos if they really do scale that much (that you'd use them over EX) I wouldn't like to see.

 

[King]

You main SZ and say the largest combo's don't need xray? really?

Yea so what? Sub happens to have a very good Xray attack that would normally turn 20-25% BnB combos into 45%+ combos. Scorpion, for example, turns his 40% BnB into a ... 43-45% combo when using his Xray. You be the judge. Would you rather tack on 20%+ damage for 3 meters or tack on 5% more damage?

I think some of the xrays scale too much yes. But it would have to be on a character to character basis. Scorpion wishes his Xray did more damage than his combos (so do I).

I'm not advocating for a buff to an Xray's damage when done naked. I'm simply saying that Xrays should have special scaling properties within combos; these scaling properties would be different from normal damage scaling rules and would allow Xrays to deal damage that is worthy of using 3 bars.

X-Rays now aren't really for combos. They're there if the character doesn't need the meter for anything else, or if X-Ray in the particular matchup is better.

My point is why shouldn't they be there for combos? I mean, sure they ARE there, but no one's really going to waste their whole bar for 3-5% extra damage in most cases. I have a full bar and I'd like to add some serious damage to my combos in exchange for that full bar. As of now, it's really not a viable option because the scaling is balls on most X-ray combos.

You use x-ray's in combos for unbreakerable damage and naked x-rays when the situation calls for it. The x-rays that don't scale well usually have loads of hits so wouldn't we have to change universal damage scaling to change that? Dunno not sure how it works but they don't need changes.

I know you use Xrays for unbreakable damage. My point is how much of that damage is unbreakable. 3-5% in most cases at the end of combos. That isn't worth wasting 3 bars when you could be saving them for future breakers and EX moves.

Also, Xrays shouldn't follow the rules of normal damage scaling - they are special attacks that require a huge sacrifice of meter and should thus reward you well in combos. An Xray that originally does 35% only doing 5% at the end of a 8 hit combo is pathetic.

Combo's do enough damage as they are and 60-70% x-ray combos if they really do scale that much (that you'd use them over EX) I wouldn't like to see.

Why not? You'd still be able to breaker the combo up until the Xray and the opponent would be at a sever meter disadvantage and you'd build a lot of meter from eating all that damage. And like I said before, knowing that you have the potential to do that kind of damage with a full bar will make the choice between breakers and Xray a lot more difficult. Right now, no one would rather save their meter for Xrays over breakers.