Super Smash Bros. back into EVO lineup

[Tony at Home]

Good for Smash players, hopefully Nintendo starts to embrace their community.

This would be a dream come true.

But unfortunately Nintendo doesn't even like the very idea their game is being played competitively. To them, "no items, final destination/battlefield" is playing the game wrong.
http://www.polygon.com/2013/3/13/4098010/sakurai-discusses-why-smash-bros-brawl-online-isnt-exactly-thrilling?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co

I wouldn't be surprised if by the next Smash game, we lose the option to turn items off entirely- and that the only stages not actively trying to kill the participants constantly are replaced with Pokefloats.

That's right Pokefloats...
POKEFLOATS

POKE-FREAKING-FLOATS

Seriously, F* this stage.

 

[Zoidberg747]

This would be a dream come true.

But unfortunately Nintendo doesn't even like the very idea their game is being played competitively. To them, "no items, final destination/battlefield" is playing the game wrong.
http://www.polygon.com/2013/3/13/4098010/sakurai-discusses-why-smash-bros-brawl-online-isnt-exactly-thrilling?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co

I wouldn't be surprised if by the next Smash game, we lose the option to turn items off entirely- and that the only stages not actively trying to kill the participants constantly are replaced with Pokefloats.

That's right Pokefloats...
POKEFLOATS

POKE-FREAKING-FLOATS

Seriously, F* this stage.

That stage was hilarious.

Nintendo has never been about the hardcore gamer though, so I understand somewhat what he is talking about. But as someone else said, most of the Smash community isnt going to get into the next one anyway, so I doubt anything Nintendo does will have much effect.

 

[Eric The Scruffy]

You've all misread my posts in so many ways... I've had to color-code my responses

Orange: This is a "tu quoque" logical fallacy.

Quote:

It's not surprising they have a huge turnout, given all that dedication to keeping their game alive- but can I see the community still being alive in 10 years the same way as Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter?

You may have obfuscated your central point by making a bad comparison to the MK community, but please don't accuse people of "misreading" your post because you got blown up for it. And if your point was that there will be new MK game eventually while Smash will still be playing Melee:

Blue: This is a "straw man" logical fallacy. I never stated the Smash community wasn't big or wasn't passionate.

Green: This does not contribute to refuting my central point.

My point was NOT that the community wasn't big or dedicated, just that their game, more than any other game, requires an INCREASING amount of dedication over the years. The older the game gets, the harder it is to keep playing it. They need to make the controllers themselves, patch and hack the game themselves, and then hope they can get Nintendo to be "ok" with showing their own homebrew patched version of the game- or at least the TO's to not care what Nintendo thinks. That, or they're going to have to increasingly rely on an old console that won't be producing new units or new controllers- hence increasing demand for homebrew mods and work-arounds.

Give me a reason it's not going to get harder and harder to keep playing a game from 2001 going into 2024- and that you DEFINITELY know this game will still be around in 2020 given it needs to run on old hardware, and Evo will have have a VERY difficult time getting Nintendo to be OK with streaming a modded version of their game.

Well the Smash franchise isn't ending anytime soon, and personally I wouldn't put it past Nintendo to pull an about face at some point down the line in the near future and start paying attention to the competitive scene. Given how insular Nintendo has been it might seem inconceivable right now, but given their current state with things like the Wii-u and the ever changing market of portable gaming, its not hard to see that major change is on the horizon for them in one way or another.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Smash is waste of a fighting game spot. If MLG wanted to pick up a fighting game, why not Injustice?

But perhaps I am mistaken and MLG is trying to target the underage demographic.

This is for EVO. I don't see MLG ever picking up Smash.

 

[Zoidberg747]

This is for EVO. I don't see MLG ever picking up Smash.

See new OP

 

[Tony at Home]

You may have obfuscated your central point by making a bad comparison to the MK community, but please don't accuse people of "misreading" your post because you got blown up for it. And if your point was that there will be new MK game eventually while Smash will still be playing Melee:

.

My point is it's getting harder and harder to play Melee.

You need an old console that isn't made anymore to play the game, or you need to keep modding new software to play competitively like the old software.

The older it gets, the harder this becomes because of the degradation of the old hardware, and the increasing difference in the new hardware from the old makes it difficult to continuously retrofit. One could make a Project M out of Brawl- but it will be even harder to do the Wii U version, and so on and so forth.

As sturdy as the consoles are, Nintendo Wii's aren't going to run forever.

The only real long term solution- as you stated, is to finally get Nintendo to wake-up and support the game.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

See new OP

Statement retracted. But wow that's surprising. I thought MLG would only care about the hot new games.

 

[Zoidberg747]

My point is it's getting harder and harder to play Melee.

You need an old console that isn't made anymore to play the game, or you need to keep modding new software to play competitively like the old software.

The older it gets, the harder this becomes because of the degradation of the old hardware, and the increasing difference in the new hardware from the old makes it difficult to continuously retrofit. One could make a Project M out of Brawl- but it will be even harder to do the Wii U version, and so on and so forth.

As sturdy as the consoles are, Nintendo Wii's aren't going to run forever.

The only real long term solution- as you stated, is to finally get Nintendo to wake-up and support the game.

What is the difference between playing melee and playing something like MKT or ST? There are still plenty of tournaments for them and they all are on inferior software as well are they not? (I genuinely dont know, so feel free to correct me)

 

[Tony at Home]

What is the difference between playing melee and playing something like MKT or ST? There are still plenty of tournaments for them and they all are on inferior software as well are they not? (I genuinely dont know, so feel free to correct me)

MKT has been rereleased on modern consoles, so it doesn't require an old console that will eventually die. It won't be a problem in the forseeable future to not have new hardware available to play the game.

If MKT could for some reason only be played on a N64 or original Playstation then that would eventually become a problem.

 

[Eric The Scruffy]

MKT has been rereleased on modern consoles, so it doesn't require an old console that will eventually die. It won't be a problem in the forseeable future to not have new hardware available to play the game.

If MKT could for some reason only be played on a N64 or original Playstation then that would eventually become a problem.

I have a paperweight I don't feel like dusting off and plugging in, but Nintendo have a marketplace for old nintendo games, right? Plus they've started doing HD remakes with Windwaker. I wouldn't be surprised if they do one or the other for Melee.

 

[Tony at Home]

I have a paperweight I don't feel like dusting off and plugging in, but Nintendo have a marketplace for old nintendo games, right? Plus they've started doing HD remakes with Windwaker. I wouldn't be surprised if they do one or the other for Melee.

Of course if they remade Melee, that would be a breath of life, it would solve the problem of the community being reliant on hardware that is no longer being manufactured.

 

[legion666]

My point is it's getting harder and harder to play Melee.

You need an old console that isn't made anymore to play the game, or you need to keep modding new software to play competitively like the old software.

The older it gets, the harder this becomes because of the degradation of the old hardware, and the increasing difference in the new hardware from the old makes it difficult to continuously retrofit. One could make a Project M out of Brawl- but it will be even harder to do the Wii U version, and so on and so forth.

As sturdy as the consoles are, Nintendo Wii's aren't going to run forever.

The only real long term solution- as you stated, is to finally get Nintendo to wake-up and support the game.

But you did say that in 10 years they will no longer exist unlike SF and MORTAL KOMBAT communities. Which is completely illogical then, because if they have enough dedication to support a game on a dying console for so many years and MK scene can't even support a game on for 3 years on a PS3 /xbox 360/PC why wouldn't they exist in 10 years and MK will?

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

But you did say that in 10 years they will no longer exist unlike SF and MORTAL KOMBAT communities. Which is completely illogical then, because if they have enough dedication to support a game on a dying console for so many years and MK scene can't even support a game on for 3 years on a PS3 /xbox 360/PC why wouldn't they exist in 10 years and MK will?

I believe he is sayin, while the smash community remains dedicated, over time it will harder and harder to stay dedicated due to the aging of the consoles. Gamecubes and GC controllers are no longer manufactured, therefore once the last one breaks, its gone. From there, it becomes homebrew PC or Wii ports, which Nintendo will more than likely not allow to be streamed. Unless this new Smash Bros is what diehard melee fans have been waiting for, I dont see melee making it another 10 years either.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

I just started playing smash, so this is cool (btw people don't be afraid to try it, it's different but at the end of the day it is still just you and your opponent). I'm not sure if Melee will still be played in ten years, it seems unlikely, but so did this run that they have going now. Smash N64 still has a small scene I believe, so it could be possible to keep things going longer still. And from what I understand, the melee community is growing. However, @LtLuthor made some good points and it will be interesting to see how things move forward.

 

[Tony at Home]

But you did say that in 10 years they will no longer exist unlike SF and MORTAL KOMBAT communities. Which is completely illogical then, because if they have enough dedication to support a game on a dying console for so many years and MK scene can't even support a game on for 3 years on a PS3 /xbox 360/PC why wouldn't they exist in 10 years and MK will?

I don't know how to spell this out to you anymore.

I'm not saying MK9 or Injustice is still going to exist in 10 years. I'm saying the opposite. They won't exist competitively. They'll die for the same exact reasons I said Melee will eventually die by. If not in 10 years, later but inevitably, they'll be old consoles that won't work anymore, that aren't made anymore, and therefore can't be purchased for new players. Of course the tournament scene is going to die.

The difference is although the game dies, the community doesn't. The Capcom, NRS, and Namco communities just move onto the next game released, because the developers have an active interest in keeping the franchise alive, by adapting it for the times and releasing it on new hardware. Either by re-releasing old games, or releasing new competitively balanced games- either way, the community lives longer than the game.

When Melee dies, it's pretty much over. Unless Nintendo takes an interest in supporting the competitive scene, there aren't going to be new competitive Smash games to play. There's nowhere for the community to migrate to that still has the gameplay they love. They can't migrate to the newest iteration like other communities. Their lifespan is literally dictated by how long the hardware can hold up.

The very EXISTENCE of Project M is basically a recognition of this. In order to keep Melee going, they have to retrofit the newer games, because Nintendo isn't going to play ball and balance the new game for tournament players.

 

[legion666]

I don't know how to spell this out to you anymore.

I'm not saying MK9 or Injustice is still going to exist in 10 years. I'm saying the opposite. They won't exist competitively. They'll die for the same exact reasons I said Melee will eventually die by. If not in 10 years, later but inevitably, they'll be old consoles that won't work anymore, that aren't made anymore, and therefore can't be purchased for new players. Of course the tournament scene is going to die.

The difference is although the game dies, the community doesn't. The Capcom, NRS, and Namco communities just move onto the next game released, because the developers have an active interest in keeping the franchise alive, by adapting it for the times and releasing it on new hardware. Either by re-releasing old games, or releasing new competitively balanced games- either way, the community lives longer than the game.

When Melee dies, it's pretty much over. Unless Nintendo takes an interest in supporting the competitive scene, there aren't going to be new competitive Smash games to play. There's nowhere for the community to migrate to that still has the gameplay they love. They can't migrate to the newest iteration like other communities. Their lifespan is literally dictated by how long the hardware can hold up.

The very EXISTENCE of Project M is basically a recognition of this. In order to keep Melee going, they have to retrofit the newer games, because Nintendo isn't going to play ball and balance the new game for tournament players.

Well, no ones is to say they won't get a new game on a new hardwear in the future. Just like No one is to say that NRS will exist in 10 years. Things change. But one thing is for sure, the dedication these people put into their games keeps it alive for SOOOOOO long regardless of how things turn out to be. Our community could learn from that. If NRS went Midway right now, this community would die in 2 years! Because that is how long we support our game!

 

[ProudDisciple]

The fact that the Melee community is so dedicated deserves praise. I think it's great that EVO recognized their dedication and included Melee as part of the roster.