is sadira's instinct too good?

[Vagrant]

Cry harder.
It's the FGC way now.

The very fact that she has a double jump and a launching throw gives her all she'll probably need. If they do nerf instinct I think she'll still probably be fine.
People acting like her dirt is any dirtier than the rest of the roster are hilarious.

"Web and a dream" ?

Lol the fact that a sabrewulf player says that makes me want to laugh and vomit all over myself at the same time.

I'll have a better chance to see how she stacks up against good players of each character at Final Round this year. Till then I'm just going to shut up and play. What a concept.

 

[NLHE]

If you are referring to me as the sabrewulf player, nothing in any game ever made me cry for a nerf... I personally subscribe to - if you can't beat 'em, join 'em philosophy... Now, if you want to analyze the strengths of her instinct without opinion (minus Sadira is a peach, that was opinion), there you have it in 50 words or less. Is sabrewulf good and cheap, yes. Is he a good matchup against Sadira, yes. Relatively speaking. He can pressure her when she's knockdown at will, she can jump on his head all day long for free when he is on the ground kinda a trade off. If you really want my honest opinion, yes Sadira is the best in the game she has the most matchups, ofc that's just my opinion. I left my opinion out of it to be impartial, even though the tone of the post may have butthurt some Sadira mains/fans lol. Leave her how she is, no skin of my back.

 

[Vagrant]

If you are referring to me as the sabrewulf player, nothing in any game ever made me cry for a nerf....

I was not.

 

[NLHE]

Apologies then <3

 

[TakeAChance]

Is Sadira instinct to good?

She can option select counter breakers in combos, set up unbreakable combos, make any multihit move/shadow move unable to be shadow countered, counters all other deadly instincts, and jump cancel moves so you can use manuals like rabid doubles (except have the ability to switch between medium and heavy). It's a decent instinct, goes really well with her rediculous low arc jump/double jumps. How many times can she cross you up in the air making you change block directions, 3 or 4? Any anti air attempts lead to full combos. Sadira is a peach....

jump/crossup jump fierce, lp blade demon, web, rinse and repeat, is still unbreakable.

That setups is not unbreakable. It's entirely breakable after the jump fierce. The blade demon is completely breakable.

Opener (jump fierce) ~linker(blade demon, BREAKABLE), web (not breakable)


Not trying to be a dick, but there is still a ton of misinformation going around cause by mass paranoia. Jago, Sabrewulf, and now Sadira seems to be next on the list.

 

[Orochi]

Is it too good? Probably. It's certainly the best in the game no doubt, does she having no reliable wake up make up for it? Certainly not, on wake up you can just block and find your opening to get away or attack, something way easier than dealing with webs.

In my opinion I would change the start up to not be instant kinda like orchids cats, maybe a little faster.

I would change the manual links because they are not really like manuals, the timing is not really that strict, I went into practice mode, never used her before and could do them consistently after like 10 minutes. No other character in their instinct has such easy manuals, the closest thing is Jago and they still required some good timing.

I'd change the stun time on the webs to slightly shorter enough to where when she does a counter breaker, the web makes it safe (and that's really nice already) BUT she wouldn't be able to continue the combo with a shadow linker. As it is right now she has safe counter breakers that allow her to continue the combo if not baited.

I don't blame Sadira players for using these tools, if I played Sadira I would use the crap out of them also but own up to the fact that it is a pretty damn good instinct compared to the rest giving such a great comeback opportunity and even better when winning, give these tools to good players like Draman and KDD86 and it becomes REALLY tough to deal with.

And don't worry, filthierich said that he thinks her tools are fine so not expecting nerfs soon .

 

[NLHE]

That setups is not unbreakable. It's entirely breakable after the jump fierce. The blade demon is completely breakable.

Opener (jump fierce) ~linker(blade demon, BREAKABLE), web (not breakable)


Not trying to be a dick, but there is still a ton of misinformation going around cause by mass paranoia. Jago, Sabrewulf, and now Sadira seems to be next on the list.

No worries, but in fact, that is incorrect... The lp blade demon will be an opener. It is the same for every character - you can do a jump kick into an opener, combo. I will post a vid in 30 minutes. This is not speculation or theory. I think it was bastfree who posted the original clip showing this.

i.e. orchid does jumping fierce kick into qcf+fp.... You dont get the ender, you get the first hit of the ichi.

 

[NY_Jailhouse]

i make these threads because it gets people actually talking about the game btw
this game deserves to be talked about and it seems complaint threads are the only way to do it lol

 

[Hellbringer]

Im wondering if spinal will be showed on stream today, and maybe fulgore teaser...

 

[ShadowBeatz]

i make these threads because it gets people actually talking about the game btw

 

[Vagrant]

does she having no reliable wake up make up for it? Certainly not, on wake up you can just block and find your opening to get away or attack, something way easier than dealing with webs.

I'm sorry, what?

You do realize that after knock down she should be put into guess situations by the opponent right? Meaning if she choses to simply block, it's not just about. "Oh well I'll just block my way out of this and be on with the match" It's "Guess the mixup and if I'm wrong I'm eating another combo" Due to her bad wakeups, all of her wakeups can be safe jumped or option selected. Justin Wong saw this and immediately came up with an OS. meaning if she wakes up at all she's atomatically fucked. I have to guess how the opponent is going to mix me up. If I'm wrong I'm eating more damage. There's no getting away, there's no "finding an opening" unless I've already guessed the opponents mixup right.

People that say her lack of a significant wake up isn't a big deal, or that she can just wait for her turn to attack are not exploiting her correctly.

 

[Vagrant]

this game deserves to be talked about and it seems complaint threads are the only way to do it

Your half right.

 

[Orochi]

I'm sorry, what?

You do realize that after knock down she should be put into guess situations by the opponent right? Meaning if she choses to simply block, it's not just about. "Oh well I'll just block my way out of this and be on with the match" It's "Guess the mixup and if I'm wrong I'm eating another combo" Due to her bad wakeups, all of her wakeups can be safe jumped or option selected. Justin Wong saw this and immediately came up with an OS. meaning if she wakes up at all she's atomatically fucked. I have to guess how the opponent is going to mix me up. If I'm wrong I'm eating more damage. There's no getting away, there's no "finding an opening" unless I've already guessed the opponents mixup right.

People that say her lack of a significant wake up isn't a big deal, or that she can just wait for her turn to attack are not exploiting her correctly.

It's the same for everyone though just slightly worse for her, characters that have a reliable wake up can be baited and then punished (puddle punch, jagos, orchids uppercuts, sabres eclipse, etc.) so you still have to guess if you should wake up or not.

 

[TakeAChance]

There is still a ton of misinformation going around about these "Unbreakable" setups.

No worries, but in fact, that is incorrect... The lp blade demon will be an opener. It is the same for every character - you can do a jump kick into an opener, combo. I will post a vid in 30 minutes. This is not speculation or theory. I think it was bastfree who posted the original clip showing this.

i.e. orchid does jumping fierce kick into qcf+fp.... You dont get the ender, you get the first hit of the ichi.

Sorry, I read it wrong. I thought this was after a web.

In that case, yes, the jump heavy into blade demon would be unbreakable I believe.

HOWEVER, it's not a rinse and repeat. As soon as her opener is established, the combo is not unbreakable, even if you shadow widows bite.


JHK, LP Spin(opener), WEB ~ JHK ~ LP Spin (This should be breakable)

If it's not, (because there ARE a few setups that aren't) the damage should be in the low 20's, and her entire instinct duration will be used up.

 

[TakeAChance]

It's the same for everyone though just slightly worse for her, characters that have a reliable wake up can be baited and then punished (puddle punch, jagos, orchids uppercuts, sabres eclipse, etc.) so you still have to guess if you should wake up or not.

Sadira never gets to wakeup. There is no guess against the character.

 

[NLHE]

There is still a ton of misinformation going around about these "Unbreakable" setups.


Sorry, I read it wrong. I thought this was after a web.

In that case, yes, the jump heavy into blade demon would be unbreakable I believe.

HOWEVER, it's not a rinse and repeat. As soon as her opener is established, the combo is not unbreakable, even if you shadow widows bite.


JHK, LP Spin(opener), WEB ~ JHK ~ LP Spin (This should be breakable)

If it's not, (because there ARE a few setups that aren't) the damage should be in the low 20's, and her entire instinct duration will be used up.

hehe, nope still wrong.... combo one is only breakable during the bladespin linker at the end, combo two is only breakable during the lp auto double at the end(manual can be substituted here). You should try it....

If having problems with vid try http://sdrv.ms/1f9Kc5F

 

[Orochi]

Sadira never gets to wakeup. There is no guess against the character.

In any case, I stay firm this does not make up to her and her amazing instinct.

 

[Vagrant]

It's the same for everyone though just slightly worse for her, characters that have a reliable wake up can be baited and then punished (puddle punch, jagos, orchids uppercuts, sabres eclipse, etc.) so you still have to guess if you should wake up or not.

They have the option to wake up.
You don't have to bait her wake up, you can completely negate it because her best wakeup (EX recluse)has 4 frames of start up and only the first 2 of them are invincible. the move is active on the 5th frame and active for only that one 5th frame. So when you knock sadira down. You can take away her options by safe jumping her or OSing her and going into whatever mix up you want.

 

[TakeAChance]

hehe still nope.... combo one is only breakable during the bladespin linker at the end, combo two is only breakable during the lp auto double at the end(manual can be substituted here). You should try it....

Yea, the ender is breakable, and that shadow spin is breakable too (since the shadow widows bite got patched).

I honestly don't know how they would fix that.

You can't change the web to a linker or an opener because the jump heavy will reset the situation both times anyway...

I still don't think a 2 bar 60 percent combo that needs a jump heavy / naked web to initiate is too op anyways.

 

[TakeAChance]

They have the option to wake up.
You don't have to bait her wake up, you can completely negate it because her best wakeup (EX recluse)has 4 frames of start up and only the first 2 of them are invincible. the move is active on the 5th frame and active for only that one 5th frame. So when you knock sadira down. You can take away her options by safe jumping her or OSing her and going into whatever mix up you want.

She falls victim to the classic Throw/NJ mixups.

 

[Orochi]

She fails victim to the classic Throw/NJ mixups.

Good.

 

[Vagrant]

In any case, I stay firm this does not make up to her and her amazing instinct.

And THIS is why the FGC can't have nice things.

Your talking about balance issues for a character that you don't even fully understand or play against properly. When presented with knowledge that completely alters what you thought about the character before, instead of re evaluating, you cling to your uninformed oppinion.

It's sad

 

[Orochi]

And THIS is why the FGC can't have nice things.

Your talking about balance issues for a character that you don't even fully understand or play against properly. When presented with knowledge that completely alters what you thought about the character before, instead of re evaluating, you cling to your uninformed oppinion.

It's sad

Man i know how to fight against her lol I beat Draman and KDD consistently, I pointed out the things that make her instinct much better than the others, own up to the fact that her shit is amazing and move on. One knockdown may or may not get you the advantage and that goes for everyone really.

 

[NLHE]

Yea, the ender is breakable, and that shadow spin is breakable too (since the shadow widows bite got patched).

I honestly don't know how they would fix that.

You can't change the web to a linker or an opener because the jump heavy will reset the situation both times anyway...

I still don't think a 2 bar 60 percent combo that needs a jump heavy / naked web to initiate is too op anyways.

I'm not trying to come down on you, but the ender is not breakable because I never went opener to ender. I'm not saying it's OP (landing a jumping heavy kick with Sadira is not hard to do btw and you don't have to be already in instinct to start those combos), I just said she her instinct give her access to unbreakable combos, as well as the other stuff I listed. Just want to clear up that so I'm not misinforming people or seem paranoid

 

[TakeAChance]

Honestly, her 60 percent unblockable shenanigans have to go, but in both cases, they are showing the absolute maximum damage in each situation.

If you do any setup in this thread, and look at the combo meter you can read a break. The exception is the manual setup at the end of NLHE's setup.

In the video he does a light auto double because he HAS to. If he uses any other auto it is going to drop the opponent out of the combo.

Looks like he has quite a bit of space for the manual tho, which is going to drop the damage slightly.