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Question Ending Zatanna Combos and Traps

KillaGthug4Life

KillaGthug4Life

Believe in Magic yet? Let us Dance
Because Zatanna's normals and attacks have really crapy range, sometimes her pressure game can be difficult to use because it's a little difficult for her to get in. Usually she doesn't really need to get in because of her amazing zoning game, but I really think Zatanna's pressure after she ends a combo is being seriously under-used. I know that Zatanna's best game play comes from her zoning and traps, so what traps and pressure do you use when finishing a combo?

So far these are the ones I can think of and use:
  • Deg and Mr. Mileena's smoke and mirror tech for a vortex every time a character is in Puppet Master MB. Still working on pulling it off consistently.
  • End a combo with F2,1 and follow up with a j1 then either B1,U3 or B2,1. Or even 112 Multi Kick. I find this is effective but sometimes they can armor, perry, or occasionally jump out of the trap.
  • 223, Fire Kiss MB, Trait.
  • 223, Teleport Behind, F3 (cross up)
  • F2,1,1 Trait.
  • Trait, (1, 2, or 3), teleport behind MB, 112. Or teleport behind, F3.
I Feel like I'm missing out on a lot of her tech and traps, especially when she puts people in Puppet Master MB. Suggestions?

@Mr. Mileena
@deg222
@AspyxiaDyslexia-
@Pan1cMode
 
Pan1cMode

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Ending combos in regular bf3 teleport behind, f3 (MB depending) also works wonders.


For the vortex, this is the smoke and mirrors version I use;

non-cross up
ji2~u3~d2, b23, ji2, d2, b3, dash, 112~bf3(MB)
ji2~u3~d2, 3~interact, b3, ji2, ji2, 112~bf3(MB)

cross up
ji1, 3~bf1(MB), b3, dash, ji3, 112~bf3(MB)
ji1, 3~interact, b3, ji2, ji2, 112~bf3(MB)

After bf3 (MB) you can also; du, du, j2~u3~d2 then either b2 or b1 for full combo (another type of vortex). If near an interactable bounce this can net 40%+ and a reset for one bar. On larger characters you can also go for a cross up/non cross up jump in after the double j2.

After f21 if they like to mash, go for a standing 3 into another full combo. They shouldn't be able to dash/jump/parry/reversal at all :).
 
EMPRESS_SunFire

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
For the smoke & mirrors vortex i usually for the crossup version do j1~11U3 D2 B3.... On block 11U3 is +1 so it gives me a free D1~multi kicks

Also i LOVE canceling my strings into MB rings in the corner that are overhead & +9 on block. 1,1,2~MB rings, on hit i can dash forward & F3 for a crossup, on block i get a free 3~multi kicks/MB rings

End combos in 2,2,3~teleport behind F3 for a crossup
When i hit a 1,1,D3 i also go for a F3 for a crossup or B3(since the motions are very similar i play with them)
 
KillaGthug4Life

KillaGthug4Life

Believe in Magic yet? Let us Dance
AspyxiaDyslexia- said:
For the smoke & mirrors vortex i usually for the crossup version do j1~11U3 D2 B3.... On block 11U3 is +1 so it gives me a free D1~multi kicks

Also i LOVE canceling my strings into MB rings in the corner that are overhead & +9 on block. 1,1,2~MB rings, on hit i can dash forward & F3 for a crossup, on block i get a free 3~multi kicks/MB rings

End combos in 2,2,3~teleport behind F3 for a crossup
When i hit a 1,1,D3 i also go for a F3 for a crossup or B3(since the motions are very similar i play with them)
Click to expand...
I haven't tried it out, but theoretically if the MB rings on block is +9... could you go right into a meter burn chip trap? Similar to Skarlet's with her dash cancel on enhanced daggers? If so then that could be a really intense tool for Zatanna corner pressure. Also, has anyone tried her teleport MB chip trap string? Is that a liable tool or too easy to be poked out of?
 
EMPRESS_SunFire

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
KillaGthug4Life said:
I haven't tried it out, but theoretically if the MB rings on block is +9... could you go right into a meter burn chip trap? Similar to Skarlet's with her dash cancel on enhanced daggers? If so then that could be a really intense tool for Zatanna corner pressure. Also, has anyone tried her teleport MB chip trap string? Is that a liable tool or too easy to be poked out of?
Click to expand...
Yeah, i have won a lot of matches for looping 3~MBrings on block
 
Mr. Mileena

Mr. Mileena

Champion
KillaGthug4Life said:
I haven't tried it out, but theoretically if the MB rings on block is +9... could you go right into a meter burn chip trap? Similar to Skarlet's with her dash cancel on enhanced daggers? If so then that could be a really intense tool for Zatanna corner pressure. Also, has anyone tried her teleport MB chip trap string? Is that a liable tool or too easy to be poked out of?
Click to expand...
No you can't. It pushes them back to where another S3 misses. If not done (mb ring) at the very closest range, s3 barely hits, but they can backdash still. Might be good in corner, but not anywhere else. You can probably use it and teleport or walk away which is what I do at times.
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
If they're tranced, you can do nj2~levi to reset the combo, then you could do levi-cancel into an overhead or you could do levi-teleport behind so they have to block the other way. Alternatively you could do nj2~levi-cancel j2 which will then reset and cancel the j2 into b1 or b2.
 
KillaGthug4Life

KillaGthug4Life

Believe in Magic yet? Let us Dance
AspyxiaDyslexia- said:
Yeah, i have won a lot of matches for looping 3~MBrings on block
Click to expand...
Is the +9 enough frame advantage to follow up with a 11D3 and then F3 crossup?

If they're tranced I like to end combos with j2 and then the slightest pause and follow up with B2, 1 which is a overhead, low string so very difficult to block, and very little time to poke out of. Good way to throw them off.
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
KillaGthug4Life said:
Is the +9 enough frame advantage to follow up with a 11D3 and then F3 crossup?

If they're tranced I like to end combos with j2 and then the slightest pause and follow up with B2, 1 which is a overhead, low string so very difficult to block, and very little time to poke out of. Good way to throw them off.
Click to expand...
No because of the pushback of mb ring on block.
 
EMPRESS_SunFire

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
KillaGthug4Life said:
Is the +9 enough frame advantage to follow up with a 11D3 and then F3 crossup?

If they're tranced I like to end combos with j2 and then the slightest pause and follow up with B2, 1 which is a overhead, low string so very difficult to block, and very little time to poke out of. Good way to throw them off.
Click to expand...
No, not even in the corner :(
 
KillaGthug4Life

KillaGthug4Life

Believe in Magic yet? Let us Dance
AspyxiaDyslexia- said:
No, not even in the corner :(
Click to expand...
Awe, lame. But I guess she could do some chip with ending a corner combo in F2,1. Follow up with your 112 MB rings trap, then 3 Multi Kick MB. Serious good shit, I'm definitely gonna use it. How much does MB rings do on block? Cause I know Multi Kick MB does around 10%.
 
EMPEROR PRYCE

EMPEROR PRYCE

WAR SEASON "THE WEAK EXPOSED!"
My pressure strings w zatanna are quite odd compared to others. I use levitate and teleport cancels very often to keep my opponent guessing.

Instant jump 1 xx levi xx d2 is a very good fuzzy set up. If they block and aren't mashin d2 a ji1 will cross up. Or u can do 223 tele away.

It all depends how much respect u receive. U have to thrive on whiff punishes to make ur opponent scared to press a button.

The more respect I get, the crazier I go. Period. Lol
 
Mr. Mileena

Mr. Mileena

Champion
I really don't think this character has pressure outside of 112 and d1.

112 is neutral, and 6 frame pokes will beat out anything she does after since 1 is a high and d1 is 7 frames.

Ex teleport while it being 0 frames recov, still has startup and can be hit out.
After you do 112, you can't do another 112 since they can duck.
You either do d1 kicks, dive kick, d1 divekick, all which is pretty much not guaranteed. Dive kick on block = punishable as well.

This character is mainly set ups, gimmicks, mixups, and zoning.

I really wouldn't try to keep pressure with this character going, as I don't see it possible.

Again, 112, d1, ex teleport all help, but still doesn't compare to pressure of other characters.
MB ring is +9, but the pushback pretty much pushes them too far back

Standing 3 is -4 on block alone.
Levitate into air teleport should always be uppercutted unless you spend meter on it, in which divekick is just 6 frames.

any pressure this character has is pretty much all gimmicks.

d1 kicks into d1 ex kicks (they expect you to mb it and don't react), though they should be holding down and mashing d1 to catch this trap.
d1 cross over teleport etc.

I think going in for pressure will hurt your success with zatanna. She actually has a strong footsie game despite her bad walk speed.
I think her standing 1, 2, and 3 are okay. But every other starting normal (except f3 at times can be used as a gimmick) everything else is too slow to be viable. B1, B2, F2 (better to use 3), etc.

The best pressure imo, is her corner trait game (HUGE pressure imo), vortexes, and when your opponent has controls reversed.
 
ChatterBox

ChatterBox

Searching for an alt.
Midscreen I'll end in F21xxTeleBheind then throw. Next time I'll mb tele and 223 for a frame trap.

Every once in a while on block I'll cancel into trait, then use the (any normal)xxTele to get out of it immediatley. It consfuses the heck out of people the first time they see it!
 
Mr. Mileena

Mr. Mileena

Champion
Dr Morganstien said:
Midscreen I'll end in F21xxTeleBheind then throw. Next time I'll mb tele and 223 for a frame trap.

Every once in a while on block I'll cancel into trait, then use the (any normal)xxTele to get out of it immediatley. It consfuses the heck out of people the first time they see it!
Click to expand...
Yes, outside of combos. She really has no pressure.
Ending in f21 tele behind is very very good.
Becareful Exing the teleport because the combo will continue since it recovers so fast!!
Try ending in f21 and jumping to them, tele behind in 112 or d1, or f21 ex slow ball.
 
ChatterBox

ChatterBox

Searching for an alt.
Mr. Mileena said:
Yes, outside of combos. She really has no pressure.
Ending in f21 tele behind is very very good.
Becareful Exing the teleport because the combo will continue since it recovers so fast!!
Try ending in f21 and jumping to them, tele behind in 112 or d1, or f21 ex slow ball.
Click to expand...
I did indeed keep to combo going at first! My hands usually get ahead of my brain with Z, usually resulting in drops.
I've gotta try the slow fireball one, wish there were more uses for it.
Next I've got to master the jump 2xxLevixxd2 I've not got the timing down enough to keep the combo going.
 
Pan1cMode

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Dr Morganstien said:
I've gotta try the slow fireball one, wish there were more uses for it.
Next I've got to master the jump 2xxLevixxd2 I've not got the timing down enough to keep the combo going.
Click to expand...
If you use j2~u3~d2 mid combo it actually resets the combo regardless. If you mean starting a combo with it, don't press u3 till the first j2 has connected.
 
Pan1cMode

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Mr. Mileena said:
wait what???
U3? you mean UU3 (levitate?) or U3 normal
Click to expand...
u3 as in levitate. As you're already in the air, you cancel your j2 with levitate (u3) then cancel levitate into another j2 (d2).

This is the notation I've been using for levi cancels because it's fairly simple and makes logical sense. It's also easier/neater than writing 'levi cancel' mid combo.
 
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