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Breaking down pushblock

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I want to talk about how pushblock is good for some characters and not that great for others.

Pushblock costs 1 bar and pushes your away to jump distance at neutral, this is useful when being pressured in certain matchups e.g Bane is almost out of venom and tries to pressure you one last time and you pushblock him out. This can also be used to bait Bane into going lvl 3 whereas he could've planned to just sit it out until he gets venom back, it can create a train of thought of the likes of "damn he just pushed me back and I NEED to get in and my venom's almost out at lvl 2" where as before he could be thinking " I'll just do this double punch, pushblock him away and closer to the corner and wait 3 more seconds for the cooldown, I've gained ground and can start a venom cycle again.

Another example can be used against KF, if you block a slide you know there are mixups after you block one, d1 slide, parry or another slide to catch a backdash, maybe even a F3 if the KF player thinks you're baiting the parry. In that situation, if you don't want to enter the mixup because you're keeping her away as a zoner or have the lifelead with very little time left, you can pushblock her out. This can lead into an interesting scenario where if the KF player slides in again, you will have another chance at punishing a slide by neutral or back jumping it, maybe MB B3 in and cancelling it, pushblock can create a lot of very nice and baitable thoughts because of its defensive nature.

Other characters can also much more heavily abuse it, Sinestro, Raven, Deathstroke, all these characters have a basic mixup after a pushblock because they are zoners with the ability to catch dashes, the type of movement this game is built around and that gives them a distinct advantage when it comes to abusing this game's mechanic over other characters.

Every time they pushblock you you must respect the fact they can punish almost any movement with fear blast/soul crush/gunshot so after pushing you away, you must also let them back off even more of risk being hit. Now these characters all gain different boons from you disrespecting them after pushblock, Sinestro punishes you for 8% and has time to back off or charge his trait a little, Deathstroke can back off a little, Raven though can hit confirm soul crush and MB it for a full combo that will send you fullscreen and get her into trait mode which will then keep you fullscreen and chip you.

Then you must account for walking back, Sinestro and Raven have very good walkback speeds with very decent backdashes so in reality, a pushblock entitles them to breathing room and a free 50/50 with great reward, possibly game changing for Raven.

Then there are some characters like Joker that get to get something out to stop you from going in, teeth for example, which people too hasty with their movement can be pushblocked into or as simply a deterent to getting in, teeth into teeth into teeth, etc. Joker in particular establishes his own wakeup pressure game against overly aggressive characters like Bane due to the nature of teeth combined with pushblock, lay them down, wait for a button press, cash in combo. MMH can do this in a similar way with his orbs, Zod with his air Zod balls or even trait up, Harley to start her excelent ( against some ) zoning game. Another character that falls in this category is Lex with his trait and probes, mines I find are a bit too slow.

If a character is also being pressured badly while having superior footsies then pushblock is a way to reset the tempo of the footsie game, if Batman is pressuring Green lantern, GL has way better footsies than Batman with B13, but Batman is now in and he has bats out. In that situation, a pushblock would both strip Batman of his bats and reset the situation back to a neutral game where GL is dominant with his B13 and max lift range.

Other characters like to force pushblock up to a degree, like Doomsday, Aquaman.

Doomsday relies on MB venom to get in most of the time, he loves trading meter with you because it means you won't win clashes, if your character is meter dependent then you won't have meter, that is an indirect way by which pushblock benefits Doomsday, up to a point. If Doomsday is left with no meter he has a harder time getting in and he doesn't like being left without. If a character is even on meter then pushblock is neutral to him, if he has more meter then it is heavily beneficial while if he has only one bar and his opponent has more, he will be left at jump distance with no meter, unable to properly clash or do combos while the opponent will still have meter for their combos, specials and clashes. The same applies to Aquaman with MB trident rush and Lobo with hook charge.

I will probably update this in the future, just wanted to expand on the pushblock mechanic.
 
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Protagonist_1

Champion
You should do one for bounce cancels because they are really underused. I'll be sure to read the rest of this article when I can.:)
 

Red Venom

The Main Man of TYM
One thing I'm wondering but haven't tried. You know how in SSFIV people will Focus Attack absorb a hit then cancel it with a dash. Has anyone tried this with a bounce cancel? I know it's not related to the OP but I didn't know where else to post it.
 

LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
There is also the fact that Venom can go through pushblock. For example if you think Bane is going to mash out a Double punch after you block to keep armor, but instead does D1xxDouble punch his trait will blow through you pushblocking a normal and punish your pushblock attempt. It's rare to see in a match as far as i've seen, but it can happen.

Also I laughed to myself on your description of the Bane player uping his Venom after getting pushblocked to try to keep up preasure becasue I'm guilty of having done that lol.
 

Protagonist_1

Champion
One thing I'm wondering but haven't tried. You know how in SSFIV people will Focus Attack absorb a hit then cancel it with a dash. Has anyone tried this with a bounce cancel? I know it's not related to the OP but I didn't know where else to post it.
Do you mean MBDC (Meter Burn Dash Cancel) or bounce cancel? A MBDC is when you just do an armoured b3 or f3 and cancel it. A bounce cancel is when you cancel a combo into an armoured b3 or f3. Both of which can be held and cancelled.

Doing a MBDC can be quite effective against interactables and can be used as a punish or to reduce the damage if getting hit is unavoidable. A good example is the water hose in the Aquaman stage used by gadget and acrobatic characters. If you know they are going to go for it, you can just a mbb3 (or mbf3), take the hit (but reduced the damage by 50%), cancel it, and punish for a full combo. A lot of interatables can be punished this way as well, while some have too quick recovery for this.

As for bounce cancels, you can cancel almost any combo into a mbb3 or f3. It can also be held, or dash cancelled. To be honest, I don't see much use for it, but it can be used to blow up a push block (I guess this could be useful if a flash player used trait, and knew a player was going to push block. But that's a tough read). It can also be used to bait punishes in gaps.

I guess a good scenario should be Green Laterns b1*3. It has a gap and can be parried (let's use batman as an example). If the GL player knows the batman player will prarry it, he can just do a bounce cancel and hold it, bait the parry, dash foward, then punish while he's recovering. However, this is such a huge gamble for two bars, and the game isn't to that level yet in my opinion. :(

TL;DR: Do you mean MBDC (Meter Burn Dash Cancel) or bounce cancel? A MBDC is when you just do an armoured b3 or f3 and cancel it. A bounce cancel is when you cancel a combo into an armoured b3 or f3. Both of which can be held and cancelled.
 

Red Venom

The Main Man of TYM
Doing a MBDC can be quite effective against interactables and can be used as a punish or to reduce the damage if getting hit is unavoidable. A good example is the water hose in the Aquaman stage used by gadget and acrobatic characters. If you know they are going to go for it, you can just a mbb3 (or mbf3), take the hit (but reduced the damage by 50%), cancel it, and punish for a full combo. A lot of interatables can be punished this way as well, while some have too quick recovery for this.
This.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
I want to talk about how pushblock is good for some characters and not that great for others.

Pushblock costs 1 bar and pushes your away to jump distance at neutral, this is useful when being pressured in certain matchups e.g Bane is almost out of venom and tries to pressure you one last time and you pushblock him out. This can also be used to bait Bane into going lvl 3 whereas he could've planned to just sit it out until he gets venom back, it can create a train of thought of the likes of "damn he just pushed me back and I NEED to get in and my venom's almost out at lvl 2" where as before he could be thinking " I'll just do this double punch, pushblock him away and closer to the corner and wait 3 more seconds for the cooldown, I've gained ground and can start a venom cycle again.



I will probably update this in the future, just wanted to expand on the pushblock mechanic.
Ehhh....
I wouldn't waste your bar against Bane unless you know you'll get the timing right. I will admit its really good against Bane using charge because for some reason it puts him even further back, but honestly if you mistime it you'll be wasting a bar and he'll just armor through it anyways, or you'll be down a bar and he can just let that level 2 cooldown because you've just put yourself at jump distance against someone with a d.1/d.2 wall and is the 10th (give or take 2) fastest character even on level 3 debuff. Meter is better used for MB b.3 against Bane.

Other than that, a beautiful analysis and very well put. My only problem is the differing opinion on using it against Bane, but as a Bane player I can't stress enough how good it is for running down venom cooldown time.
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
As for bounce cancels, you can cancel almost any combo into a mbb3 or f3. It can also be held, or dash cancelled. To be honest, I don't see much use for it, but it can be used to blow up a push block (I guess this could be useful if a flash player used trait, and knew a player was going to push block. But that's a tough read). It can also be used to bait punishes in gaps.
Did you know you can cancel any jump attack into a mbf3 or b3? It's great for blowing up pushblock. They still waste their meter so you are -1 bar of meter vs your opponent.

Also, kind of unrelated but you can cancel any jump normal into special and it will come out instantly when you land.
 

Error

DF2+R2
There is also the fact that Venom can go through pushblock. For example if you think Bane is going to mash out a Double punch after you block to keep armor, but instead does D1xxDouble punch his trait will blow through you pushblocking a normal and punish your pushblock attempt. It's rare to see in a match as far as i've seen, but it can happen.

Also I laughed to myself on your description of the Bane player uping his Venom after getting pushblocked to try to keep up preasure becasue I'm guilty of having done that lol.
You can't even pushblock Bane's D1 unless he's got you cornered for some reason.
 

GGA Saucy Jack

The artist formerly known as ImNewbieSauce
There is also the fact that Venom can go through pushblock. For example if you think Bane is going to mash out a Double punch after you block to keep armor, but instead does D1xxDouble punch his trait will blow through you pushblocking a normal and punish your pushblock attempt. It's rare to see in a match as far as i've seen, but it can happen.

Also I laughed to myself on your description of the Bane player uping his Venom after getting pushblocked to try to keep up preasure becasue I'm guilty of having done that lol.

Yes this happens. Grand Finals of GBS two weeks ago, I pissed away a bar that Max just "Baned" right through. Pushblock against Bane is a bill.

Useful in other situations though.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Ehhh....
I wouldn't waste your bar against Bane unless you know you'll get the timing right. I will admit its really good against Bane using charge because for some reason it puts him even further back, but honestly if you mistime it you'll be wasting a bar and he'll just armor through it anyways, or you'll be down a bar and he can just let that level 2 cooldown because you've just put yourself at jump distance against someone with a d.1/d.2 wall and is the 10th (give or take 2) fastest character even on level 3 debuff. Meter is better used for MB b.3 against Bane.

Other than that, a beautiful analysis and very well put. My only problem is the differing opinion on using it against Bane, but as a Bane player I can't stress enough how good it is for running down venom cooldown time.
You shouldn't mistime it, if used correctly you use up 2 seconds of venom time. I know this works because I do it with every Bane I play when I set up teeth traps, what you say only applies to d2/d1 cancels. There are also lots of ways to blow up Bane when he's stalling with d2.
 

Immortal Kombat

almost moderate success
I know alot of people make the mistake of using pushblock when DD has trait on. It just gives DD a full combo and you lose a bar for no reason
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
You shouldn't mistime it, if used correctly you use up 2 seconds of venom time. I know this works because I do it with every Bane I play when I set up teeth traps, what you say only applies to d2/d1 cancels. There are also lots of ways to blow up Bane when he's stalling with d2.
Some people do. Not like it never happens.
Also you can't pushblock max distance moves like d.2 and d.1 and f.2.d and 11 and whatnot, hell you can be pretty close and f.1 someone and they won't be able to pushblock until you're elbow deep.

Theres also many ways to blow you up for trying to blow up d.2.
 

shinobispectre

Heart of A Champion, Skill of a Noob :P
Is pushblock baitable? Actually nvm since its not like a Burst feature... Does it work on air to ground moves? Like a grappler moving with belly splash... can you pushblock that?
 

kaseyk

Apprentice
Hawkgirl can wing evade punish pushblock from a few strings and mbbc will absorb the pushblock for every character .

You can anticipate pushblock setups like joker teeth or lex mines , or when you have corner pressure going .

As a hawkgirl player theres few situations i use pushblock , again jokers teeth setups in corner lol only half reliable free up to get out for hg and to stop near impossible to block things like batmans bats + j2 crossup . It's setups like those few examples which without pushblock it could be an oh shit gg moment lol .

Definitely a great tool and personally i'm happy it's there to use .
 

Protagonist_1

Champion
Did you know you can cancel any jump attack into a mbf3 or b3? It's great for blowing up pushblock. They still waste their meter so you are -1 bar of meter vs your opponent.

Also, kind of unrelated but you can cancel any jump normal into special and it will come out instantly when you land.
I had no idea that you could bounce cancel from a jump in lol. When it comes to canceling a normal from a jump in, I knew about it with Bane (cancel jump ins into grabs) but though it only applied to him.

On another note, I was watching one of my older vids from the demo, and batman could do standing 3 into bounce cancel but it wouldn't combo. Now it does in the retail version, not sure if it was patched in, or made like that initially.
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
I had no idea that you could bounce cancel from a jump in lol. When it comes to canceling a normal from a jump in, I knew about it with Bane (cancel jump ins into grabs) but though it only applied to him.

On another note, I was watching one of my older vids from the demo, and batman could do standing 3 into bounce cancel but it wouldn't combo. Now it does in the retail version, not sure if it was patched in, or made like that initially.
I was most surprised that you can cancel jump 3's into specials. You can get a quick overhead>low that's hard to block or overhead>overhead with the mbf3 cancel.