2 questions about 2 myths

[GGA Saucy Jack]

I hope this thread can stay open, and I hope this thread can stay civil. I have been curious about these two questions I am about to ask for a long time. I guess I just want to understand what I am missing. If I am missing something, I accept that, and will be happy to learn about it to fill my knowledge gap.

A lot of members in this community like to use the argument of:

"bro, just play (insert random game), it doesn't have this problem."

But random game has it's own set of problems that we choose to ignore for the purposes of bitching about MK or IGAU. So I ask:




1) where did this myth come from that MK and Injustice are the only games with balance issues? The amount of games where half the cast is just plain not viable is astounding. Not specific to this game, or this genre even! Call of duty has been a competitive powerhouse for years but every single game only has 1, maybe 2 load outs useable at the highest level. Balance issues happen to everyone.

2) where did this myth come from that only MK and Injustice have things like character specific hitbox weirdness, or goofy stage mechanics? Your gold standard...AE...has setups that only work in the left corner. Or watch Makoto guides, and check out all the weird shit she can glitch against certain characters. This isn't NRS specific. Mechanics issues happen to everyone.



I am completely understanding that no one is perfect. There has never been, nor will there be, a perfect game. And I'm ok with that. It's a game, and if I have fun playing it, then it's all good with me. I am just confused as to why we seem to love to bring other games up as a talking point, when in reality, they have just as many problems, if not more, and yet that's the argument for "why MK and IGAU suck".

 

[Chokeapotamus]

Awesome point--FPS multiplayers are almost always ridiculously imbalanced.
If you do not buy the game at midnight launch and spend the next 48 hours straight playing through and leveling up to unlock the effective weapons, you are in for a mess. It becomes almost impossible to level up when opponents memorize the maps and have crazy-ass, silenced SMGs that have the range of a sniper rifle and can outdamage a machine gun with a single burst...SMH.
At least in FGs you can put in the work and learn stuff even while getting your ass handed to you. If you can't get points in shooters, you're SOL.

 

[RM Truth]

This %100. If people think that Injustice is unbalanced. They should try picking up games like Marvel 3(Zero, Morrigan, and Virgil) or Blazblue(Hakumen, Lichtie, and Taokaka) if they want to know what it's like to fight a really lopsided MU. Games over the years have had a select few characters that are either better than the rest, or only have 1 or 2 bad MUs. It's something that players just learn to deal with. I'm sure once Killer Instinct really starts to get going there will be one or two characters in that game that people will start complaining about.

 

[testyourpatience]

I hope this thread can stay open, and I hope this thread can stay civil.

and i hope to sprout little pink wings and fly away

A lot of members in this community like to use the argument of:

"bro, just play (insert random game), it doesn't have this problem."

But random game has it's own set of problems that we choose to ignore for the purposes of bitching about MK or IGAU. So I ask:

1) where did this myth come from that MK and Injustice are the only games with balance issues? The amount of games where half the cast is just plain not viable is astounding. Not specific to this game, or this genre even! Call of duty has been a competitive powerhouse for years but every single game only has 1, maybe 2 load outs useable at the highest level. Balance issues happen to everyone.

you're probably talking about sf. all games have this insane balance issue, but the sf community doesn't seem to care. they actually embrace the imbalance. remember when people complained about vanilla sagat and seth? and the rest of the community said he's fine and others need to level up? what happened later? capcom confessed those characters "turned out more powerful than they intended, but really good players can still beat them." people just don't like mk and injustice but they're too chicken shit to admit it and have to come up with another reason like pointing out one of its problems.

2) where did this myth come from that only MK and Injustice have things like character specific hitbox weirdness, or goofy stage mechanics? Your gold standard...AE...has setups that only work in the left corner. Or watch Makoto guides, and check out all the weird shit she can glitch against certain characters. This isn't NRS specific. Mechanics issues happen to everyone.

not to mention they've updated the game a million times, which is an admission that they can't get it right. again, idk what it is with all this sf crap.

 

[Tony at Home]

I used to play Magic the Gathering (still do sometimes) and if you are familiar with Magic the rules are simple.

1) The actual rules of the game are really simple, and can be learned in about 5 minutes.

2) Any of the rules can be broken or ignored based on whats on any card played.

Injustice is balanced a similar way. Every character in this game, in some way has something that completely breaks the traditional rules of fighting games.

The same cant be said for many other FGs such as Street Fighter, Tekken, or Virtua Fighter- those are more like poker- the cards/characters play with the rules, they dont define them.

Its easy for people to look at the rule-breaking nature of characters and automatically assume its broken, rather than a part of a system balanced on the basis of all characters being broken in some way.

-Plato, verse 48. "Discourse on thine Balance of thy Battle-entertainment"

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

I hope this thread can stay open, and I hope this thread can stay civil. I have been curious about these two questions I am about to ask for a long time. I guess I just want to understand what I am missing. If I am missing something, I accept that, and will be happy to learn about it to fill my knowledge gap.

A lot of members in this community like to use the argument of:

"bro, just play (insert random game), it doesn't have this problem."

But random game has it's own set of problems that we choose to ignore for the purposes of bitching about MK or IGAU. So I ask:




1) where did this myth come from that MK and Injustice are the only games with balance issues? The amount of games where half the cast is just plain not viable is astounding. Not specific to this game, or this genre even! Call of duty has been a competitive powerhouse for years but every single game only has 1, maybe 2 load outs useable at the highest level. Balance issues happen to everyone.

2) where did this myth come from that only MK and Injustice have things like character specific hitbox weirdness, or goofy stage mechanics? Your gold standard...AE...has setups that only work in the left corner. Or watch Makoto guides, and check out all the weird shit she can glitch against certain characters. This isn't NRS specific. Mechanics issues happen to everyone.



I am completely understanding that no one is perfect. There has never been, nor will there be, a perfect game. And I'm ok with that. It's a game, and if I have fun playing it, then it's all good with me. I am just confused as to why we seem to love to bring other games up as a talking point, when in reality, they have just as many problems, if not more, and yet that's the argument for "why MK and IGAU suck".

ehhh... but inj has fundamental issues that games like ae, kof et cetera do not. controller issues, input bugs. and you hit box thing? not even comparable man. not even close. u realize how hard it is to setup some of those things? where in in just all u have to do is just dash after a knockdown to reverse wakeups. inj has fundamental flaws were as ae kof et cetera do not...

 

[Vulcan Hades]

I'm sorry but I have played a lot of fighting games and the hitbox interactions in NRS games are weird and really atrocious. It's one of the only things I really hate about MK9 and Injustice. Injustice has a lot of stance specific AND state specific combos and I still don't think many are aware of how much specific things can get. For example: If your character has a chain, that chain may or may not combo if you hit someone out of their startup or recovery frames. This means that your punish attempt is never guaranteed and you might get blown up for trying to punish someone. In Street Fighter the character specific combos are only due to the hittable boxes being different which is perfectly normal. But there are no inconsistencies like this in the other fighters I play.

This is a big issue with NRS games that has already been discussed and it was already been said that it was unfixable because it was due to the engine using 3D hitboxes instead of 2D, stance switching etc. If it's still in MK10 though I will not play it.

 

[RM Truth]

I used to play Magic the Gathering (still do sometimes) and if you are familiar with Magic there rules are simple.

1) The actual rules of the game are really simple, and can be learned in about 5 minutes.

2) Any of the rules can be broken or ignored based on whats on any card played.

Injustice is balanced a similar way. Every character in this game, in some way has something that completely breaks the traditional rules of fighting games.

The same cant be said for many other FGs such as Street Fighter, Tekken, or Virtua Fighter- those are more like poker- the cards/characters play with the rules, they dont define them.

Its easy for people to look at the rule-breaking nature of characters and automatically assume its broken, rather than a part of a system balanced on the basis of all characters being broken in some way.

-Plato, verse 48. "Discourse on thine Balance of thy Battle-entertainment"

I understand what you are saying, but couldn't you use that logic with Akuma's air fireball? That's clearly a move that no one else in the game possesses.

I'm sorry but I have played a lot of fighting games and the hitbox interactions in NRS games are weird and really atrocious. It's one of the only things I really hate about MK9 and Injustice. Injustice has a lot of stance specific AND state specific combos and I still don't think many are aware of how much specific things can get. For example: If your character has a chain, that chain may or may not combo if you hit someone out of their startup or recovery frames. This means that your punish attempt is never guaranteed and you might get blown up for trying to punish someone. In Street Fighter the character specific combos are only due to the hittable boxes being different which is perfectly normal. But there are no inconsistencies like this.

This is a big issue with NRS games that has already been discussed and it was already been said that it was unfixable because it was due to the engine using 3D hitboxes instead of 2D, stance switching etc. If it's still in MK10 though I will not play it.

Most anime fighters have combos that only work on crouching opponents. Wouldn't that be considered a state specific combo?

 

[RM Truth]

ehhh... but inj has fundamental issues that games like ae, kof et cetera do not. controller issues, input bugs. and you hit box thing? not even comparable man. not even close. u realize how hard it is to setup some of those things? where in in just all u have to do is just dash after a knockdown to reverse wakeups. inj has fundamental flaws were as ae kof et cetera do not...

In SF, most vortex characters can nullify dps with ambiguous cross ups.

 

[TaffyMeat]

Like games, same in life, people who go looking for problems will find problems. People either bitch about their problems to anyone who will listen or they deal with it.

 

[GGA Saucy Jack]

I'm sorry but I have played a lot of fighting games and the hitbox interactions in NRS games are weird and really atrocious. It's one of the only things I really hate about MK9 and Injustice. Injustice has a lot of stance specific AND state specific combos and I still don't think many are aware of how much specific things can get. For example: If your character has a chain, that chain may or may not combo if you hit someone out of their startup or recovery frames. This means that your punish attempt is never guaranteed and you might get blown up for trying to punish someone. In Street Fighter the character specific combos are only due to the hittable boxes being different which is perfectly normal. But there are no inconsistencies like this in the other fighters I play.

This is a big issue with NRS games that has already been discussed and it was already been said that it was unfixable because it was due to the engine using 3D hitboxes instead of 2D, stance switching etc. If it's still in MK10 though I will not play it.

Ok. This makes sense to me. There is something in the game you don't like, so you would choose not to play because of that. I can accept that. I'm not here to dictate what you do and don't like. That is a matter of choice.

I would counter by saying I must be incredibly lucky in my character and combo choices. I have never had the specific problem you mentioned. In either game. I do not have any stance specific combos or punishes, and I have never run in to it where it caused an issue for me. Maybe if I had Id think differently. But i've never experienced it. Perhaps it's not as rampant of a problem as you think?

 

[AZ MotherBrain]

My answer to both; every fighting game has had and will have bullshit. The real question is why TYM insists on continuously bring up the bullshit.