Who is the most wrong person in the NRS community?

[ZigZag]

No Doombawkz option?

THEY SAID YOU WEREN'T ALIVE, THOSE LIARS I'M SO HAPPY I COULD CRY!!!!

 

[coolwhip]

Yup -- I just think that, additionally, people should be honest about the fact that Kabal did not "run everything" in MK9.. That REO was really the only player who was able to consistently win with him, and that most other players, even those who managed to win a tournament, had a hard time consistently even making Top 8s.

He didn't "run everything," but he dominated. Obviously, REO was the best Kabal by far. So it's really not a surprise that the best player using the best character will have the best results. But I don't agree that others had a hard time consistently making top 8's.

Michael Angelo won the first 3 majors with Kabal. Erik Warda was consistently placing top 8's with Kabal. Since he picked up Kabal, Detroit won Anaheim with Kabal, top 8 at SCR, and made top 8 at EVO with Kabal (the only tourney he failed to place top 8 in with Kabal was Raleigh). CD Jr picked up Kabal before EVO 2012, made the GF there, made the GF of Raleigh (using KL along side him, to be fair) and top 3 at NEC (again, with KL). PL used Kabal as an alt for many match-ups, and he made pretty every top 8 with him with the exception of MLG Dallas. So yeah, that's not quite running the game, but it's pretty significant data.

I mean pretty much every top player who picked up Kabal showed just how good that character is.

 

[187x]

Dave i have to vote for you All the Deathstroke talk and zod is mediocre is too funny.

 

[Qwark28]

Either you just lit up my world or you enlightened me.

 

[dribirut]

its laughable you guys are comparing mmh to kabal

 

[coolwhip]

You honestly need to do some more thinking and research before you post.

Kenshi did not start placing top 8 an entire year after the game had been released. Furthermore, Pig is the only Kenshi player who had significant success with the character, yet the community understands that Kenshi is anything but balanced. There is more to a character than just tournament results, and we, the community, understand that Kenshi is overpowered even if just one talented player is winning with him.

Also, since you value context and accuracy so much, aside from a couple of players nobody has ever claimed that Martian Manhunter is the Kabal of Injustice. I certainly never said so.

OK, remember this post before you blow everyone up once REO rips everyone apart at NEC: I believe MMH is the best in the game. And I believe REO will have tremendous success with that character. A great player + a great character = great results.

Who is denying any of that? Since YOU value context and accuracy so much, show me anyone who ever denied that MMH is ridiculously good. The whole "Kabal of Injustice" thing was not made up by me. It was something Pig said and the KTP commented on, before you took their comments out of context. Period. Everything they said about MMH was in reference to him being the Kabal of Injustice, NOT in reference to whether he's a very good character or not.

That's why I keep bringing up the Kabal of Injustice thing. Not because I'm claiming everyone said it, but because that was the comment that triggered the whole argument. I actually agree with you about the Kenshi analogy.

Question: Since you say "everyone understands that Kenshi is anything but balanced," can you please show me when did any top player deny that MMH is ridiculously good? I'm guessing you listened to the KTP, so surely you couldn't have missed the 10 straight minutes 16 Bit, Slips and Sonic Fox talked about all of MMH's tools and how good he is.

As always, you're making a big deal out of nothing.

 

[M2Dave]

its laughable you guys are comparing mmh to kabal

The quotes are fabricated to discredit the "Martian Manhunter is the best character in the game" opinion.

I know of no more than two players who have compared Martian Manhunter to Kabal, even jokingly so.

 

[AK Black Preon]

At first I thought you were being original... now I see you're just copy pasting images...

You should DROWN in your sorry

You should DROWN in your shame

 

[Rickyraws]

At first I thought you were being original... now I see you're just copy pasting images...

You should DROWN in your sorry

You should DROWN in your shame

How's this for original

 

[coolwhip]

The quotes are fabricated

Oh the irony...

 

[Qwark28]

At first I thought you were being original... now I see you're just copy pasting images...

You should DROWN in your sorry

You should DROWN in your shame

You fools had hope of originality.

 

[FrothyOmen]

This thread is excellent. These fools must apologize for their sins

 

[dribirut]

The quotes are fabricated to discredit the "Martian Manhunter is the best character in the game" opinion.

I know of no more than two players who have compared Martian Manhunter to Kabal, even jokingly so.

ive read it multiple times in other threads. best in the game yes. kabal no

 

[CrimsonShadow]

He didn't "run everything," but he dominated. Obviously, REO was the best Kabal by far. So it's really not a surprise that the best player using the best character will have the best results. But I don't agree that others had a hard time consistently making top 8's.

Michael Angelo won the first 3 majors with Kabal. Erik Warda was consistently placing top 8's with Kabal. Since he picked up Kabal, Detroit won Anaheim with Kabal, top 8 at SCR, and made top 8 at EVO with Kabal (the only tourney he failed to place top 8 in with Kabal was Raleigh). CD Jr picked up Kabal before EVO 2012, made the GF there, made the GF of Raleigh (using KL along side him, to be fair) and top 3 at NEC (again, with KL). PL used Kabal as an alt for many match-ups, and he made pretty every top 8 with him with the exception of MLG Dallas. So yeah, that's not quite running the game, but it's pretty significant data.

I mean pretty much every top player who picked up Kabal showed just how good that character is.

When Michelangelo and Erik Warda were winning, it was an entirely different game, and metagame as well. Since the final patch, only REO was able to repeat a victory. Mike was never able to reclaim his success.. CD Jr. never went 100% Kabal and there was good reason for that -- using him as proof of Kabal dominance doesn't make much sense, because he had proven to win or be top two in tournaments with the other characters he was using.

So basically you have good players that are using a character on the side or just to win certain matchups in Top 8.. Then you have a single Kabal main who was able to win more than one tournament in the final-patch MK9 era, and a single other main who was likely to make top 8, but never threatened to win again.

If anything, if the game hadn't died, Cyrax was on his way to putting up better results, having won Toryuken (with 3 Cyraxs in the Top 8) and won EVO as well, placed higher at SCR etc.

There was one factor that was key in the modern MK era, and that factor was REO.

I just think that factually the Kabal situation is a lot more complicated than people made it out to be. I still don't think MMH is Kabal (based on matchups), but he's more than capable of putting up some serious results in the right hands.

 

[M2Dave]

ive read it multiple times in other threads. best in the game yes. kabal no

I agree.

But some fools take some statements too literally.

"Kabal of Injustice" may simply refer to some highly dominant match ups and no match up worse than 5:5.

Just like "Kano of Injustice" may refer to "from top to low mid tier within a patch".

But KTP are the masters of quote fabrication and propaganda.

 

[coolwhip]

When Michelangelo and Erik Warda were winning, it was an entirely different game, and metagame as well. Since the final patch, only REO was able to repeat a victory. CD Jr. never went 100% Kabal and there was good reason for that -- using him as proof of Kabal dominance doesn't make much sense, because he had proven to win or be top two in tournaments with multiple other characters.

So basically you have good players that are using a character on the side or just to win certain matchups in Top 8.. Then you have a single Kabal main who was able to win more than one tournament in the final-patch MK9 era, and a single other main who was likely to make top 8, but never threatened to win again.

If anything, if the game hadn't died, Cyrax was on his way to putting up better results, having won Toryuken (with 3 Cyraxs in the Top 8) and won EVO as well, placed higher at SCR etc.

CD Jr picks up Kabal before EVO, and despite his being quite raw and unpolished (it was obvious by watching him play) he still used him exclusively in top 8 and it led him to the GF. That's quite strong evidence there. He used him at Raleigh to beat 16 Bit and Maxter with relative ease too. And CD Jr winning with 2 other characters doesn't disprove Kabal's dominance, it just proves that CD Jr is a great player. Not sure I follow this argument. Plus, why would guys like PL and Jr feel the need to play Kabal as an alt despite using, and winning with great characters (Lao and Jax) if Kabal wasn't so ridiculously good?

The Cyrax argument is irrelevant, because it only how great Cyrax is, not that Kabal is any less great. In fact, we've had 2 years worth of Kabal owning Cyrax to show how dominant Kabal is. EVO was all about DJT outplaying the hell out of everyone.

Cyrax is IMO, top 3. But Toryuken had no top Kabal (so of course it becomes easier for Cyrax to dominate), and EVO and SCR were all about one player, DJT. Aren't you applying double standards by using those results as proof of Cyrax being a good character (rather than the one player winning tourneys with him), only to shrug off Kabal's results are simply an indication of how good REO is? And if you want to bring up the fact that it wasn't DJT who won Toryuken, then I'll reiterate that it wasn't REO who won MLG Anaheim (a far more significant tourney).

 

[coolwhip]

I agree.

But some fools take some statements too literally.

"Kabal of Injustice" may simply refer to some highly dominant match ups and no match up worse than 5:5.

Just like "Kano of Injustice" may refer to "from top to low mid tier within a patch".

But KTP are the masters of quote fabrication and propaganda.

OK, so to be clear, we both agree that MMH is the best in the game and REO will body people at NEC, right?

 

[AK Stormthegates]

Tom Brady: "I think superman is fine. I actually think he needs a buff"

I think this is circa ufgt? When I get to a computer I can find it.

 

[AK-Israel]

This thread is excellent. These fools must apologize for their sins

 

[Zoidberg747]

When Michelangelo and Erik Warda were winning, it was an entirely different game, and metagame as well. Since the final patch, only REO was able to repeat a victory. Mike was never able to reclaim his success.. CD Jr. never went 100% Kabal and there was good reason for that -- using him as proof of Kabal dominance doesn't make much sense, because he had proven to win or be top two in tournaments with the other characters he was using.

So basically you have good players that are using a character on the side or just to win certain matchups in Top 8.. Then you have a single Kabal main who was able to win more than one tournament in the final-patch MK9 era, and a single other main who was likely to make top 8, but never threatened to win again.

If anything, if the game hadn't died, Cyrax was on his way to putting up better results, having won Toryuken (with 3 Cyraxs in the Top 8) and won EVO as well, placed higher at SCR etc.

There was one factor that was key in the modern MK era, and that factor was REO.

I just think that factually the Kabal situation is a lot more complicated than people made it out to be. I still don't think MMH is Kabal (based on matchups), but he's more than capable of putting up some serious results in the right hands.

CD Jr got top 8 in EVO with just Kabal

Lets not start with the kabal apologist phase again lol

Edit: The other reason you cant compare MMH with Kabal is while MMH has a couple of higher execution combos he never compared to the amount of execution Kabal took. That was also what made Kabal not as dominant as he should've been, he had such high execution. Once people got his stuff down he wouldve ran the game most likely.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Cyrax is IMO, top 3. But Toryuken had no top Kabal (so of course it becomes easier for Cyrax to dominate), and EVO and SCR were all about one player, DJT. Aren't you applying double standards by using those results as proof of Cyrax being a good character (rather than the one player winning tourneys with him), only to shrug off Kabal's results are simply an indication of how good REO is? And if you want to bring up the fact that it wasn't DJT who won Toryuken, then I'll reiterate that it wasn't REO who won MLG Anaheim (a far more significant tourney).

It would only be a double standard if Maxter wasn't consistently ending up in the Top 2-3 in the modern era. I think that similarly, in both cases there are specific players who propelled those characters to the top, and that there's still room for the same to happen with MMH.

As for your question about the need to use Kabal, I'd ask you why those same players felt the need to use other characters if Kabal was running the entire game. Espcially since Jr. was the one who said he'd go all Kabal to prove how broken he was, but then still felt he needed other characters in order to compete at his best. Imo that doesn't help much to support your argument. A great player using multiple characters is not the same as a single character "running every tournament" in the game.

 

[M2Dave]

OK, so to be clear, we both agree that MMH is the best in the game and REO will body people at NEC, right?

Correct.

The favorites for NEC must be REO and King.

 

[Zoidberg747]

It would only be a double standard if Maxter wasn't consistently ending up in the Top 2-3 in the modern era. I think that similarly, in both cases there are specific players who propelled those characters to the top, and that there's still room for the same to happen with MMH.

As for your question about the need to use Kabal, I'd ask you why those same players felt the need to use other characters if Kabal was running the entire game. Espcially since Jr. was the one who said he'd go all Kabal to prove how broken he was, but then still felt he needed other characters in order to compete at his best. Imo that doesn't help much to support your argument. A great player using multiple characters is not the same as a single character "running every tournament" in the game.

Again though, the only reason there wasn't more Kabal was because his high execution stuff was tougher to get down in a tournament setting. If the game had lived past 3 years more people would have gotten his stuff down and then he would've only showed up more and more.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Again though, the only reason there wasn't more Kabal was because his high execution stuff was tougher to get down in a tournament setting. If the game had lived past 3 years more people would have gotten his stuff down and then he would've only showed up more and more.

Except that out of all the people who got his execution down, it was actually happening that he was winning less outside of REO. And the players who had his execution down the best (like Cat, for example, who was ridiculously on point by late in the game's life) weren't having much different results. So it had to be about more then execution.

 

[GGA Saucy Jack]

Other.

The single dumbest moment in my opinion on TYM during the IGAU era, was M2Dave going on a typical rant about people "spreading false information" and then IMMEDIATELY being completely wrong about how trip guard in this game works and calling people fools when they tried to correct him. Then when 16-bit came in and regulated him like Warren fuckin G, dave disappeared from the thread, instead of apologizing for spreading false information.

Dave, I appreciate your character and how you have embraced being the heel for the community, I honestly do. Props. No trolling. You make me laugh. But that was absolutely embarrassing for you. I accept that most of your other shit is trolling...but that was a blow up.