How NetherRealm Studios Changed the Methodology of Balancing Fighting Games, by Zoran Cunningham

[Duck Nation]

Aquaman's not that bad, in my opinion. I mean he's incredibly obnoxious but I think he'll be shown to have a few bad match-ups later down the road. Same thing with perhaps a few other of the high tier characters.

I think who we should be worried about most are some of the DLC. They're so underplayed, underdeveloped, and even then Zod and MMH (who were admittedly just designed better than the other 4) are only getting dirtier every day. There's also the issue of characters that are just plain slept on like Wonder Woman who is beyond frustrating when the player behind them is competent.

Who knows what will happen? We'll just have to see.

I didn't bring up MMH because he's not a proven problem yet (he will be though, count on it). Aquaman, on the other hand, has maybe one match that's a loss and it's against KF. Everyone else is even or advantage for him, with quite a few by still very notable margin. If there's anything I discovered while doing that tier list compilation, it's that Aquaman's beastliness is not considered remotely contentious. He's actually only gotten better over the patches, since his nerfs have hurt him less than nerfs to other strong characters.

 

[GamerBlake90]

I didn't bring up MMH because he's not a proven problem yet (he will be though, count on it). Aquaman, on the other hand, has maybe one match that's a loss and it's against KF. Everyone else is even or advantage for him, with quite a few by still very notable margin. If there's anything I discovered while doing that tier list compilation, it's that Aquaman's beastliness is not considered remotely contentious. He's actually only gotten better over the patches, since his nerfs have hurt him less than nerfs to other strong characters.

I am curious, might I ask why you think that? I'm hardly a competent Aquaman at the moment (I mainly play Batman), but I'd think he'd be well-equipped to go toe-to-toe with Killer Frost unless I'm just ignorant about some things in that match-up.

 

[RYX]

I didn't bring up MMH because he's not a proven problem yet (he will be though, count on it). Aquaman, on the other hand, has maybe one match that's a loss and it's against KF. Everyone else is even or advantage for him, with quite a few by still very notable margin. If there's anything I discovered while doing that tier list compilation, it's that Aquaman's beastliness is not considered remotely contentious. He's actually only gotten better over the patches, since his nerfs have hurt him less than nerfs to other strong characters.

I don't think Aquaman will go past just going 5-5/6-4 vs everyone. he's strong at the very fundamental level which in this game is really one of the best things to ask for. But I think some characters (like Bane) will prove to give him a tough time

and yes, I think Bane has the advantage in this match-up right now

 

[xWildx]

And that's perfectly fine, nothing wrong with that. But it's when people begin to force their dislike for a game down another's throat that we have a problem, and unfortunately we see a lot of it here (not including you in this, of course). Hell, it's happened before the release of Injustice...it's been an ongoing problem. Need I refer you to the non-sensible Capcom vs. NRS fanboy wars, as an example?

If you intend to be a part of a community, you must understand that you're bound to encounter people who just have a different taste for something. Can't deal with that? Then it's not the best place for you.



Yeeeeah, make those green bucks!

Exactly, but the road goes both ways. People who like the game are just as ardent about shoving their opinion down the people who don't like its throats. I've just shut up about the whole thing, because if I'm not playing it I don't need to comment on it. But the division and hot-headed opinions on both ends are doing no favors to the NRS community as a whole.

 

[GamerBlake90]

Exactly, but the road goes both ways.

Indeed, it does.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Loved this!

 

[RunwayMafia]

Mace charge mace charge mace charge

And I don`t it`s fair to just lump everyone together and call them whiners and scrubs. I stopped playing for plenty of legitimate reasons.
1. I have no local scene
2. I don`t like the huge distance between characters on screen
3. The walk speed is absymal
4. The animations are jacked leading to really dumb crossup situations
5. Clashes become annoying
6. The special buffer when blocking can`t be turned off
7. OTG interactables

I give the game props for style. It`s an entertaining and cinematic. Some MU`s can be genuinely fun. I have a blast with Catwoman vs Batgirl even if I lose a lot. But people have grievances against the game and they shouldn`t just be discarded. I`ll still follow the scene and work on tech when I have the urge (really just to help 16 Bit, but I`m not a loser just because I can`t find passion for a game that irritates me more than it excites me.

There really is no need to defend yourself...you don't like the game, that's fine. However, it is obvious that some people WANT to like the game but just aren't very good. Thus they start complaining and labeling it trash due to their own inability to adapt and learn. It's nice that you still contribute for CW.

Also, as it has been said on some of the podcasts, some of the top players in MK who had found success just cant seem to get it together in IGAU...and then trash the game.

That's mostly what/whom I was referring to.

 

[Chongo]

If you don't like the game, that's fine, you're allowed to have your reasons.

Just don't go on and on and on and on about how bad it is or how scrubby it is or whatever.

 

[Duck Nation]

I am curious, might I ask why you think that? I'm hardly a competent Aquaman at the moment (I mainly play Batman), but I'd think he'd be well-equipped to go toe-to-toe with Killer Frost unless I'm just ignorant about some things in that match-up.

I'd tag Khaotik here but I don't know where the Xs in his name go. Either way, it's not my opinion, it's the opinion of some Frost players. They were the only ones I found making any consistent claims of beating Aquaman.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

i personally think that its important that fighting games breathe a little bit before they are patched. when the game was getting patched like every other week, there wasn't much found out about the current version and it basically brought us back (kinda, sorta, but not really) to day 1. also the fact that not all of the changes were listed in the patch notes, there were probably a good number of things in old versions we have no idea about. i felt like injustice was always a somewhat balanced game, but a very matchup heavy game, and always had one or two overpowered characters. Right now, a lot of players say that MMH and Zod are top 5, but we haven't seen much outside of a few players, so its really hard to say that either one of them would have the same results that black adam or superman had earlier int he game's life since they were much more popular characters, especially amongst top players.

 

[BookOfTheBlack]

What this thread should be about: "Oh hey that's an insightful article that finally gives NRS the props they deserve."

What this thread will turn into: "X character is OP, X is top 5, buff my character, lots of anger."

 

[RunwayMafia]

I'd tag Khaotik here but I don't know where the Xs in his name go. Either way, it's not my opinion, it's the opinion of some Frost players. They were the only ones I found making any consistent claims of beating Aquaman.

I don't think he is that scary. We can punish him from full screen and can parry a lot of his shit....

 

[Minh Giang]

whoever thinks MK9 > this game are fools (shit i'm m2dave now) or can't accept that MK9 is dead lol. maybe it's still too soon but right now imo the only problem in this game is the big screen. i doubt that mk10 will be better if it uses only mk9's gameplay (like someone in this community said, "let mk be mk" or whatever it is...

).

EDIT: other problems in injustice imo are 3D hitboxes for a 2D game, and no hitboxes when characters get knocked down so that why we have stupid anti wakeup tech lol.

 

[SoapBar]

"A poorly balanced game will not only be rejected by the community, but it makes for a terrible viewing experience on tournament streams."

Lmfao.

 

[Icy Black Deep]

What a fluff piece.

Frequent and haphazard patching is haphazard. They fix one glitch with Zod's trait and act like they're on top of everything? Problems with basic game mechanics like getting unintended down, back specials are just plain unfixable.
It implies that developers "based in Japan" have worse balance in their games and it just ain't true; they just put in more effort up front.

And character diversity is not as special as some might think. A little comparison:

Evo 2009: Street Fighter 4 top 8 had 8 characters represented​

Evo 2010: Super Street Fighter 4 top 8 had 8 characters (14 in top 16)​

Evo 2011: SSF4 Arcade Edition top 8 had 6 characters (10 in top 16)​

Evo 2012: SSF4AE2012 top 8 had 8 characters with no overlap (14 in top 16, and no one using multiple characters)​

Evo 2013: SSF4AE2012 top 8 had 11 characters (17 in top 16)​

​

Evo 2011: MK9 top 8 had 9 characters​

Evo 2012: MK9 top 8 had 13 characters​

Evo 2013: MK9 top 8 had 7 characters​

Evo 2013: Injustice top 8 had 8 characters (9 in top 16)​

 

[THTB]

"A poorly balanced game will not only be rejected by the community, but it makes for a terrible viewing experience on tournament streams."

Lmfao.

Depends on the poor balance.

If it's something where there is literally no point in picking another character, then yes, this is pretty true. And by no point, I mean the best character (or characters) in the game are so dominating in their matchups all the way across the board. In the case of best characters, the only way to compete is with any one of these characters.

I wouldn't classify MK9 in this archetype, even despite the fact that the balance isn't really close to stellar. Kabal and Kenshi may be very dominating in quite a few matchups (with Kenshi making Kabal look like child's play in some), both characters have more than just one or two matchups that aren't clearly dominating. A 6-4 isn't dominating. It is a slight edge that, in the end, still will come down to the players behind the characters. In Kabal's case, it's going to take some time on the sticks to really be comfortable enough to win anything with a solid player, anyway. Doesn't matter how easy he is compared to other characters in other games, his stuff isn't just pick-up-and-play. THAT'S why he's not as common as he probably could be. As disappointing as the balance is, you at least have a shot with more than just a couple characters.

Wow, this post turned out longer than expected. Anyway, good read for sure. Everything else about the game aside (not saying I don't like Injustice), if there is one thing I really do enjoy about Injustice, it's that when it comes to balancing, the NRS team hasn't gone completely overboard with the changes, and it's hard to determine who are the best/worst characters.

 

[TaffyMeat]

NRS should stick to making MK adventure games that tell the story of MK. The fgc don't appreciate MK because all people do is argue.

 

[itskrd-eppostar]

i still want my old killer frost back

 

[TheSpore]

I'm going to say why I like IGAU over MK9, don't get me wrong I love MK9 and enjoyed the game for a very long time, but I enjoyed the game before I ever started to become a trully active memeber in the FGC and when I played my first tourney a year ago just before IGAU dropped, i never even knew what Kabal and Kenshi could trully do and I had no clue that Sheeva was pretty much a worthless waste of a characetr slot in the game, which was upstetting since I always liked her and really wanted learn to use her.

IGAU does have flaws, but I enjoy the crazy variety of the characters in the game and its IGAU that actually got me to read DC Comics as before the game was released I was all about Marvel and the ony DC character I liked was Batman. I enjoyed the fact that when I picked up a main, I didn't always feel like I was outclassed simply because of my main or whatever character I picked, in MK I mained Mileena and never felt able to do good with her, because she is just easily shut down and a large amount of the cast can just destroy her IMO.

All things aside I don't care why one hates this game and loves MK over it or vice versa, they are both good games and are fun to play, but I feel IGAU is a far more superior game when it comes to competition.

 

[deathblooms2k4]

Injustice does indeed have great balance, a balance I wish MK9 would have had. I'm one of those scrub players who doesn't really like the game, however I was also a scrub player in MK9 and I liked it. For me I'm more of a spectator of these games and by and large I find Injustice boring to watch. I think it's the footsies and the Anti-Airs that do it for me it just lacks hype and intense turn around moments. I actually wonder what the statistics are of a player taking the first life bar and winning the match, compared to say MK9 where a player Wins the first round. My assumption is that MK9 has more comeback potential than Injustice but I could be wrong.

In short I disagree with the elitist mentality that people who hate the game hate it because they suck at it, because I suck at pretty much every fighting game and yet I find ways to like some and dislike others.

Also you might claim since I'm a scrub my opinion is irrelevant. To which I'd counter that I have frequently paid for the MLG HD streams when they are streaming the games I like to watch and I think it's hard to argue that big sponsors like MLG don't help to keep games afloat.

 

[Skkra]

This version of the game is definitely excellent and well-balanced. Kudos to NRS. I think they've actually made a game more balanced then Capcom games such as MvC, SFxT, and Street Fighter 4 AE

While I can respect the opinion that IGAU is currently balanced, there is no way you can compare it to the balance of SF4 right now. SF4 is in an incredible state of balance where players are able to continually prove that their character is solid - and it's now happened with the vast majority of the cast.

IGAU seems decently balanced - for now. I'm not ready to celebrate yet. Lets play with this patch for the next year and see how things turn out. And while I appreciate NRS patching this game several times, I do not personally like the way they go about it.
1. Release very unbalanaced game
2. Patch several times in quick succession
3. Call it a day
Unless something is super broken, I'd prefer to see a patch every 6-12 months. Let the game breathe. Let the players dig for tech, let us see what is truly broken, etc.

Think about how godly MK9 could've been with another patch or two to slightly tone down the stupid characters, and to buff the needy characters. We would probably have a game with a largely tournament-viable cast.

 

[deathblooms2k4]

While I can respect the opinion that IGAU is currently balanced, there is no way you can compare it to the balance of SF4 right now. SF4 is in an incredible state of balance where players are able to continually prove that their character is solid - and it's now happened with the vast majority of the cast.

IGAU seems decently balanced - for now. I'm not ready to celebrate yet. Lets play with this patch for the next year and see how things turn out. And while I appreciate NRS patching this game several times, I do not personally like the way they go about it.
1. Release very unbalanaced game
2. Patch several times in quick succession
3. Call it a day
Unless something is super broken, I'd prefer to see a patch every 6-12 months. Let the game breathe. Let the players dig for tech, let us see what is truly broken, etc.

Think about how godly MK9 could've been with another patch or two to slightly tone down the stupid characters, and to buff the needy characters. We would probably have a game with a largely tournament-viable cast.

Conversely leaving terrible imbalances in a game can kill the scene quickly. Especially if you don't have a cult following like Street Fighter does to back it up. An unfortunate truth of a lot of fighting games trying to keep their feet on the ground is that they have to appeal to the casual crowd in some respects. Development and patching isn't free.