"You're Fired!" -- Joker General Discussion Thread

[Qwark28]

When done with midterms im posting a 50-50 that will change the way we all use crowbar in the corner

 

[StevoSuprem0]

You do this build up crap too much lol. Inputs or GTFO.

 

[OnlineRon91]

The getting through zoning thread I made kind of died lol. No way am I doing all those match-ups by myself lmao no one wants to split the dirty/boring work

 

[StevoSuprem0]

The getting through zoning thread I made kind of died lol. No way am I doing all those match-ups by myself lmao no one wants to split the dirty/boring work

I'm thinking we should have a Mod just convert it into a general matchup thread instead of just zoning. We need a new one anyway, and I find it hard to discuss matchups against zoners without going into all their other stuff lol. Even if you get around the zoning, you still need to know what to do once you get in their face.

 

[Qwark28]

You do this build up crap too much lol. Inputs or GTFO.

new vid coming s00n

 

[StevoSuprem0]

new vid coming s00n

Sigh. I'll get ready to tell you how known the stuff is.

 

[Qwark28]

Sigh. I'll get ready to tell you how known the stuff is.

it is 100 por chent not known i guarantee you since it came with the new patch. we now have more reason to use normal crowbar

 

[StevoSuprem0]

So it's something with the block disadvantage at -4? Hmmm. Only thing I thought of with that was parrying, or (less viable) trying for d1/b1/11 if you notice they are to punishing with something slower than 10-15 frames. I'll look forward to the post I suppose.

 

[Qwark28]

So it's something with the block disadvantage at -4? Hmmm. Only thing I thought of with that was parrying, or (less viable) trying for d1/b1/11 if you notice they are to punishing with something slower than 10-15 frames. I'll look forward to the post I suppose.

huehuehue no

no reason to hide it anyway, its crowbar into teeth into 113

done correctly its near unblockable and teeth launch for full combo unless they wake up

un jumpable
un blockable

do it wrong though and its truly unblockable so they just take all the damage without being launched

once they start waking up you do mb f3

 

[Qwark28]

let me just add that this is a full combo which means it can lead into normal crowbar again to repeat the cycle until they wake up

 

[OnlineRon91]

Cant back-dash either?

This is corner specific right?

 

[Qwark28]

Cant back-dash either?

This is corner specific right?

yes, corner only.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Lol yeah they've been doing this for a while. 113 teeth loops without the crowbar in the corner if they don't wakeup. This just adds damage to the same loop. I could be wrong, but I think they can poke out of the standing 1 at the start of the combo to escape as well unless the timing doesn't allow.
It is kinda relevant again now the we get them in the situation where they can eat b1,3 into the teeth after the MB crowbar. We talked about this after the buffs too though, only using b1,3 instead of 113- on block it does this same thing. Similar properties, slightly different timing. The meta has evolved where they now have less incentive to wakeup in the corner.
In short, you did it again, but good thinking.

 

[Qwark28]

Lol yeah they've been doing this for a while. 113 teeth loops without the crowbar in the corner if they don't wakeup. This just adds damage to the same loop. I could be wrong, but I think they can poke out of the standing 1 at the start of the combo to escape as well unless the timing doesn't allow.
It is kinda relevant again now the we get them in the situation where they can eat b1,3 into the teeth after the MB crowbar. We talked about this after the buffs too though, only using b1,3 instead of 113- on block it does this same thing. Similar properties, slightly different timing. The meta has evolved where they now have less incentive to wakeup in the corner.
In short, you did it again, but good thinking.

you didnt test this...

it cannot be poked or armoured through, it is 100% guaranteed if they dont wake up and grants a full combo in the same situation without even spending meter.
meanwhile b13 is escapable

this is done after a regular crowbar

in short, this is completely new and noone ever discussed this earlier.

it is made possible only via the new buffs.

i might be improving on old stuff but 90% of the things i find are new and not capitalised on and frankly i seem to be the only one finding shit right now.

every little bit helps and this is not little at all.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

113 teeth loops are absolutely not new. Using them with crowbar is, but that's just more damage.
My problem is you made this sound like some kinda ground breaking shit. It's the same old wakeup vs don't wakeup 50/50 as all the other corner tech we currently have. b13 works the exact same way and doesn't whiff the first hit if they hold down.

 

[Qwark28]

113 teeth loops are absolutely not new. Using them with crowbar is, but that's just more damage.
My problem is you made this sound like some kinda ground breaking shit. It's the same old wakeup vs don't wakeup 50/50 as all the other corner tech we currently have. b13 works the exact same way and doesn't whiff the first hit if they hold down.

no, its not more damage and it is new

which other knockdown allowed you to go in this specific setup?

this is a way to apply the 50/50 from the regular crowbar, not the MB one, this allows you to get the same exact risk/reward without even spending a bar of meter

crowbar into teeth b13 is jumpable while this isnt

poking the 113 means you get launched by the teeth.

this is basically a 50/50 which is access by our best footsie tool without even spending a bar of meter on it, thus saving it for the bigger damage resets.

what makes this big is that

No meter required
Accessible from almost every single normal conversion into crowbar
Doesn't even look like you have time to set up teeth and reset
Allows a 50/50 from the plain crowbar which is actually rewarding instead of a 10% otg

besides, its not the only tech im planning on recording

 

[StevoSuprem0]

It's definitely an easier setup so kudos for that, but you have access to the same thing off a super hard KD from 213 after a teeth bounce if I'm not mistaken (this is the context it was previously performed in I believe). Good find, just not a game changer.
People are going to default to wakeups in the corner, especially against Joker because they know he's dangerous there. Flash, Lobo, DD, and some others can straight up escape with some of their wakeups regardless of the setup, so this stuff is very matchup specific. Some you need to favor the OTG or crossup stuff and REALLY condition them to block, and even then if they see teeth they know it's safe to wakeup ALWAYS more or less. Only in matches where they can't wakeup to get around mb f3 and such will this stuff be really helpful.
Not trying to bash it, just being analytic. It's useful, just not universally so. Another tool for the box, not rainbows shooting out of unicorn asses in honor of all that is Joker, as your typical build up has yet again suggested.

 

[Fromundaman]

Well, good to know it's not the same thing I've been looking at. Might have a different 50-50 in the corner once I get the time to test it (And it does take me time to do this shit because while I may have some creativity, my execution sucks.). As I said in the FB group, I'll try to get that to you this week Qwark so you can record it.


Also Steve0, literally everyone can get out of the MB F3 setup, can't they?
That said conditioning people to not wakeup in the corner after crowbar really isn't hard, especially if you're playing Bo5s or more. They have to focus so much on blocking some truly stupid OTG shit that *most* people have never seen before that they probably won't know that in that particular situation they were supposed to wake up, not to mention if you teeth then block, most wakeups will get blown up, making it another 50-50 guess.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Yeah, against Flash (for example) throwing out teeth and blocking is one of the best options because his Flying Uppercut is very punishable, which is capable of escaping the mb f3 by pushing past/over it. He has the options to do nothing and just block the teeth low, but then he is at least in a frame trap, so it's somewhat of a win-win.
Not everyone can escape the mb f3 setup though if you time it properly or do it from the right setup (I generally use a super hard KD into teeth, or 32 xx teeth as an ender to a corner combo). They can block it like an earthshaker, but it's not easy, especially without practice.

 

[Fromundaman]

I thought everyone could jump out of teeth>MB F3?

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Only some. The super hard KD off 213 and ending several corner combos with 32 teeth doesn't allow them enough time to jump out.
Even more situations will let them get in the air, but then hit them out of it because they don't get high enough, but this is problematic because it reverses sides and takes them out of the corner alot of the time for some dumb reason.
Also need to be wary of people with parry. If they parry the MB f3, the teeth will NOT bounce them (confirmed for Batman and Joker mirror, not positive on KF/Zod/WW).
All will be in my guide video soon, which I'm going to try to have finished up by sometime next week, maybe the following week.

 

[Qwark28]

It's definitely an easier setup so kudos for that, but you have access to the same thing off a super hard KD from 213 after a teeth bounce if I'm not mistaken (this is the context it was previously performed in I believe). Good find, just not a game changer.
People are going to default to wakeups in the corner, especially against Joker because they know he's dangerous there. Flash, Lobo, DD, and some others can straight up escape with some of their wakeups regardless of the setup, so this stuff is very matchup specific. Some you need to favor the OTG or crossup stuff and REALLY condition them to block, and even then if they see teeth they know it's safe to wakeup ALWAYS more or less. Only in matches where they can't wakeup to get around mb f3 and such will this stuff be really helpful.
Not trying to bash it, just being analytic. It's useful, just not universally so. Another tool for the box, not rainbows shooting out of unicorn asses in honor of all that is Joker, as your typical build up has yet again suggested.

except youd go for mb f3 from the hard knockdown for guaranteed damage while this is a meterless 50/50 for 35% damage in the same thing and is much harder to wakeup from since you can otg them, something you couldn't really do before

lobo and dd cannot escape

 

[StevoSuprem0]

except youd go for mb f3 from the hard knockdown for guaranteed damage while this is a meterless 50/50 for 35% damage in the same thing and is much harder to wakeup from since you can otg them, something you couldn't really do before

lobo and dd cannot escape

Lobo and DD can absolutely escape on wakeup. They have advancing specials with two ticks of armor on MB.

 

[Qwark28]

Lobo and DD can absolutely escape on wakeup. They have advancing specials with two ticks of armor on MB.

doomsdays venom is not an invincible wakeup and lobo receives his armour after he starts dragging himself towards his chain.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

doomsdays venom is not an invincible wakeup and lobo receives his armour after he starts dragging himself towards his chain.

Lobo *used* to receive his armor that way. Now it has invincibility frame until the armor occurs on wakeup. DD, you're probably right, you have more experience than me there. Doesn't Supernova escape though? I know it's punishable and what not, just talking straight escaping of the setup.