"You're Fired!" -- Joker General Discussion Thread

[lorenzo]

Just cancels d2 into flower and is +4 on block.

 

[Fromundaman]

Just cancels d2 into flower and is +4 on block.

That's true, but I prefer the setups that D2>Teeth gives, even though it is a bit unsafe. That said mixing both of those options up is where it's at.

 

[Qwark28]

I'm gonna post some great wallcarry and anti wakeup tech a bit later.

 

[KonDcnT]

Random thought: what if Joker had a high and low gun as well as his normal bang?. I know the animations are locked in and can't be changed, but the animations for joker's MB'd high and low canister could be easily used by NRS to produce my desired results. This could help with Joker being out zoned. Maybe I am just frustrated from tonight's online play where I got shell 15-0 by a solid Black Adam lost to a GL a few times and to Supes quite a bit. I am just tired of the bs zoning that joker can't get in on. With an upward and downward angled gun I think Joker could at least keep people honest. Give the dash cancel for both high and low angled guns and joker would be tournament viable. Once again, just a random thought.

 

[Qwark28]

Random thought: what if Joker had a high and low gun as well as his normal bang?. I know the animations are locked in and can't be changed, but the animations for joker's MB'd high and low canister could be easily used by NRS to produce my desired results. This could help with Joker being out zoned. Maybe I am just frustrated from tonight's online play where I got shell 15-0 by a solid Black Adam lost to a GL a few times and to Supes quite a bit. I am just tired of the bs zoning that joker can't get in on. With an upward and downward angled gun I think Joker could at least keep people honest. Give the dash cancel for both high and low angled guns and joker would be tournament viable. Once again, just a random thought.

we as a whole believe that there are better ways to help joker, he needs a way to get in and increase his mobility, the crowbar buff will be a bit helpful when it comes to that part.

 

[KonDcnT]

I agree it will help, but the damage output is dick. Sorry for being negative, just disappointed that the ones that are considered top tier have no problem getting in or keeping people out. I am not good at this game, and will never claim to be, but damn it is frustrating to be a Joker main sometimes.

 

[Gurimmjaw]

So I decided to pick up Joker as my 2nd as he my favorite DC villain. Trying to find out how to play him effectively. Zoning full screen does seem ok to do but after awhile they will duck the hit. So then you have to rush down. His main gameplan im assuming revolves around teeth set ups. Are they also good for keeping rushdown out? Not sure but that what I been using.

I been looking over The Joker forum looking at some techs I can use. I thank you Qwark28 for putting all this together for Joker players. Does he have any winning match ups?

Also will the Joker buffs coming help him in anyway? I do hope Joker gets more buffs then those we saw Ed Boon post. What buffs would help him? Able to combo off of B1 with low laughing gas? Faster start up on air laughing gas?

Also I think he has really good damage output. He can do up to 55% from what I been doing midscreen without any meter.

 

[Qwark28]

So I decided to pick up Joker as my 2nd as he my favorite DC villain. Trying to find out how to play him effectively. Zoning full screen does seem ok to do but after awhile they will duck the hit. So then you have to rush down. His main gameplan im assuming revolves around teeth set ups. Are they also good for keeping rushdown out? Not sure but that what I been using.

I been looking over The Joker forum looking at some techs I can use. I thank you Qwark28 for putting all this together for Joker players. Does he have any winning match ups?

Also will the Joker buffs coming help him in anyway? I do hope Joker gets more buffs then those we saw Ed Boon post. What buffs would help him? Able to combo off of B1 with low laughing gas? Faster start up on air laughing gas?

Also I think he has really good damage output. He can do up to 55% from what I been doing midscreen without any meter.

nope, he doesnt win anything and i do hope we get actual buffs lol.

buffs thatd help would be f2 being an overhead and him having some increased mobility via dashes or some better advantage on gunshots. a gunshot vs people with slow projectiles is a free dash in but not vs chars like deathstroke.

b1 rlg would just leave him still unab;e to open people up.

 

[Qwark28]

Expect a new vid about jokers moves and potential and a couple new setups and higher damage conversions soon.

 

[Gurimmjaw]

nope, he doesnt win anything and i do hope we get actual buffs lol.

buffs thatd help would be f2 being an overhead and him having some increased mobility via dashes or some better advantage on gunshots. a gunshot vs people with slow projectiles is a free dash in but not vs chars like deathstroke.

b1 rlg would just leave him still unab;e to open people up.

Yeah those Joker buffs we saw weren't too impressive so I hope there are more and not another parry buff lol.

F2 being an overhead would be a good idea since you would have B1 and F2 mix ups. I was thinking maybe air laughing gas MB to be an overhead and to have faster start up. Hopefully he does get some good buffs.

Yeah you are right about the b1 though would be nice to combo off of it. Patch needs to come soon. Look forward to seeing more Joker techs from you

 

[AK elitegoomba]

guys I've found a serious mixup off of b1. on fortress of solitude menagerie with your back to the wall the interactable is a buttsplash like b13. so now your opponent will have to guess between b1 butt splash.... and b1..... delayed buttsplash. joker top 5?

 

[KonDcnT]

Coming to the realization that "WE" as a community will make Joker tournament viable. NRS is I not going to hand it to us on a silver plqtter. We chose Joker and "WE" will make him viable. If Joker mains are unable to sit at "the table" we'll kick the effing legs out.

 

[Gilbagz]

Guys was labbing today. Found some pretty wierd crap.
There is literally no such thing as an unblockable.
Off my current corner set up combo (opener ex rlg d2 teeth j2 teeth 3,2 teeth 3,2 teeth - j3)
If you manage to just frame the jump in with low teeth, there are a few scenarios which arise.
a) They block low. If they block low they block the entire thing and get out of the set up however they take full damage from the jump in and chip from teeth. With j3 and low teeth this amounts to 13.88% damage. Overall they remain in block stun though.
b) If they block high, they take 0.36% from the j3 and 7% from the teeth. but they get launched.
c) If they dont do anything they take 18% altogether (7 from the teeth and 11 from the j3) and get launched for a combo.

Whats interesting is if they try to block the 'unblockable' high low they get launched. But if they commit to low block they take about 14% but are able to block.

From this it looks like it is better to use the standard late teeth timing. With proper practice you can minimise the gap between the the jump in and the teeth. Even though it is technically blockable now, it is so hard to block the damage potential is much higher.

If people do start to catch on to this and commit to crouch block though, we can always delay our jump in to get a full combo with j2 instead.

Nothing major major but interesting stuff regardless.
I have a vid i'll upload later. Its a crappy phone cam vid, I couldnt be bothered grabbing the capture card.

Tl;dr: unblockables do not exist. By seperating the j2/j3 and teeth, it becomes much closer to an unblockable.

StevoSuprem0
Qwark28
laudanum09
Sorry for not tagging everyone else. Its late.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Bummer. At least they're still hard-to-block-ables.

 

[OnlineRon91]

Bummer. At least they're still hard-to-block-ables.

I don't know I feel unblockables ruin a fighting game. I rather Joker have hard-to-block-ables as you put it, which will make him have that twisted and unpredictable mind game he's known for

 

[Qwark28]

Guys was labbing today. Found some pretty wierd crap.
There is literally no such thing as an unblockable.
Off my current corner set up combo (opener ex rlg d2 teeth j2 teeth 3,2 teeth 3,2 teeth - j3)
If you manage to just frame the jump in with low teeth, there are a few scenarios which arise.
a) They block low. If they block low they block the entire thing and get out of the set up however they take full damage from the jump in and chip from teeth. With j3 and low teeth this amounts to 13.88% damage. Overall they remain in block stun though.
b) If they block high, they take 0.36% from the j3 and 7% from the teeth. but they get launched.
c) If they dont do anything they take 18% altogether (7 from the teeth and 11 from the j3) and get launched for a combo.

Whats interesting is if they try to block the 'unblockable' high low they get launched. But if they commit to low block they take about 14% but are able to block.

From this it looks like it is better to use the standard late teeth timing. With proper practice you can minimise the gap between the the jump in and the teeth. Even though it is technically blockable now, it is so hard to block the damage potential is much higher.

If people do start to catch on to this and commit to crouch block though, we can always delay our jump in to get a full combo with j2 instead.

Nothing major major but interesting stuff regardless.
I have a vid i'll upload later. Its a crappy phone cam vid, I couldnt be bothered grabbing the capture card.

Tl;dr: unblockables do not exist. By seperating the j2/j3 and teeth, it becomes much closer to an unblockable.

StevoSuprem0
Qwark28
laudanum09
Sorry for not tagging everyone else. Its late.

Unblockables do exist, have you tested this with 213 instead? I know all strings that don't have hard knockdowns and are cancelled with teeth are wonky.

A move does not need to hit at the same time as the other to be an unblockable, it just has to be ridiculously close to being one, when someone can't block it because there is no consistent hard to get timing by the Joker player, it's unblockable, when the mixup is too fast for a human to transition from back to down it's unblockable.

IMO this does not change Joker's corner game one bit.

 

[Qwark28]

guys I've found a serious mixup off of b1. on fortress of solitude menagerie with your back to the wall the interactable is a buttsplash like b13. so now your opponent will have to guess between b1 butt splash.... and b1..... delayed buttsplash. joker top 5?

you're ass bro

oh yeah? well now im an ass in your face

conversation when doing the ass mixup

am i gonna ass you now or ass you later

 

[Gilbagz]

Unblockables do exist, have you tested this with 213 instead? I know all strings that don't have hard knockdowns and are cancelled with teeth are wonky.

A move does not need to hit at the same time as the other to be an unblockable, it just has to be ridiculously close to being one, when someone can't block it because there is no consistent hard to get timing by the Joker player, it's unblockable, when the mixup is too fast for a human to transition from back to down it's unblockable.

IMO this does not change Joker's corner game one bit.

lol yeah i know i said it was nothing major
Was just something funny I found

 

[StevoSuprem0]

lol yeah i know i said it was nothing major
Was just something funny I found

Yeah that's what I was thinking it would come down to as well- at some point, people literally cannot transition their input from back to down. But even above that point, a few frames is still VERY tough to pull off as well. His difficult to block / unblockables / whatever are safe. It's getting them there that's the problem. Commmeeee onnnnnnnnn patch. Daddy needs a new pair of buffs.

 

[laudanum09]

yeah this all seems legit, makes sense there are no marvel style unblockables in the game.

 

[KonDcnT]

How viable do you guys think the crowbar will be? Also, I want ro see a death in the family joker skin, tje one with joker in the gas station attendant uniform.

 

[laudanum09]

yeah me too and TDK skin if possible, but I can see them not going that route because of Heath and trying to be PC about it.

Crowbar isn't going to be that big of a deal unless it's -6 or so on block, can be MBed on block and not just after hit, and MB crowbar gives enough advantage to set up something they can't just escape by jumping away. What that move needed was to be MBable for armor to be a 'fast' advancing F3 for teeth setups, allowing us to be able to follow up far teeth off of knockdowns that don't give enough frame advantage for a full on jump in.

I don't see the footsie game in IGAU for Joker, if there was one, Joker's sweep and a safe crowbar would be subpar tools even. Unless we get something off of crowbar like a setup and real damage off of whiff punishes and space control like that, scraping up an odd few percent here and there is nothing considering the damage output in this game. maybe someone can enlighten me on the footsies here, I just don't really understand the metagame much aside from simple whiff punishes.

 

[Qwark28]

I don't really care anymore about having expectations. I just want whatever's given and will take benefit of the indirect buffs due to other characters being nerfed.

And I see the universal game patch being a walkspeed change which is nothing but helpful.

 

[Fromundaman]

Ugh... I don't know what it is these last few weeks but I seem completely incapable of playing in tournament.
Practice for weeks, get my timings consistent and hit everything in friendlies before and after the event, but these last two tournaments the moment it starts I forget how to play. Thursday it got to the point where I did a B3 and completely forgot what to do and just watched him drop.

I've always had tournament jitters issues; I've been dealing with it for years and have been progressively getting better about it but these last 2 weeks were some of the worst I've ever had it.
Ugh... sorry for venting, but yeah, basically you won't see much in terms of gameplay from me until I can get my act together and play in tournament like I do in friendlies.

 

[OnlineRon91]

Crowbar on wake-up sucks. Anyone notice it has less invincibility that Flower? LAME. More frustration!