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Fighting ethics and helping others. Is it worth it?

nymous

Noob
Okay so this has been kinda bugging me lately. Yesterday I was having some online battles against my cousin. I first started as Aquaman, but wanted to take a shot at my day 1 hawkgirl. So I picked hawkgirl and proceeded to zone the crap out of him. I beat most of his characters but the one I struggled with was batgirl (I wasn't punishing tele :p). But that's besides the point. So when he quit, he sent me a message saying I play hawkgirl like a pussy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but most players don't actually give a shit if they reuse a tactic that works for them, right? Use it until it doesn't work anymore. Isn't that what most players believe? I also was surprised he said I was a pussy for using three moves and running away when his raven does the exact same thing. Difference though is that raven gets a 30% combo after she zones and hawkgirl doesn't. I don't know why he was so mad at me when his characters can do the same thing.

And he went on about me using three moves. I mean come on, doomsday, GL, Supes, KF, etc. they all use very few moves besides combo filler. I asked him if he would rather me play doomsday and rush the shit outta him and not let him do anything and he said he would rather prefer being pounded up close then from far away. And I mean, he doesn't have much hawkgirl experience, so he can't just expect everything to be all fine and dandy if he doesn't know what to expect. Sigh. And then he claimed to know the matchup so well and all that. He said he knew all about the MU and blah blah blah. I was trying to give him advice and such, but he just threw it back in my face, saying I was treating him like he doesn't know anything. That hurt. I was trying to be a good person and try to help him out and he didn't even care. sigh. He told me that all he wanted to do was have a good time and not be zoned on 24/7. Some characters zone. It's their playstyle. What if I wanted to main Sinestro or D-stroke? would he still complain?

He said I zoned a lot with aquaman. While I throw out ground trident a lot, it's to check him on dash or if he's pressing buttons. Aquaman is hardly a zoning character. He has two zoning tools. From the deep and trident throw. They aren't very good. If I zone out a zoning character with him then something is very wrong. He said I zone with every character I get my hands on. If my character has zoning options, and I feel like I'm in a position where zoning would be the best action, I'm going to zone. Doesn't mean I'm going to zone all the time (unless your gonna fall for it over and over again. He asked me if I could call myself a winner if I could only use three moves. I wanted to say: "How can you not call yourself a loser when you can't figure a way around three moves." I refrained from doing so in order to prevent drama over something so trivial. After he left I returned to player matches and got matched with a pretty good deathstroke. We ran a pretty long set. He beat me 54:8. I could have ragequited. I could have given up. I could have called him a zoning pussy and threaten to kill him. But I didn't. I wanted to stick with it and try to learn the MU. You learn much more from your defeats then from your wins. To say that deathstroke is a very frustrating character to fight would be an understatement, but if you give up then you'll never get better at fighting him.

So, what are your thoughts? Is it okay to use a few select moves? Mostly everyone does it. What do you do when you try to give someone advice and they just ignore it? Should you stick to learning MU even though it'll cost you wins? Do you think zoning is a problem? Counterpicking?
 

NKZero

Warrior
There's nothing wrong with using the same move. Don't listen to anyone who criticises you for "spamming" a move. If your game plan is effective, i.e. you win with it and opponent doesn't know what to do, that's their problem. I play Sinestro and if someone keeps trying to jump I will use boulders until they've learnt their lesson.

In terms of select few moves, it depends on your game plan. Me personally I try to find a use for absolutely every string available to my character because I like to keep my options open and I like to give my opponent more to think about when they are facing me.

Don't lower yourself to scrubby standards. Also if you want to better yourself play against better people and people who won't whine or complain about "spamming" or anything similar. Playing better people in itself will force you to open up and expand your game plan, which in turn helps you improve as a player. There's no such thing as 'fighting ethics'. Play to win and to have fun however you see fit.
 

Groove Heaven

Jobber-baron
If someone is losing to you and still criticizing the way you play, that's just them being salty, and being salty will halt your progress if you're trying to be a better player. If I'm losing to someone who is using one tactic that's frustrating me, I look at that as a learning opportunity, a challenge to download my opponent and learn and be better. Once you can beat that tactic, you force them to change what they do and respect you in situations where they might have just done that tactic over and over.
 

nymous

Noob
Yeah. Idk. I guess I was just shocked at his reaction. He usually doesn't say things like that when we play. I thought he was above that. We haven't been playing fighting games for too long (like a year and a couple months) but I thought we were past the point of calling things cheap. He called me a pussy hawkgirl. He has never ever done that before. It caught me by surprise. And I mean I get salty too when I lose but I've never called him anything. Sigh. I guess I gotta find other people to play too.
 
I can actually sum up the FGC's basic message to those who complain about "unethical fighting" (complaining about "spam"):

1) If you lose to spam, that's your fault, not the "spammers". Especially considering the more a move is used, the more easy it is to read. Losing to a spammer says more about how much skill you lack than the "spammer"

2) There's no reason to stop using any move if it works every time. Why should your opponent put in the effort to "mix it up" if you can't even put in the effort to learn to defend against a easily-readable, repetitive tactic.

3) All fighting games are going to have some imbalance. Sometimes there is a matchup that isn't in your favor, and you lose. We have tier lists, we talk about balance etc, but regardless, NEVER say you lost a match because your opponent picked a better character than you. It's disrespectful and scrubby.

4) Don't assume just because you can't get close to a zoning player, (and they are determined to not let that happen) that you will actually win if they let you get closer. Chances are, if you can't block projectiles, you probably can't block normal strings either, which typically have a MUCH faster startup than freaking low gunshots.

5) FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST STOP TRYING TO JUMP THROUGH ZONERS WHEN YOU ARE FULL SCREEN. (This NEEDS to be included in the tutorial for this game: it would massively reduce the number of people complaining about these spamming tactics)

** As for counter picking, I don't like it. Changing your character after you lose is basically telling the opponent 'you only won because character A is better than character B'. I can understand that if you lose several times in a row, you might want to try something new, but counterpicking after just 1 match feels scrubby. I will lose 3 times to Sinestro with Lex before I consider trying out Ares. ##
 

The Admiral

Just a no good grifter.
I'm not a highly skilled player by any means but I don't see any problem with using only a few moves. And I doubt there's very many situations where any player uses every single combo and special move in a single match. And obviously if your opponent isn't able to handle a move then it makes tactical sense to use it.

As for giving advice, it's up to the person receiving it to decide if they want to listen or not. If they don't want to learn, then hey it's no skin off your back. That being said, if someone thinks very highly of their skills then they usually aren't going to be very welcoming to it. As a rule of thumb I don't give advice unless someone has made it clear they want it, just to avoid unnecessary arguments, hate mail, etc.

Imo gaming should be about fun. I play characters I like and do my best to win the fight, not worrying about counter picking or bad MU's. I don't have any problem with people who do worry about those things though, if that's how you want to play then power to you. Then again I don't care about my win/loss ratio either.
 

miloPKL

soundcloud.com/pukelization
i read about 3 sentences. the answer is no. its never worth your time to show the wrong they are wrong. unless you care for the person. your energy is better spent elsewhere.
 

Cylith

Amazonian Speed Force
You did nothing wrong. I've offered advice and have received many a F.U. message over the years. If he can't beat a tactic, then he does need to learn, but to an extent I do understand the frustration. Especially since the only part I agree with from your cousin is preferring to be rushed-down than shot at the whole time. That is just what I prefer, so naturally I am against zoning as a play style for myself to use, but not others. Its irritating to fight for sure, but I know it takes skill to actually do it well, just not a skill I like lol.
 

roosTakk

Chode Juggler
Something always beats something else (insert f23 joke here). If someone is bitching and crying because they cant figure out how to beat your three moves, that is their problem. Just continue to level up, and keep in mind, doing scrubby/gimmicky stuff won't always work for you. I play on XBL a lot and some people I play are always bitching ...

"your so patternized"
"you weren't supposed to be able to poke out of that"
"all you do is 'insert move/strategy here'"

Granted I might be guilty, but...if I am just a pattern, figure me out and win....if I wasn't supposed to be able to poke out of that, you fucked up your input....if all i do is xxx and you STILL lose...you basically calling yourself free. Excluding lag tactic bologna...but that's just straight horseshit.
 

big_aug

Kombatant
If you win using the same move over and over, you should quit immediately and play someone else. You're just making yourself worse by beating people with tactics that wouldn't work on anyone with a brain.
 
Reactions: ELC

ThaShiveGeek

Est In Harvey 1989
Haha. The same situation happened with one of my room mates. I'm trying to get them into playing Injustice since we don't have wifi. I main Batman. Little backstory he's a tekken player. Anyway when I pick Batman I can do combos that'll take his entire health bar. He hates that shit. "If I was playing someone and they did some bullshit like that I'd punch them in the fucking face!" lol. That's how upset he gets with Injustice. I'm not in the wrong for being better at the game. He has to want to learn how to actually play and counter what I'm doing with Batman. Basically don't feel bad man. If player A can't get past a tatic that play B does then player A needs to hit the lab and learn to how to get past said tatic.
 

ThaShiveGeek

Est In Harvey 1989
If you win using the same move over and over, you should quit immediately and play someone else. You're just making yourself worse by beating people with tactics that wouldn't work on anyone with a brain.
Not true in my opinion. He's doing nothing wrong. It's up to the other player to stop him. If I can literally win matches by using fast guns with DS for 25 matches in a row why would I stop? YOU stop me lol.
 

Mt Mutombo

Banned
I've always had a motto when it comes to competing at sports/games/arguments/life etc.

I win - You shut the fuck up, i am your master, and you know nothing about this matter. That or just humbly ask how to beat me, other wise you are beneath me.

Kind of douchey i know, but i've had to deal with a lot of sore losers in my time. I'll help you beat me, but if you're a cunt then im your god.
 

big_aug

Kombatant
Not true in my opinion. He's doing nothing wrong. It's up to the other player to stop him. If I can literally win matches by using fast guns with DS for 25 matches in a row why would I stop? YOU stop me lol.
Did you not read my post? No one with a brain is going to let this happen. It only works on people who have no idea what they're doing. Why waste your time? Great, you can be retards.
 

Mt Mutombo

Banned
If you win using the same move over and over, you should quit immediately and play someone else. You're just making yourself worse by beating people with tactics that wouldn't work on anyone with a brain.
Only that's not his problem. You're not gonna get on Kobe Bryants case just cause he only attempted and made 50 jumpshots, if something works against the other person, you keep doing it until they stop you.

When that fails...you adjust.
 

big_aug

Kombatant
Only that's not his problem. You're not gonna get on Kobe Bryants case just cause he only attempted and made 50 jumpshots, if something works against the other person, you keep doing it until they stop you.

When that fails...you adjust.
What do you guys not understand? This is NOT GOOD PRACTICE FOR YOU. It's like Kobe Bryant playing against a high school kid. Sure, Kobe can drop 100 points, but it doesn't do shit for his real game. It's a waste of time.
 

ELC

Scrublord McGee
If you win using the same move over and over, you should quit immediately and play someone else. You're just making yourself worse by beating people with tactics that wouldn't work on anyone with a brain.
Perhaps the OP could use his cousin as a training dummy for combos? :p