Question Best hard KD setups after WC MB.

[trevorwilliamK]

So I've religiously been practicing Grundy with the intention of changing him to my main. I just love his play style. The problem is, most of the combos I've learned from the various threads here start with things that aren't walking corpse. But in game, I love to WCC cancel a lot, or just let the WC land with meter burn to try and get a setup off the splat. My issue is that I never know if I'm maximizing my setup combo damage, so my question:

After a successful WC MB, what are some of the best 'go to' strings you guys like to go into? What's the best string after a WC MB if you don't have any meter? Currently I TRY (key word is try, here), to grave rot, jump 2 immediately into the 112, dead air mb etcetc. Problem is, that requires a ton of meter and I'd prefer to get something with a reset.

Any info would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[FrothyOmen]

when i played him i would always grave rot, WCC to absorb wakeups and punish, or if they are blocking i get a blockstring, and if they expect the WCC and try to poke me out i'd just let the WC go. worked fine for me, never understood why anyone would ever bother jumping in since you can just invincible wakeup on read, and probably on reaction too...

 

[1truking]

Lots of options off mb wc.

f13 works well if they mistime a wakeup you get a meterless 35%. It will beat some wake ups when done properly.

neutral j2 113 f~11 trait works but I find hitting 113 combo's online difficult.

If you read a block off a neutral j2 you can do 1 trait. Or you can do a b1/f1 option.

sometimes raw trait is good if they are good at escaping your mixups.

WCC into their wakeup works.

d2 as they get up into trait.

b1 into wcc if it hits it leads to a free trait if its blocked you have pressure if they wakeup and its timed correctly the WCC absorbs the wakeup.

 

[trevorwilliamK]

Awesome, thanks guys.

 

[ChaoticShdwMonk]

WC MB, dash in twice, flip stance, n.jump 2 for an ambiguous crossup then go into whatever mixup you want
or
WC MB, dash in twice, very slight step back into flip stance (flip stance masks it), n.jump 2 for non crossup then go into whatever mixup you want

The beauty of it is most wakeups will either get stuffed or whiff and be punishable. Once they catch on they can't wakeup they'll be forced to block and guess on your mix ups:
- b1 cancel into mb hands (high low). I don't particularly like this one since I can't hit confirm it but if it is blocked a mb trait, d1 to 112, d2>trait (works if they block or get hit) or WC/WCC work well
- f13 (low) which you can hit confirm into followup or block confirm into trait
- 112 (mid) which you can hit confirm into a followup, block confirm into trait or block confirm and mb hands if they're blocking standing or mb cleaver if they're blocking crouching
All of which lead to another hard KD

Just remember to respect the really good wakeup specials out there (deathstroke's sword spin for example) which you can bait (for example, dash dash, empty n.jump then block when you land and if they don't pay attention to you not doing a flip stance they'll likely do their wakeup) and punish as needed.

 

[trevorwilliamK]

WC MB, dash in twice, flip stance, n.jump 2 for an ambiguous crossup then go into whatever mixup you want
or
WC MB, dash in twice, very slight step back into flip stance (flip stance masks it), n.jump 2 for non crossup then go into whatever mixup you want

The beauty of it is most wakeups will either get stuffed or whiff and be punishable. Once they catch on they can't wakeup they'll be forced to block and guess on your mix ups:
- b1 cancel into mb hands (high low). I don't particularly like this one since I can't hit confirm it but if it is blocked a mb trait, d1 to 112, d2>trait (works if they block or get hit) or WC/WCC work well
- f13 (low) which you can hit confirm into followup or block confirm into trait
- 112 (mid) which you can hit confirm into a followup, block confirm into trait or block confirm and mb hands if they're blocking standing or mb cleaver if they're blocking crouching
All of which lead to another hard KD

Just remember to respect the really good wakeup specials out there (deathstroke's sword spin for example) which you can bait (for example, dash dash, empty n.jump then block when you land and if they don't pay attention to you not doing a flip stance they'll likely do their wakeup) and punish as needed.

Im glad you brought this up, because I've been having problems with this exact setup. I saw a video on it incorporating the stance switch. However, I seemingly do the exact same thing as I'm seeing performed but I can't get grundy to cross up everytime. It seems random to me. Is there something I am missing?

 

[1truking]

Im glad you brought this up, because I've been having problems with this exact setup. I saw a video on it incorporating the stance switch. However, I seemingly do the exact same thing as I'm seeing performed but I can't get grundy to cross up everytime. It seems random to me. Is there something I am missing?

It depends on which foot is forward the one closest to the screen or furthest. It also depends on when you do the j2 during it. I've managed to do it in identical set ups and have it cross up and not cross up.

 

[trevorwilliamK]

Scratch that. Figured it out. Only took an hour of relentless repetition. =)

Some pretty sick tech. The one pixel stance switch is pretty slick. I can imagine this being a pain in the ass to execute online though.

One of the only things I'm missing from my game is proper use of Cleaver. Any tips on most damaging combos incorporating the cleaver, and when to use it to utilize the armor of the skill efficiently? It seems like the majority of the cleaver combos are pretty low damage. I could just be doing them wrong though. Not sure.

 

[BaronVonRupert]

One of the only things I'm missing from my game is proper use of Cleaver. Any tips on most damaging combos incorporating the cleaver, and when to use it to utilize the armor of the skill efficiently? It seems like the majority of the cleaver combos are pretty low damage. I could just be doing them wrong though. Not sure.

after 112 i use cleaver if i think they'll jump and swamp hands if i think they'll poke, but mb cleaver generally covers both anyway but swamp hands is for damage. sometimes i'll use it (mb) when i think people will try to wake up but not horribly often.

 

[BurdManJR270]

Scratch that. Figured it out. Only took an hour of relentless repetition. =)

Some pretty sick tech. The one pixel stance switch is pretty slick. I can imagine this being a pain in the ass to execute online though.

One of the only things I'm missing from my game is proper use of Cleaver. Any tips on most damaging combos incorporating the cleaver, and when to use it to utilize the armor of the skill efficiently? It seems like the majority of the cleaver combos are pretty low damage. I could just be doing them wrong though. Not sure.

It has invincibility frames on wake up, but is negative on block. I wouldn't be throwing it out too much. I would MB only as a way to escape pressure.

 

[trevorwilliamK]

WC MB, dash in twice, flip stance, n.jump 2 for an ambiguous crossup then go into whatever mixup you want
or
WC MB, dash in twice, very slight step back into flip stance (flip stance masks it), n.jump 2 for non crossup then go into whatever mixup you want

The beauty of it is most wakeups will either get stuffed or whiff and be punishable. Once they catch on they can't wakeup they'll be forced to block and guess on your mix ups:
- b1 cancel into mb hands (high low). I don't particularly like this one since I can't hit confirm it but if it is blocked a mb trait, d1 to 112, d2>trait (works if they block or get hit) or WC/WCC work well
- f13 (low) which you can hit confirm into followup or block confirm into trait
- 112 (mid) which you can hit confirm into a followup, block confirm into trait or block confirm and mb hands if they're blocking standing or mb cleaver if they're blocking crouching
All of which lead to another hard KD

Just remember to respect the really good wakeup specials out there (deathstroke's sword spin for example) which you can bait (for example, dash dash, empty n.jump then block when you land and if they don't pay attention to you not doing a flip stance they'll likely do their wakeup) and punish as needed.

BTW, is there a list of wake up attacks that can't be stuffed? For example, I see you mentioned sword spin, but what about sword flip? I can't seem to stuff that one. Are there just some characters you simply shouldn't implement this tech with? It seems counter-productive since Grundy already struggles against good keep-away zoners. Throwing in un-punishable wakeups on top of which seems sucky. I'm starting to think you are just baiting the attacks to get the punish afterwards, which makes sense.

In the example of Deathstroke's sword spin, I've been practicing blocking it. What's the best punish string to execute after that for max damage?

 

[BaronVonRupert]

In the example of Deathstroke's sword spin, I've been practicing blocking it. What's the best punish string to execute after that for max damage?

i usually go for 112 swamp hands because it hits pretty far and it's decently fast. i think 2 mb swamphands should work as well but i'm not sure since i haven't personally tested that.

 

[1truking]

BTW, is there a list of wake up attacks that can't be stuffed? For example, I see you mentioned sword spin, but what about sword flip? I can't seem to stuff that one. Are there just some characters you simply shouldn't implement this tech with? It seems counter-productive since Grundy already struggles against good keep-away zoners. Throwing in un-punishable wakeups on top of which seems sucky. I'm starting to think you are just baiting the attacks to get the punish afterwards, which makes sense.

In the example of Deathstroke's sword spin, I've been practicing blocking it. What's the best punish string to execute after that for max damage?

Anything you want. He's negative 20 or so on block. 112 sh or 112 bf2 combos work.

 

[ChaoticShdwMonk]

BTW, is there a list of wake up attacks that can't be stuffed? For example, I see you mentioned sword spin, but what about sword flip?

Yes, sword flip is also one of the ones on the list. As is MMH's force push thingy.
Others like batman's slide, flash's headbutt, arrow's slide, etc. won't hit you but will get them out of the mixup assuming they inputted it in the correct direction depending on weather you were crossing up or not and due to that, I still try it on them to see if they can deal with it and if they can I know not to use it.

Yes, bait for the purpose of punishing

 

[trevorwilliamK]

You guys are awesome. So much good info.

 

[Nonameformedude]

BTW, is there a list of wake up attacks that can't be stuffed? For example, I see you mentioned sword spin, but what about sword flip? I can't seem to stuff that one. Are there just some characters you simply shouldn't implement this tech with? It seems counter-productive since Grundy already struggles against good keep-away zoners. Throwing in un-punishable wakeups on top of which seems sucky. I'm starting to think you are just baiting the attacks to get the punish afterwards, which makes sense.

In the example of Deathstroke's sword spin, I've been practicing blocking it. What's the best punish string to execute after that for max damage?

Sword flip is stuffed only at a certain range with a certain move. If you do a d3 hard knockdown(his sweep)and then meter burn a f3 to match his wake up it stuffs sword flip for a full combo punish. That is the range you need to be in and the move you need to use if you want to stuff sword flip. If you know he is going to sword flip(hes DS, hes going to sword flip)you can block it then standing 2 into swamp hands for a huge damage punish or go into a reset if you have meter

After a meter burned WC I do one of four things if I dont read a wake up and block to punish
1. dash twice, jumping 2(corpse hop)into 113/f13/b1. This works on people that dont know he can cross up, but because of his floaty jump many people who know this gimmick will just d2 or do a wake up that beats the jump(sword spins winz)
2. I dash twice and stance switch to get them ready to react to the j2 and instead hit with a meaty f13 on wake up(this gives you a tick throw if they block and a chance to dead air cancel and jump out of that tick throw set up).
3. I dash twice to get them ready to react for set up one or two, then I grave rot(you can meter burn but to me its a waste to meter burn that unless you plan on going into the power chain)and mb a f3. If the opponent doesnt have a wake up attack that is multi hitting then this will stuff anything that isnt just blocking and its safe on block so you can continue pressure without losing the rot.