This community does not want a balanced fighting game.

[Kiko]

It's not that cut and dry. This game has a lot of characters - at least eight, by my reckoning - who do very well in most of their matches, but have a handful where they get decimated. You can't just straight buff them, or straight nerf the characters they lose to without putting things even further off-kilter. Buffing Shazam is easy, he's trash. Fixing Lex or Hawkgirl? A lot harder.

I disagree. Fixing hawkgirl's and Lex's (or Joker's) could mean lessening a few frames on worthless tools like parry, mines, etc.

It's a live action and reaction game which means essentially we aren't playing Pokemon where one buff leads to an attack that will always land.

 

[Perfect Legend]

I disagree. Fixing hawkgirl's and Lex's (or Joker's) could mean lessening a few frames on worthless tools like parry, mines, etc.

It's a live action and reaction game which means essentially we aren't playing Pokemon where one buff leads to an attack that will always land.

Dude hawkgirl is godlike they dont need to do anything to her.

Black adam however needs to lose range on lightning cage. He already wins every zoning trade its ridiculous

 

[Duck Nation]

Hawkgirl loses very badly to Sinestro and Deathstroke, and pretty badly to Lex, Batgirl and Cyborg. I think I'm forgetting somebody else who makes her miserable, too. She's completely capable - quite good, really - in the rest of her matches, but if she gets any of those she's pretty much already lost at the select screen.

Lex gets bodied by Superman and Sinestro. He's pretty much fine otherwise. You can't just give either of them straight buffs.

 

[xWildx]

That's why the word "aspiring" will most likely remain in your title. Please familiarize yourself with the following principles and maybe your future assessments will actually have some merit (being a game designer involves a lot of reading and education about a diverse set of scientific fields paired with creative theory and logic). The following deal with game theory in a broader sense than video games obviously but can be regarded as the fundamentals of the discipline. They are however especially valuable in this discussion here because we talk about motivation and player behavior:

• Behavioral Game Theory: Experiments in Strategic Interaction
• Games and Decisions: Introduction and Critical Survey
• Evolutionary Game Theory, Natural Selection, and Darwinian Dynamics

I'm sorry, who are you?

 

[M2Dave]

If you have something that can be abused in this game you will win.

Correct.

First, NRS needs to analyze what makes the top tier characters top tier. Second, they need to think about what they can do to help the low tier characters.

For example, characters who have strong 50/50 mix ups (i.e., Batgirl, Killer Frost, The Flash, and Wonder Woman) are very good in this game. As are characters who can rush down and zone (i.e., Aquaman, Batman, General Zod, Martian Manhunter, Superman, etc.).

What does a character like Lobo or Shazam need to be up there?

 

[Duck Nation]

Why do I get ignored every time I say "guys, um, matchups?" :/

 

[Akromaniac27]

Hawkgirl loses very badly to Sinestro and Deathstroke, and pretty badly to Lex, Batgirl and Cyborg. I think I'm forgetting somebody else who makes her miserable, too. She's completely capable - quite good, really - in the rest of her matches, but if she gets any of those she's pretty much already lost at the select screen.

Lex gets bodied by Superman and Sinestro. He's pretty much fine otherwise. You can't just give either of them straight buffs.

Idk, I keep hearing(and I do agree) from HG mains how amazing and whatnot she is up close if she ever needs to be. That she is very capable of rushing down as well. So what I gather from that simply is she just has to fight the zoning MU's like every other character and be patient. I don't feel she should get flight mode buffs simply because you can't rely on it in certain MU's

 

[Duck Nation]

Idk, I keep hearing(and I do agree) from HG mains how amazing and whatnot she is up close if she ever needs to be. That she is very capable of rushing down as well. So what I gather from that simply is she just has to fight the zoning MU's like every other character and be patient. I don't feel she should get flight mode buffs simply because you can't rely on it in certain MU's

I assure you, Hawkgirl is quite helpless against DS. Her mains will tell you this too. Sinestro is basically a 9-1 the moment he gets his trait, and it's not hard for him to find time to charge it.

 

[Akromaniac27]

Correct.

First, NRS needs to analyze what makes the top tier characters top tier. Second, they need to think about what they can do to help the low tier characters.

For example, characters who have strong 50/50 mix ups (i.e., Batgirl, Killer Frost, The Flash, and Wonder Woman) are very good in this game. As are characters who can rush down and zone (i.e., Aquaman, Batman, General Zod, Martian Manhunter, Superman, etc.).

What does a character like Lobo or Shazam need to be up there?

50/50's XD

 

[Qwark28]

Yea but black adam shuts down like everyone in the game its not fun. He all safe wake up attacks. Safe lightning strike which is a low he can use as a mixup full screen with dive kick lol. Safe overheads if you duck you die and then his trait and this char is just silly like come on man. Get hit by a lightning strike now u have to get up and block u cant jump free chip and meter build come on now and it can anti air u

is this due to losing badly to rico an hour ago?

 

[Akromaniac27]

I assure you, Hawkgirl is quite helpless against DS. Her mains will tell you this too. Sinestro is basically a 9-1 the moment he gets his trait, and it's not hard for him to find time to charge it.

Well are they getting knocked out of the air and that's why they feel so strongly about it? Because if that's the case, then we're back to square 1. Strong zoners are hard to get in on because of how much of the screen they can target. If you limit your movement(for example, dash, block) its only a matter of time before you reach them. Now if you want to go flight mode and try your luck, well...good luck doing that

 

[Duck Nation]

I play Deathstroke, not Hawkgirl. They've tried all manner of tactics, and believe me, I can run it the fuck over. It's anal rape. Dry.

 

[Akromaniac27]

That's why the word "aspiring" will most likely remain in your title. Please familiarize yourself with the following principles and maybe your future assessments will actually have some merit (being a game designer involves a lot of reading and education about a diverse set of scientific fields paired with creative theory and logic). The following deal with game theory in a broader sense than video games obviously but can be regarded as the fundamentals of the discipline. They are however especially valuable in this discussion here because we talk about motivation and player behavior:

• Behavioral Game Theory: Experiments in Strategic Interaction
• Games and Decisions: Introduction and Critical Survey
• Evolutionary Game Theory, Natural Selection, and Darwinian Dynamics

Hmm, I kinda just find it as common sense, wouldn't you say so? Or is only 2-3 characters out of +20 that have virtually no flaw or penalty perfectly ok? I see no strategy anywhere if all you do is safe/advantage

*EDIT: Nor creativity, or any form of logic

 

[webreg]

I'm sorry, who are you?

What does it matter? Solid suggestions can well stand on their own.

 

[xWildx]

What does it matter? Solid suggestions can well stand on their own.

I suppose it doesn't, besides you sounding like a pompous douchebag who feels the need to flaunt their "information" without really proving any point or even showing a solid understanding of the point I was trying to make. Which apparently, other people understood just fine.

Crawl back into your hole now.

 

[Qwark28]

It's pretty simple. Nerf the amazing, buff the bad. Nobody wants to see their character get nerfed, even if it means balance.






Boom example of what I mean.






BA is unwinnable for a ton of characters. His jumps and dashes shut down attacks from majority of the cast.


If you have something that can be abused in this game you will win.

7-3s are unwinnable only to scrubs. BA does not win anything over 7 3

 

[webreg]

Hmm, I kinda just find it as common sense, wouldn't you say so? Or is only 2-3 characters out of +20 that have virtually no flaw or penalty perfectly ok? I see no strategy anywhere if all you do is safe

I challenged the assumption that "letting the game evolve" is the right course of action as xWildx suggested. It is neither right nor wrong. Right and wrong always depends solely on the goal you like to achieve and this applies not only to game balance but to our world as a whole. NRS decided that their approach is frequent patching. Capcom decided that their approach is infrequent patching within new releases. Both approaches have their advantages and disadvantages. Based on their success as a challenger in the field of fighting games I would say NRS decided correctly. They just seem to struggle with the specifics of their decisions.

The main problem seems to be that they can't trust anyone to give a honest and fair analysis of the game balance. This community is full of personae with their own agenda and tournament results are rather erratic as well because while the US players might well think they are the center of the universe, Injustice is played around the world and not in the same way. So basing their balancing decisions solely on some US tournament results is not a good idea either. Which leaves NRS in a kind of predicament.

 

[Belial]

Its a dicsussion between deaf and blind.
Game is immensily boring to watch = fact
You have to put up with too much broken shit = fact

Even if this game still works as it is (i.e eveyone is broken = balance) doesnt cancel the abovementioned.
The fact that sinestro projectile is -25 (balanced) doesnt mean it makes for a good game (fun)
Once you get to high level Injustice it may be a pretty good game. Thing is, nobody would give a crap learning it to high level, b/c I dont think any person watching EVO stream thought: "Damn! I want to learn this game, I want to do this cool slow paced full screen projectile wars too! I want to spam 1 move upclose too! This looks so awesome!"
And if I still get to play it, what do I face? Divekick/Laser/Air Blast/9frame same specials with OP properties etc etc. Am I supposed to enjoy this game? People saying its okay/step up ur game? Nobody's going to enjoy this kind of FG experience. I've played many, and IGAU is THE worst FGs experience I've had. Despite it actually is great when you've invested enough effort.

This days No Hype = Dead Game. Remove superheroes from there and you'd shrink down to 5 viewers per stream.

 

[xWildx]

Street Fighter 4 allows it's game to evolve for a year or longer at a time. It's the most successful and one of the most highly revered fighters currently out there. I'm sure the fact that it has a much larger presence in the arcades helps, but Capcom doesn't patch the game every time a complaint comes up about it

EDIT: That being said, I think there's a ton more wrong with the game outside of balance progression. But that's more a matter of personal taste and uninspired artistic direction.

 

[Duck Nation]

IGAU is THE worst FGs experience I've had.

Every single thing I have ever seen you post is a whiny bitchfest. You've made your feelings clear, and they're not changing, and the game isn't going to change enough to make you happy. There's the door - use it.

And I hope it hits you on the way out.

 

[TarkatanDentist]

Correct.

First, NRS needs to analyze what makes the top tier characters top tier. Second, they need to think about what they can do to help the low tier characters.

For example, characters who have strong 50/50 mix ups (i.e., Batgirl, Killer Frost, The Flash, and Wonder Woman) are very good in this game. As are characters who can rush down and zone (i.e., Aquaman, Batman, General Zod, Martian Manhunter, Superman, etc.).

What does a character like Lobo or Shazam need to be up there?

Good 50/50s alone do not necessarily a good character make. (See: Catwoman)

The problem with Injustice is, as has been mentioned, that the characters are so radically different and play in totally different ways, unlike, say, Street Fighter where each character will generally play in one of four or so styles, or Tekken where everyone effectively has the same style.

Even if each character becomes viable in their own right, with styles varying like they do, it's almost certain that at least a handful of matchups will be borderline unwinnable for one side.

In that respect, Raven is actually one of the most well-'balanced' in the game. She doesn't really have any match-ups at all worse than 4-6, and her very obvious strengths (awesome air control, good combo damage and great zoning pressure in Demon Stance) contrast perfectly with her obvious flaws (terrible range on normals, no low/overhead game and unsafe specials outside of Demon Stance), which some characters can take advantage of but none can fully decimate her with.

The likes of Catwoman and Hawkgirl, by contrast, are atrociously balanced.

 

[webreg]

I suppose it doesn't, besides you sounding like a pompous douchebag

Well, if proper grammar and spelling does make me sound like a douche then I gladly accept that title. English is only my third language though and I don't speak it in my daily life. I guess my statements do sound rather odd because I use English primarily to write technical papers and the language required there is far from the language used in daily life.

 

[Akromaniac27]

I challenged the assumption that "letting the game evolve" is the right course of action as xWildx suggested. It is neither right nor wrong. Right and wrong always depends solely on the goal you like to achieve and this applies not only to game balance but to our world as a whole. NRS decided that their approach is frequent patching. Capcom decided that their approach is infrequent patching within new releases. Both approaches have their advantages and disadvantages. Based on their success as a challenger in the field of fighting games I would say NRS decided correctly. They just seem to struggle with the specifics of their decisions.

The main problem seems to be that they can't trust anyone to give a honest and fair analysis of the game balance. This community is full of personae with their own agenda and tournament results are rather erratic as well because while the US players might well think they are the center of the universe, Injustice is played around the world and not in the same way. So basing their balancing decisions solely on some US tournament results is not a good idea either. Which leaves NRS in a kind of predicament.

Ok so wouldn't it makes sense to do the Capcom way and let the game flesh out if it's being played globally and differently throughout, rather than making fixes practically every other month over stuff that there have been found solutions to afterwards? This is logic. Your reply contradicted itself between the first and second paragraph in terms of reasoning

 

[Akromaniac27]

Well, if proper grammar and spelling does make me sound like a douche then I gladly accept that title. English is only my third language though and I don't speak it in my daily life. I guess my statements do sound rather odd because I use English primarily to write technical papers and the language required there is far from the language used in daily life.

Oh right right, I remember you now. I forgot where I heard that "English is only my third language" nonsense before; scrubbing it up on other threads. Don't you have something better to do? If you truly deem proper grammar as an accomplishment OVER THE INTERNET, mind you in a gaming website of all places, you need to seek something much more meaningful.

 

[Kiko]

7-3s are unwinnable only to scrubs. BA does not win anything over 7 3

That's exaggeration on my part. I just didn't feel like using "uphill battle the entire match." Is that better?