Match-up Discussion Hawkgirl's matchup chart.

[OutlawNightmare]

Hey guys, Bane main here. I am gonna have to interject and say that the Bane vs hawkgirl is far from the 5-5 listed in the initial post.

It is dramatically in hawkgirls favor. Between wing evade and that mace charge you can do on wake up, it is EXTREMELY difficult for us to keep any kind of real pressure.

Its arguably Banes worst match up.

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[Tiger Wong]

Well..... that matchup chart is a bit dated. You should go to the Matchup Discussion thread.

And Wing Evade doesn't really evade much of Bane's stuff on wakeup. And you should probably jD3 on her after a knockdown as it nails her during MC and WE.

But yeah.... go to the Matchup Discussion thread for more and more updated matchup info.

 

[RunwayMafia]

RunwayMafia, hey man what are your thoughts about the DD - HG MU?

I'm not exactly sure on what I'd label the MU, I have limited experience against competent DD's. However, I do know for a fact that she can avoid his teleport move with a Mace Charge and also I believe she can time a WE(2) right as he lands and full combo punish that move. I bring this up because her bad MU's tend to revolve around who can take her out of the air/ take away her lame factor.

With that said, HG has a solid ground/poke game and I always tend to interrupt his strings and pressure...I believe she can outplay him on the ground ( I have played one really good DD online and he couldn't beat me)....except his trait can be a problem.

At this point in time I'd label it a 5-5. They are both bully characters...their moves are designed to throw you into the corner which is truly where HawkGirl dominates...and correct me if I'm wrong, DD has a solid corner game as well. Hard for me to tell at this time due to lack of experience against him.

 

[RunwayMafia]

Well..... that matchup chart is a bit dated. You should go to the Matchup Discussion thread.

And Wing Evade doesn't really evade much of Bane's stuff on wakeup. And you should probably jD3 on her after a knockdown as it nails her during MC and WE.

But yeah.... go to the Matchup Discussion thread for more and more updated matchup info.

If you watch the plethora of videos I have against Bane...she can WE(3) right through his body when he is pressuring with that charge move fully juiced. Also, I think it's a glitch, but in one of the set's against Endless-Red69's (the Bane I play like every day) the start up of Wing Evade has actually cancelled his charge move...like made him stop in his tracks as if the game decided to cancel the move...it's weird.

 

[Metzos]

I'm not exactly sure on what I'd label the MU, I have limited experience against competent DD's. However, I do know for a fact that she can avoid his teleport move with a Mace Charge and also I believe she can time a WE(2) right as he lands and full combo punish that move. I bring this up because her bad MU's tend to revolve around who can take her out of the air/ take away her lame factor.

With that said, HG has a solid ground/poke game and I always tend to interrupt his strings and pressure...I believe she can outplay him on the ground ( I have played one really good DD online and he couldn't beat me)....except his trait can be a problem.

At this point in time I'd label it a 5-5. They are both bully characters...their moves are designed to throw you into the corner which is truly where HawkGirl dominates...and correct me if I'm wrong, DD has a solid corner game as well. Hard for me to tell at this time due to lack of experience against him.

Same here, i havent played against a competent HG like...ever. Although i strongly believe that DD can shut down her aerial game with upward venom, thus making her trait ineffective in the particular MU. Yeah DD has also a very scary corner game as well. I can see it as a 5-5 atm as well.

 

[Boodendorf]

Same here, i havent played against a competent HG like...ever. Although i strongly believe that DD can shut down her aerial game with upward venom, thus making her trait ineffective in the particular MU. Yeah DD has also a very scary corner game as well. I can see it as a 5-5 atm as well.

I've played against a decent DD a lot, it's all about who can pressure the other first. 5-5, they both can take down a lot of stuff the other does.

 

[Tiger Wong]

I really want to face some really tough DDs as well so I can get a better hold on the matchup.

You can actually D2 Supernova clean if timed well. They both have good sweeps but not much else in terms of mixups. With meter, he can REALLY get in on you with Venom and I believe Venom MB is + on block? His dash is amazing. After NW, I think it's the best in the game. His sweep is great too.

Thing is, DD is a bit like Bane in that he's wide and tall and it's not as easy as others for him to get around a diagonal MT.
I wanna test some stuff against him. Like blocking (and punishing?) his ground pound MB and seeing what I can do vs his attacks after his Venom MB. And I gotta figure out how to block his air Venom MB too. I have trouble recognizing the ranges it can cross over.

 

[Metzos]

I really want to face some really tough DDs as well so I can get a better hold on the matchup.

You can actually D2 Supernova clean if timed well. They both have good sweeps but not much else in terms of mixups. With meter, he can REALLY get in on you with Venom and I believe Venom MB is + on block? His dash is amazing. After NW, I think it's the best in the game. His sweep is great too.

Thing is, DD is a bit like Bane in that he's wide and tall and it's not as easy as others for him to get around a diagonal MT.
I wanna test some stuff against him. Like blocking (and punishing?) his ground pound MB and seeing what I can do vs his attacks after his Venom MB. And I gotta figure out how to block his air Venom MB too. I have trouble recognizing the ranges it can cross over.

MB ES (ground pound) is +2f on block. Normal ES is -1f on block. After DD does MB Venom on block (the frame data says MB Venom is +6f on block but i believe its less, around at +3 or +4f) you should expect 3 follow ups. D3, throw, D1 to any specials (it usually is ES). D1xxES can be back dashed (ofc it depends on the dash the character has). D3 and throw attempt are a bit random at times, or its a just frame (i need to test them more). Air Venom acts like a cross-up when done from point blank range, so just block opposite the dive kick part. Keep in mind that if you back dash a blocked MB Venom and DD reads it he can punish your back dash with another venom or F2 follow up (F2 punish depends on how sucky opponents back dash is), so dont just back dash every blocked MB Venom. Push bloking works good as well.

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[Qwark28]

I've played against a decent DD a lot, it's all about who can pressure the other first. 5-5, they both can take down a lot of stuff the other does.

if you added me again after deleting me (?) we could play the matchup, ive added 11 characters to my roster since i got an xbox.

 

[Boodendorf]

if you added me again after deleting me (?) we could play the matchup, ive added 11 characters to my roster since i got an xbox.

I never deleted you, but everytime I saw you online you weren't playing ijustice. And where did Suomi go? I never see him online either these days.

 

[TurboTaco]

I think we need to reevaluate the Harley Quinn matchup. After playing against some good Harley Quinns I've found I cant get near them. I also watched Saltface (Harley Quinn) vs Trepound (Hawkgirl) and Harley just dominated the match. The match starts at 2:12:00 http://www.twitch.tv/funkyp/b/433895528

 

[TheSpore]

Thus far two matchups give me pure hell, which is Batgirl and Deathstroke. Batgirl really kills your air gameand well Deathstroke can really control the air too.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

Thus far two matchups give me pure hell, which is Batgirl and Deathstroke. Batgirl really kills your air gameand well Deathstroke can really control the air too.

Yeah those and Sinestro are Hawkgirl's utter shit MUs, I dont even bother picking HG in any of these and just use Raven now. The way this game works doesnt really allow much creativity or "tech" to help with alot of the shitty MUs so there's no point in suffering through the retarded MUs.

 

[TheSpore]

Yeah those and Sinestro are Hawkgirl's utter shit MUs, I dont even bother picking HG in any of these and just use Raven now. The way this game works doesnt really allow much creativity or "tech" to help with alot of the shitty MUs so there's no point in suffering through the retarded MUs.

Well Sinestro players don't give as much grief, you just gotta be grounded or as I do randomly take flight and drop quickly and be ready for some falling rocks and watch for wake-ups. Batgirl I think its just gonna be a matter of playing the patientce game and making sure to understand her mix-ups. One thing I have learned is that her D1 can give BG trouble.

 

[regulas]

Exactly Sinestro and BG are not so much bad match-ups just annoying ones because of the flight issues.

WW would probably be a bad matchup in the hands of a good player because she can directly counter too much of what HG does. I find DS or Cyborg can be more problematic, as there zoning is much harder to get around for HG.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

Well Sinestro players don't give as much grief, you just gotta be grounded or as I do randomly take flight and drop quickly and be ready for some falling rocks and watch for wake-ups. Batgirl I think its just gonna be a matter of playing the patientce game and making sure to understand her mix-ups. One thing I have learned is that her D1 can give BG trouble.

You cant fly at all against a good Sinestro, unfly has recovery and Sinestro can use shackles and catch you when you're landing. Plus once his trait goes up its game over for HG, no movement allowed <__>

Batgirl is more of less the same thing, the teleport clips HG's wings as you cant jump or fly without getting snatched. she can just keep zoning you with bola and batarangs and building meter while you're slowly inching in then she can derp with her batwheel thats a 50/50 for whatever fuckin reason or use the evade~1 move to fly fullscreen away and do the same thing again.
Thats just the optimal way, upclose she can use b12 which has enough range to whiff punish our d1 and go into her vortex, plus anti-airing her with d2 is omega risky as she can teleport and snatch that..
Its just a "no fun allowed" matchup as batgirl's dirt is much better while HG's is all nullified, you're better off playing another character even if you're not that good with them as you actually have tools to use if you do that.

DS is fucked too coz air guns and pizza cutter do the same thing which is nullify most of our tools.

I've yet to fight a decent Cyborg so i cant comment on that MU.

 

[TheSpore]

You cant fly at all against a good Sinestro, unfly has recovery and Sinestro can use shackles and catch you when you're landing. Plus once his trait goes up its game over for HG, no movement allowed <__>

Batgirl is more of less the same thing, the teleport clips HG's wings as you cant jump or fly without getting snatched. she can just keep zoning you with bola and batarangs and building meter while you're slowly inching in then she can derp with her batwheel thats a 50/50 for whatever fuckin reason or use the evade~1 move to fly fullscreen away and do the same thing again.
Thats just the optimal way, upclose she can use b12 which has enough range to whiff punish our d1 and go into her vortex, plus anti-airing her with d2 is omega risky as she can teleport and snatch that..
Its just a "no fun allowed" matchup as batgirl's dirt is much better while HG's is all nullified, you're better off playing another character even if you're not that good with them as you actually have tools to use if you do that.

DS is fucked too coz air guns and pizza cutter do the same thing which is nullify most of our tools.

I've yet to fight a decent Cyborg so i cant comment on that MU.

Yeah I owuld say your pretty much on the spot with BG and DS, though DS' zoning can be managible, but almost every tool BG has is like it was made with the intention of killing HG fast. I would say your best bet against BG is to try and bait that drop down attack for a good punish and go straight defensive against her. DS once you catch the basterd just be ready for those wake-ups and watch out for his cross-overs. Sinestro he is a bit more manageble though IMO, then again I've had to face quite a few Sinestros.

 

[shaowebb]

Huh...what made the Superman numbers drop from the 6-4 and 7-3 talk I'd heard here before? His block advantage or his own pressure up close?

 

[SaJa]

How can shazam win HG 6-4 Boodendorf ?.. It's because Len crashed you in the last tournament ? ^^
Len is a very good player that's all. He would be even better with a decent character.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

Supes MU

-
Damage difference
he builds more meter than you if you play the lame game from fullscreen
once he gets super MC and flying become unsafe (unless you end flight with getting a hit or an MB MT).

+
He cant zone hg as you can easily avoid all lasers and punish him for it as long as he isnt fullscreen away.
WE and MC fuck over alot of his strings and lows leaving f23 as his only option (granted thats all he does anyway but still) and you have tools that outrange that.
D2 kills his air pressure so he cant jump/airdash without getting smacked.
3~ WE tech beats all his wakeup options.

Thats off of my head, its basically even coz its winnable for both sides and you both have options to stop the other side's bs. It can be momentum based if its players that like to play lame and whoever gets the life lead gets the upper hand as the other person has to play their game and go to them.

 

[Boodendorf]

snip

You read it wrong, it's 6-4 in HG's favor.

 

[TheSpore]

You read it wrong, it's 6-4 in HG's favor.

Shazaam is a tough matchup! If the user knows how to use his teleports he can be a deadly opponent and that can shut down many of HG's tricks.

Flash is another match-u that can be very tough as well. Flash can lay down some real pressure and his RMS cancels can slip you up as well as his vibrate move can also be used with the RMS cancels to really confuse you. I'm gonna say this now and anyone can disagree, but Flash is gonna become the next Kabal .

 

[SaJa]

You read it wrong, it's 6-4 in HG's favor.

I should stop smoking then. ^^

 

[Tiger Wong]

Huh...what made the Superman numbers drop from the 6-4 and 7-3 talk I'd heard here before? His block advantage or his own pressure up close?

I didn't check the chart but afaic it's 6-4 HG.

Superman can deal more damage obviously and he can convert random hits into big damage. Also, when he gets super he can punish just about anything HG does.

But other than that, HG gives him problems like nobody's business. His f23/f23 breath shenanigans are completely covered by MC and WE3. He can't play lame because we bone him from long range. All his air dash nonsense gets boned by D2. And D1 is better than anything he has in that range.

And as mentioned, 3~We tech gives him the business on wakeup, he either gets comboed or it's free pressure for HG.

 

[TheSpore]

I didn't check the chart but afaic it's 6-4 HG.

Superman can deal more damage obviously and he can convert random hits into big damage. Also, when he gets super he can punish just about anything HG does.

But other than that, HG gives him problems like nobody's business. His f23/f23 breath shenanigans are completely covered by MC and WE3. He can't play lame because we bone him from long range. All his air dash nonsense gets boned by D2. And D1 is better than anything he has in that range.

And as mentioned, 3~We tech gives him the business on wakeup, he either gets comboed or it's free pressure for HG.

That 3~WE idea is interesting never though about that. His F23 Breath attack is easily reversed by HG's MC. I'de 6-4 is about right for a Supes match. She can easily kill his zoning with flight and horizontal MTs as well even evading his zoning is easy. Also if at full screen you actually fly almost mid screen and catch him with a MC in the air when he starts that bs laser jumping laser game.