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Why zoning is such a problem in injustice..

The_Atom45

The_Atom45

Noob
I'd hate to post a sort or rant thread for my first post but I think I want to voice my opinion on this.

(Okay these problems are ones that mostly causals face like me NOT HARDCORE PLAYERS, and yes Im still getting backlash but this is mostly meant for casuals and average players)

Now by all means I'm not hating on injustice at ALL! I'm just pointing out a problem of zoning in injusitce and why it has become such a problem, there's 3 main reasons for this.. Now lets see them shall we ?


1. Almost every character in Injustice has full screen zoning...
Okay so for me this is big because characters like sinestro, raven , cyborg , green arrow, superman, etc. all have full screen zoning that is almost impossible for any casual player to dash in on them. Also the almost every character has an anti air attack so it's near impossible for the other player to get the jump on them, then the dash is not fast enough to get through the zoning. So basically there are too many characters with zoning oh and don't even get me started with cyborg and raven ...

2. There is no dedicated block button..
In injustice the block button has been replaced with the more traditional back l3, this makes it hard to get past zoning because in order to block it essentially forces your character to back up or you can Croutch and hold back (but that is almost useless at full screen because of specials like superman's laser beam MB ). Overall blocking in Injustice is not great like many players have pointed out...

3. There is too much screen space in between characters..
This one I think is the biggest problem because, the screen space in injustice encourages keep away play. This is also the reason why characters like cyborg and superman can be played with strictly keep away/ zoning because the screen space is so large in between players. This makes it almost impossible for characters like Lobo too win because the other player just dashes across screen and plays keep away the whole match and just zones him out e whole match ..
- feel free to reply negatively or positively. Let me know if you agree with me that these are the problems to the zoning problem in injustice. Also once again I'm not trying to rant, just pointing out problems that I beilive are the problem..
 
KIllaByte

KIllaByte

PSN: playakid700. Local name: BFGC MonkeyBizness
The zoomed out camera and screen space exist to guarantee that the players know the geography of the stage they're playing on, allowing us to see the interactables we have access to. This can't be changed.

Sometimes you'll have to walk back to block an overhead projectile, man. It happens. The only way you can counteract these matchup specific problems is to be gaining ground faster than you lose it from your back-walk.

Grinding matchups is the way to get this stuff done. Find a player dedicated to the character you hate, and play 15 matches against them, in a row, without switching characters. Your thoughts on that character will have changed, sometimes dramatically. You'll make a discovery, or formulate a strategy, if you stay open-minded in the matchup.

You can't really improve by playing KOTH, and having to wait after losing..
It's gotta be 1v1, until you're completely familiar with the opponents tool set.
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
You can make better arguments than that op


  • no air blocking
  • not everyone has an air dash
  • slow walk speed
  • no wave dash/block dash
  • clashes favor zoning by putting you full screen
  • transitions favor zoning by seperating you both
  • stage hazards are high damage and promote players to run away and use them or run away from them rather than get in each others face.
If you're gonna gripe do it for the main reasons that center on how mobility works in this game and what promotes spacing in this game. Also there is nothing wrong with the blocking in this game. Its directional and folks have done it for years. Plus this game allows you to simply push DOWN and have it count as a block so I dont know where you get the notion that directional blocking means you always backup or have to crouch. You have several options and the block doesn't negatively effect your ability to move forward at all.
 
The_Atom45

The_Atom45

Noob
shaowebb said:
You can make better arguments than that op


  • no air blocking
  • not everyone has an air dash
  • slow walk speed
  • no wave dash/block dash
  • clashes favor zoning by putting you full screen
  • transitions favor zoning by seperating you both
  • stage hazards are high damage and promote players to run away and use them or run away from them rather than get in each others face.
If you're gonna gripe do it for the main reasons that center on how mobility works in this game and what promotes spacing in this game. Also there is nothing wrong with the blocking in this game. Its directional and folks have done it for years. Plus this game allows you to simply push DOWN and have it count as a block so I dont know where you get the notion that directional blocking means you always backup or have to crouch. You have several options and the block doesn't negatively effect your ability to move forward at all.
Click to expand...
- Well actually those are better points lol it's that I'm not a very hardcore fighter but the thing is many youtubers and even some of my fiends have all said injustice is pretty much about zoning, so I kind of rushed this thread to attck this topic and I know it's not very polished or smart but I just wanted to see if anyone agreed
 
The_Atom45

The_Atom45

Noob
SilverKeyMan said:
How to address problems in games, the workplace, relationships, or life:
  • Option A: Bitch about it.
  • Option B: Look for a solution.
Click to expand...

-I'm sorry that I'm not a hardcore injustice player who spends all day playing it. But it is partially my fault that I forgot to say zoning is a problem for mostly causal players like me, but just some food for thought have you played as Grundy against a superman on ferris ? But zoning in most matches are keep away unless you go to Ranked (but I usually get my ass handled so I stay on player match)
 
MagicMan357

MagicMan357

"130 ms is more legit than Labbing" - TYM
The_Atom45 said:
-I'm sorry that I'm not a hardcore injustice player who spends all day playing it. But it is partially my fault that I forgot to say zoning is a problem for mostly causal players like me, but just some food for thought have you played as Grundy against a superman on ferris ? But zoning in most matches are keep away unless you go to Ranked (but I usually get my ass handled so I stay on player match)
Click to expand...

The common excuse for scrubs "I DONT PLAY ALL DAY!!!" Well then why did you make this thread? Laziness at its finest.
 
Hellion_96

Hellion_96

xX_Hellion96_Xx
The funny thing is all the characters without real projectiles get in easier than characters with good zoning options. Flash has like 5 options to get around zoning and interactables, bane has armor out his ass and once he knocks you down you're in a messed up situation, grundy has fast dash armor and his no chip chain, catwomen has armor dash and evade. When i play against deathstroke or sinestro i'd much rather be flash than green lantern or aquaman.
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Your first point went out the window when you mentioned "casual players". Just saying, ANY type of keepaway in any 2D game is generally a huge hurdle for anyone who only plays fighting games on an extremely casual level.

The second point doesn't make any sense, considering back to block exists in MANY 2D fighters, where keepaway actually isn't that strong.

Third argument holds actual weight...that is a legit thing boosting keepaway's viability. But considering that most projectiles in the game are either extremely disadvantageous on block, can be crouched, have slow startup, don't control much space, or are a combination of any of these (even all of the above), and on top of the fact that dashes in this game cover huge amounts of ground in such short bursts, results in a game where keepaway can only really thrive from mechanics such as pushblock, clash, and the like if said problems are not directly addressed.
 
The_Atom45

The_Atom45

Noob
THTB said:
Your first point went out the window when you mentioned "casual players". Just saying, ANY type of keepaway in any 2D game is generally a huge hurdle for anyone who only plays fighting games on an extremely casual level.

The second point doesn't make any sense, considering back to block exists in MANY 2D fighters, where keepaway actually isn't that strong.

Third argument holds actual weight...that is a legit thing boosting keepaway's viability. But considering that most projectiles in the game are either extremely disadvantageous on block, can be crouched, have slow startup, don't control much space, or are a combination of any of these (even all of the above), and on top of the fact that dashes in this game cover huge amounts of ground in such short bursts, results in a game where keepaway can only really thrive from mechanics such as pushblock, clash, and the like if said problems are not directly addressed.
Click to expand...

-Well I'm not a extreme casual, and it's just that I'm not as hardcore as some of the members on here . But about the blocking in injustice I meant that because of the way injusitce is and not having a dedicated block button is why I see it as a problem.. Also about Croutch blocking I've already said why this does not work but the reason why Croutch blocking is not too good is because many of characters have MB's that affect you if you don't standup block.
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
The_Atom45 said:
-Well I'm not a extreme casual, and it's just that I'm not as hardcore as some of the members on here . But about the blocking in injustice I meant that because of the way injusitce is and not having a dedicated block button is why I see it as a problem.. Also about Croutch blocking I've already said why this does not work but the reason why Croutch blocking is not too good is because many of characters have MB's that affect you if you don't standup block.
Click to expand...
The back to block is not a problem, at all. Even in the case of an overhead projectile, you can wait until the very last second. They're generally easy to react to, and the only reason you wouldn't be able to is if they're done practically right in your face or a little further out.
 
The_Atom45

The_Atom45

Noob
THTB said:
The back to block is not a problem, at all. Even in the case of an overhead projectile, you can wait until the very last second. They're generally easy to react to, and the only reason you wouldn't be able to is if they're done practically right in your face or a little further out.
Click to expand...
- yeah I guess you are correct but it's very hard maining a character with basically no zoning because I use Grundy and lobo a lot so it's just very hard to get past those overheads and full screen zoning.. But also chip damage is pretty bad to because by the time I'm able to get in a zoners face half my bar is already gone..
 
RM Jonnitti

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
The_Atom45 said:
- yeah I guess you are correct but it's very hard maining a character with basically no zoning because I use Grundy and lobo a lot so it's just very hard to get past those overheads and full screen zoning.. But also chip damage is pretty bad to because by the time I'm able to get in a zoners face half my bar is already gone..
Click to expand...

grundy you need to use walking corpse cancels to get in and shit. you also have swamp hands. cant say much about lobo cuz nobody really plays him
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
The_Atom45 said:
- yeah I guess you are correct but it's very hard maining a character with basically no zoning because I use Grundy and lobo a lot so it's just very hard to get past those overheads and full screen zoning.. But also chip damage is pretty bad to because by the time I'm able to get in a zoners face half my bar is already gone..
Click to expand...
Grundy has walking corpse, a fast dash, and MB swamp hands. These options can lead to combos into either his health or defense chain throw, which makes him even harder to lame out with a projectile game.

Lobo is a legit complaint, though he posesses one of the better forward dashes in the game, due to its extra property of avoiding high projectiles. So it's not entirely that bad for him.

Also, chip damage is MINIMAL in this game, considering how easy it can be to traverse projectiles. When there are quite a few high projectiles unless they are MB'd, this also mitigates that issue.

In all honesty, it just seems like you probably are simply not experienced in dealing with projectiles yet. Because all of these complaints can generally be solved by getting used to it all.
 
The_Atom45

The_Atom45

Noob
THTB said:
Grundy has walking corpse, a fast dash, and MB swamp hands. These options can lead to combos into either his health or defense chain throw, which makes him even harder to lame out with a projectile game.

Lobo is a legit complaint, though he posesses one of the better forward dashes in the game, due to its extra property of avoiding high projectiles. So it's not entirely that bad for him.

Also, chip damage is MINIMAL in this game, considering how easy it can be to traverse projectiles. When there are quite a few high projectiles unless they are MB'd, this also mitigates that issue.

In all honesty, it just seems like you probably are simply not experienced in dealing with projectiles yet. Because all of these complaints can generally be solved by getting used to it all.
Click to expand...
- I guess yeah but I would love if someone could like show me how get past projectiles.. But I'm probably just going to delete this thread because all the hardcore commutiny is already chewing me to pieces :(
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
The_Atom45 said:
- I guess yeah but I would love if someone could like show me how get past projectiles.. But I'm probably just going to delete this thread because all the hardcore commutiny is already chewing me to pieces :(
Click to expand...
Don't worry, I'm actually legit trying to help lol. A lot of these issues just seem to stem from inexperience with getting past projectiles, and in that case, I'm simply posting to help...though my first post didn't really help much lol.

Like, what projectiles in particular give you the most trouble?
 
The_Atom45

The_Atom45

Noob
THTB said:
Don't worry, I'm actually legit trying to help lol. A lot of these issues just seem to stem from inexperience with getting past projectiles, and in that case, I'm simply posting to help...though my first post didn't really help much lol.

Like, what projectiles in particular give you the most trouble?
Click to expand...
- nah you're fine and I guess because I'm inexperienced with getting past these kinds of things but thanks for not hating and actually showing me things to get past it, I appreciate it. But usually Sinestros projectiles give me the most trouble and its so hard to get up close to him he just has so much keep away
 
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