Injustice Post Evo Question: Numbers after Evo

[KDZ]

It's not true, because I played Slayer myself and got through the lasers, because I know their weakpoint. If you standblock the Zap you got what you deserved. His zoning is good for one thing: meter gain. Also it's a litmus test for a player, whether or not they can make you try harder.

His rushdown is incredible, his pressure is incredible, his damage in the corner is incredible. His zoning on the other hand, flat out loses to a lot of characters.

 

[shoshinsha]

No.
Superman is NOT even CLOSE to the most dominant point blank. He dominates from 1-3 character lengths away. Point blank a LOT of characters have options for him, either flat out beating him or making his life a constant battle.

I understand what you're saying, but let me ask you this:
Who has the tools to beat Superman's "package"? By this I mean that, if he's strong in mid-range but (as you say) has a mediocre ranged game and is beatable "point blank," then there should be characters who can rush him down all day, and characters who can make him work really hard to get in. As long as those characters stay out of his optimal 1-3 CL range, they should dominate. Who are they?

 

[Duck Nation]

Well yea, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be bad MUs or that it is impossible for a mid tier character to place. All i'm saying is that bad MUs shouldn't be impossible (Lex vs Sinestro, Sinestro vs Aqua). I just don't get why a designer would make some characters that have glaring weaknesses and others who have almost every tool you could ask for. It kills the game.

I don't think this was their intention by any stretch of the imagination. Lex has tons of tools. So does Sinestro. So does Hawkgirl. They just get countered in silly ways, and stuff that slipped through testing. I would certainly never disagree that it'd be a good thing to fix these matches - and let's be realistic here, the weird outlier matchups are the worst issue with the game's balance - it's not going to be easy to fix because basically all of the characters who lose a handful of matchups really hard are also 5-5 against many others. Finding a way to fix those matches without screwing up the rest of them is a non-trivial task.

 

[KDZ]

You mean characters like Flash and WW and Batman, who can rush him down all day?
Or do you mean like Harley Quinn, Cyborg, and Deathstroke, who make him work super hard to get in?

His goal is to play that 1-3CL game vs everyone.

 

[Doombawkz]

I don't think this was their intention by any stretch of the imagination. Lex has tons of tools. So does Sinestro. So does Hawkgirl. They just get countered in silly ways, and stuff that slipped through testing. I would certainly never disagree that it'd be a good thing to fix these matches - and let's be realistic here, the weird outlier matchups are the worst issue with the game's balance - it's not going to be easy to fix because basically all of the characters who lose a handful of matchups really hard are also 5-5 against many others. Finding a way to fix those matches without screwing up the rest of them is a non-trivial task.

Make BlAdam, Nightwang, and Flash a 5-5 for Bane, and my body will be ready.

(Make MB lightning count as a projectile, Make flying Dicks less flying Dick, and remove flash from the game, basically)

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

What's funny is I was actually trying to argue with people that Harley could out zone Superman. But that's an exception. Like I said, I was just trying to point out why he was good. He doesn't have any one thing that's amazing aside from his frame traps. It's the combination of things. I also think his zoning is better than you say it is, but until I understand the match up better I'll just hold that as lack of DD/Superman knowledge.

 

[shoshinsha]

I just feel Superman needs a weakness. He needs something significant where, if you get Superman into X situation, he really struggles. Every character should have that.

 

[Doombawkz]

I just feel Superman needs a weakness. He needs something significant where, if you get Superman into X situation, he really struggles. Every character should have that.

Kryptonite

 

[Big Pampering]

how the hell are people going to compare street fighter frame data to injustice frame data, they are completely different engines and projectiles dont even trade in injustice. Supermans projectiles serve their purpose and and you wouldn't view it as mediocre just because they can't keep somebody out the whole match. the lasers build meter and do good chip. don't kabals gas blast serve the same purpose? somebody who knows how to get around gas blast wont really get hit by them but kabal players still do it for the meter they build. and once you get in that footsie range he is going to f4/32 you or whatever string, doesnt that sound familiar?

 

[Jimmypotato]

i hope thats a joke

winky face Pig, winky face

 

[xWildx]

This game has too many damn unseeable 50/50's, every time someone jumps in on you it turns into a guessing game. Then if you happen to guess right it barely even matters, because pretty much everyone can just end combos with a safe special and be done with it.

That, and I think d1's are ridiculous in this game. Up close it becomes a matter of mashing d1 to go under any highs and potentially go right into a combo starting special. SF combated this by making links off light attacks pretty difficult, so why the fastest attack in a character's arsenal that also happens to duck highs can start a combo is beyond me.

 

[Drumslinger]

I just feel Superman needs a weakness. He needs something significant where, if you get Superman into X situation, he really struggles. Every character should have that.

His wake up game is pretty awful, which makes it very difficult (for me, at least) to get out of a corner if someone puts me there.

He's also almost completely dependant on the F2 starter. I would count that as a weakness.

I agree his rushdown is amazing, and while his zoning isn't bad, it's certainly not the end-all-be-all-ultimate zoning toolbox in the game. A big part of the mindset behind playing an effective Superman is punishment. He's built to make you think twice about taking a risk up close to him that may not pay off, because his opponents mistakes are what really makes his F2 so devastating. Take away it's speed and it's useless as a punisher, removing a huge chunk of Superman's entire game.

I would argue that if you nerf the F2 too much, you take away his viability as a character.

 

[CHAINSAW305]

WoundCowboy has dropped sinestro for black Adam

I might be only one left w p2w

Though I too am picking up a god tier in this game

I'd hate to see your Sinestro go dewd.

 

[LEGEND]

Why is NW so bad

it 5-5

if there's any MU i know with any character, its the NW MU

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Well yea, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be bad MUs or that it is impossible for a mid tier character to place. All i'm saying is that bad MUs shouldn't be impossible (Lex vs Sinestro, Sinestro vs Aqua). I just don't get why a designer would make some characters that have glaring weaknesses and others who have almost every tool you could ask for. It kills the game.

Oh ikr, scorpion vs cyrax lmao haha that MU sucks. Other terrible matchups in games are like akuma vs zangief. That is just how fighting games are unfortunately.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Ranmasama got top 16 with a 1 day superman.

Mf slayer made top 8 with a week old superman.

Its simple to place with him. Now imagine dedicating time. You will win free.

I wemt 3-2 in mm$ against rico with a 5 hour superman. He plays vs the char a ton yet I stood a chance? Lol

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

Ranmasama played superman at CEO. For the love of God can you people get your facts straight.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

how the hell are people going to compare street fighter frame data to injustice frame data, they are completely different engines and projectiles dont even trade in injustice. Supermans projectiles serve their purpose and and you wouldn't view it as mediocre just because they can't keep somebody out the whole match. the lasers build meter and do good chip. don't kabals gas blast serve the same purpose? somebody who knows how to get around gas blast wont really get hit by them but kabal players still do it for the meter they build. and once you get in that footsie range he is going to f4/32 you or whatever string, doesnt that sound familiar?

quite true, projectiles always serve a purpose. Once superman gets that meter, 2 frame super time. Also he can use the meter for other deadly setups and combos and etc. All I know is, superman doesn't lose to anyone, which means he is in the talks of being number one without a doubt. But like I said before, we got to grind the matchup and find ways to deal with him, we dnt want a superman player to win evo again.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

A perfect fighting game would have every single character in the game a 5-5 matchup with every other character. So people would actually choose characters that they like, not just choose a character on how good they are. But obviously it is way too hard to make a fighting game like that, I don't think any fighting game is close to balanced. Honestly I feel like MK9 is decently balanced compared to alot of fighting games tho

Look at Marvel, if you're not Zero Vergil Dante Doom Mags or Soul fist, your basically not playing lol. I don't feel like MK9 has come to that point yet

what about jwong and angelic (2nd and 3rd at evo this year) , they use unique teams and get the job done, the player's skill always comes into play even tho their is clear imbalance in fighting games.

 

[Justice]

I firmly believe that Catwoman can beat the characters on people's Top 5 lists posted in this thread (with varying degrees of difficulty of course). So if she can do it, anyone can do it right?

And how much longer are we going to hide behind the "game's only been out for 3 months" excuse? Even at 1 hr a day, that's still roughly 90 hrs of dedicated gameplay. Most players don't even play one game that long. If after 3 months we aren't finding dirt, it's because too many people are giving up and going to the known evil instead of developing their fave characters.

And Perfect Legend: I have a good ps3. Come at me bro

 

[Zoidberg747]

I feel ppl should use who suits them. Look at SF4, a talented gen player just one evo. Hard work and dedication pays off in the end. Also there was a makoto in the top 8 of evo this year and balrog (and balrog has been nerfed a lot). You just got top 8 with shang despite all the bad mus he has. Next year in IGAU, I know we will see a character like raven in the top 8, it is bound to happen.

How about how Green Arrow got third. Have we forgotten about that?

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

How about how Green Arrow got third. Have we forgotten about that?

exactly, this game has plenty of viable characters. Of course most will use supes, BA, and etc. because it is early, but things will change.

 

[xWildx]

Stupid, male characters. With their crazy good setups, 50% unclashables, corner combos, dive kicks, and might. We need to see some more finesse in the top 8, filled with pounces, cupcakes, and tiaras.

 

[16 Bit]

Stupid, male characters. With their crazy good setups, 50% unclashables, corner combos, dive kicks, and might. We need to see some more finesse in the top 8, filled with pounces, cupcakes, and tiaras.

I agree. I will try to bring some feline finesse to the top 8 but will probably get bodied in pools.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Make BlAdam, Nightwang, and Flash a 5-5 for Bane, and my body will be ready.

(Make MB lightning count as a projectile, Make flying Dicks less flying Dick, and remove flash from the game, basically)

You can d2 flying Grayson on reaction or you can just duck it and whiff punish.

Bane/NW is 6-4 NW because NW has the fastest multi-hitting strings in the game. Staff is the least of your problems in this game.

 

[STRYKIE]

Well yea, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be bad MUs or that it is impossible for a mid tier character to place. All i'm saying is that bad MUs shouldn't be impossible (Lex vs Sinestro, Sinestro vs Aqua). I just don't get why a designer would make some characters that have glaring weaknesses and others who have almost every tool you could ask for. It kills the game.

There was a time where Shang vs CSZ and Mileena vs Reptile were considered impossible matchups. And Cage vs Scorpion was considered even. Think about that for a second.

This time next year, you could be going 5-5 with Aquaman and getting 8-2'd by Joker. lol