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YOMI LIVING MATCH UP CHART (FIRST DRAFT) v1.0 - 7-2-15 Tremor Patch

gam224

gam224

The world's least hype player
infamy23 said:
You are just making statements and ignoring all of the evidence that is being presented to you.

Fox punishes Pig's bf3 THREE TIMES in the first game with the exact technique that I showed you in my video, and he blocked every single overhead slash.

Kenshi cannot zone Kitana and that is not debatable. It's a fact, based on the FACT that Kenshi's full screen moves are easily countered.

If Kitana can't do anything to Kenshi up close, then how did Pig lose the first game? How did he get hit by the overhead? the b14 into a 50% combo? the fake cross up into njp full combo? the fake njp into throw?

Why didn't Pig just block low all day and react to her apparently useless overheads and then win with ease?

I'll tell you why, because when Kitana is bulldogging through your projectiles and putting you in the corner, you are going to get hit by stuff regardless of how bad you think her mix-ups are.

Kenshi spends that matchup with his back against the wall. He is forced to make hard reads that leave him at -17 if he is wrong. If he goes for EXdb1 on wakeup, she punishes for 50 fucking percent.

Stop making general statements like "he outzones her" and start giving me concrete examples of how exactly he does this. I am offering you real world examples of his projectile being full combo punished, and the best Kenshi in the world getting hit by her non-existent mix-ups.
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Pig SHOULD have blocked low and reacted to the lows. He is human and makes mistakes. Further more sonic fox is just the better player. Sonic fox is some sort of freak of nature IMO i don't know how he does it. Your problem is that i said that Kenshi outzones Kitana so let me ask you how much zoning did sonic fox do? seemed like he was getting in to me. I am not ignoring your evidence i just think that Kitana's doesn't win.
 
infamy23

infamy23

FireBeard
gam224 said:
Pig SHOULD have blocked low and reacted to the lows. He is human and makes mistakes. Further more sonic fox is just the better player. Sonic fox is some sort of freak of nature IMO i don't know how he does it. Your problem is that i said that Kenshi outzones Kitana so let me ask you how much zoning did sonic fox do? seemed like he was getting in to me. I am not ignoring your evidence i just think that Kitana's doesn't win.
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Fox didn't do any zoning, because that is not how you play the match. You play it by getting in, and pressuring, which is what he did.

If you are just gonna sit back and throw fans then of course Kenshi is going to beat you.

You gotta get in, punish his whiffed bf3, put him in the corner, pressure with frame traps, throws, overhead, lows, and float mix-ups. Bait his EXdb1 because you know it's coming, and punish it with f1.

I'm not saying Kitana wins, I'm saying the match is even because I don't see any clear advantage on either side. The winner is decided by who makes less mistakes and better reads.
 
K

Kval2point001

Noob
YOMI REO said:
Hey guys, we will be updating this match up chart with some new variations like Cutthroat Kano after Summer Jam (thanks @Derptile & @Coachsteve). We're just busy right now with training for Summer Jam since it's in a few days.

@Kval2point001, I'm interested in receiving a copy of that sheet.



Which ones? @YOMI Zyphox is the one who did the Liu Kang numbers so I'm sure you guys can discuss it in here.



Possibly for now. But you have to take any placements listed right now with a grain of salt since the match up chart is not complete and is missing over 50 variations.
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@YOMI REO which email address would you like it sending too?
 
YoloRoll1stHit

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
KillaGthug4Life said:
I know Bone Shaper Shinnok is mindlessly good from my online play, but is he really so mindless that he only has 2-4 even matchups? And not a single losing matchup?

I only play D'vorah and I know it isn't my favorite matchup against him, but there has got to be someone who has an advantage on him.
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Probably next broken DLC (Batgirl for example)
 
KidVanDal

KidVanDal

Noob
infamy23 said:
Fox didn't do any zoning, because that is not how you play the match. You play it by getting in, and pressuring, which is what he did.

If you are just gonna sit back and throw fans then of course Kenshi is going to beat you.

You gotta get in, punish his whiffed bf3, put him in the corner, pressure with frame traps, throws, overhead, lows, and float mix-ups. Bait his EXdb1 because you know it's coming, and punish it with f1.

I'm not saying Kitana wins, I'm saying the match is even because I don't see any clear advantage on either side. The winner is decided by who makes less mistakes and better reads.
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See I was kinda thinking she could outzone him if he keeps trying to TF full screen, since every whiffed TF gives you 20%+ unbreakable dmg for one bar.

But any Kenshi that plays like that against Kitana is not playing at the highest level anyways..
 
gam224

gam224

The world's least hype player
infamy23 said:
Fox didn't do any zoning, because that is not how you play the match. You play it by getting in, and pressuring, which is what he did.

If you are just gonna sit back and throw fans then of course Kenshi is going to beat you.

You gotta get in, punish his whiffed bf3, put him in the corner, pressure with frame traps, throws, overhead, lows, and float mix-ups. Bait his EXdb1 because you know it's coming, and punish it with f1.

I'm not saying Kitana wins, I'm saying the match is even because I don't see any clear advantage on either side. The winner is decided by who makes less mistakes and better reads.
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Unlike in most match ups which i would agree with you not for kitana because her mix ups are non existant. If her overhead were ten frames faster i would agree with you but as it stands she can't really mix up kenshi or any character without X-ray
 
KidVanDal

KidVanDal

Noob
gam224 said:
Unlike in most match ups which i would agree with you not for kitana because her mix ups are non existant. If her overhead were ten frames faster i would agree with you but as it stands she can't really mix up kenshi or any character without X-ray
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Kenshi has god like mix ups!!








:DOGE
 
N

Noobe

Noob
Youphemism said:
Ah ok cool, thanks. I'll play it some more when I can and test that out.

@Noobe could you explain why you feel he beats Balanced?
@YOMI RM SaltFace care to explain why you think Mileena beats Cybernetic Kano?
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Well to me it's pretty simple. When it comes to balance. All it takes is one mistake and kano is in there with full combo damage. If he does the flurry at any point and its ducked. Run in for a full combo from midscreeen.

Once kano is in on him frame traps all day. Kenshis normals are bad so he needs bar for armor. Once cyber is in on him it's hard for him to get him off. And if he does its not that hard fot kano to get back in. I don't know how much he has changed since the latest patch. But last I checked he beats him pretty bad in my view. I played djt kenshi at ceo and proved it to him also. And now kano cyber has only gotten better since the last patch. So if there isn't any significant changes then it stays the same but worse.

And not to mention he has to be careful reflecting because one bad reflect can be run in on from full screen for full combo.
 
N

Noobe

Noob
Also regarding cyber vs predator I don't think he loses to him at all. In fact I think kano beats predator 6-4 at a minimum for hunter. Hish qu ten maybe 5-5 because of his zoning but over all its the same story all around. Once kano knocks him down or is in his face. Predator can't do a whole lot of nothing to get him off of him. And also he can't wake up at all because of his 1,1 breaking his armor easily. Predators bad buttons get him mauled.


Also when it comes to mileena I don't think he loses. But to be fair I have only played one mileena. But the little I gathered from that it's not bad at all.
 
ragnar0kz28

ragnar0kz28

Noob
Why Is Kitana 5/5 vs Balanced Kenshi? care to explain? I use assassin the most, I agree on this chart as an assassin player besides cassie, she needs to respect parrys and ground fans at some distance in fear of eating AS, I play this match extensively with a training buddy feels even vs Hollywood and Brawler. Please quoteme explaining why Kenshi and Kitana go even!
 
gam224

gam224

The world's least hype player
ragnar0kz28 said:
Why Is Kitana 5/5 vs Balanced Kenshi? care to explain? I use assassin the most, I agree on this chart as an assassin player besides cassie, she needs to respect parrys and ground fans at some distance in fear of eating AS, I play this match extensively with a training buddy feels even vs Hollywood and Brawler. Please quoteme explaining why Kenshi and Kitana go even!
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Kenshi Down play is how he goes even
 
YoloRoll1stHit

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
ragnar0kz28 said:
Why? I feel I get out zoned, out spaced, armored when I jump in, there are very few people that play Kenshi so no match exp to really see what to do.
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I rarely play that matchup too. But I said that based on Khaotik's opinion (a Royal Storm loyalist) and Pig of the hut himself. She can actually throw some fans, fans WIN the trade with Kenshi's BF3 (the move that has 1 million recovery on whiff, I forgot the name) because it doesn't have a chance to finish. Also Kitana's frame data upclose looks better than Kenshi's (gapless strings, safe launcher, plus on block pressure). Most importantly, her damage overwhelms Kenshi.
And here's the problem with Kenshi's zoning against Kitana. She walks extremely fast and Kenshi can't rely on the overhead sword an shoulder (which can be jumped over for full combo punish) to keep her out. He must sometimes commit to the BF3, which has terrible recovery on whiff. If she guesses right she gets a full combo punish from fullscreen away using ex lift in royal storm. However, this patch nerfed her damage scaling from fans and lift, so her fullscreen combos do ~ 22% only. In Assasin, she can just go for ex run to punish whiffed BF3 for 19% and she ends up right in his face.
 
ragnar0kz28

ragnar0kz28

Noob
YoloRoll1stHit said:
I rarely play that matchup too. But I said that based on Khaotik's opinion (a Royal Storm loyalist) and Pig of the hut himself. She can actually throw some fans, fans WIN the trade with Kenshi's BF3 (the move that has 1 million recovery on whiff, I forgot the name) because it doesn't have a chance to finish. Also Kitana's frame data upclose looks better than Kenshi's (gapless strings, safe launcher, plus on block pressure). Most importantly, her damage overwhelms Kenshi.
And here's the problem with Kenshi's zoning against Kitana. She walks extremely fast and Kenshi can't rely on the overhead sword an shoulder (which can be jumped over for full combo punish) to keep her out. He must sometimes commit to the BF3, which has terrible recovery on whiff. If she guesses right she gets a full combo punish from fullscreen away using ex lift in royal storm. However, this patch nerfed her damage scaling from fans and lift, so her fullscreen combos do ~ 22% only. In Assasin, she can just go for ex run to punish whiffed BF3 for 19% and she ends up right in his face.
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thnx I will test this more at our nationals in 3 weeks. This and HQT are my worst matches.
 
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