Who do you think is Bottom 5?

[scarsunseen]

1) High Tech Jacqui
2) High Tech Jacqui
3) High Tech Jacqui
4) High Tech Jacqui
5) High Tech Jacqui

 

[ATIWAB]

Btw I'm listening

Check out the PnG cancels on Ruthless since patch.

Easy as hell to pull off with a basic 11 string, comes with built in damage buff + 2 hits of armor in case you're too lazy to hit confirm, the damage buff stacks three times. You end up with effortless meterless 37s, 50+ if you put a little more work into it.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Is ok to consider Mileena is bottom 5. But considering her BAD? Nopeeee! She is good!! Bottom 5 or not she is most likely in the bottom of the tier list, and that doesn't mean that she is bad.

I agree with SaltFace that just because she is unsafe it doesn't mean we will yolo 24/7. She is pretty unsafe, yes, but it's our work to play her as safe as possible. If you think you can just sit there and let Mileena yolo her way to the win, you're screwed.

 

[haketh]

I've only read the first page so far, but why is everyone saying Goro is bad?

Hasn't he been consistently getring buffs?

What's wrong with him now?

@Espio

People not knowing anything about the character, people are really saying his problem is he's unsafe

 

[cR Biohazard]

@Pig Of The Hut Let me know when you want to get in some games, I can play on Xbox or PS4, PS4 is preferred. Never got to learn the Kenshi MU so I could use the experience even if he's not a very good character as everyone says

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

@Pig Of The Hut Let me know when you want to get in some games, I can play on Xbox or PS4, PS4 is preferred. Never got to learn the Kenshi MU so I could use the experience even if he's not a very good character as everyone says

Sounds good

And yea I may not have yomi in front of my Tym name but I do know what I'm talking about

Kenshi is Garbo

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

@GGA pimpimjim can u explain why u feel Liu Kang is bottom 5?

 

[Doombawkz]

I'll be the first to tell you I know next to literally nothing about Ferra tor however I've played many and not once did I ever feel a threat

this one I could be really wrong about and would be happy to be but in my 5 months experience I've yet to see one player use FT in a defensive or offensive oppressive and impressive way

Every FT looks the same, dull,
Boring and fair. let me tell you what works in this game and is an example or a characteristic of tournamen viable

FT block string ends in 50/50 and hits the OH or low. They're now planted

Erron black hits a low and it's either +7 or 40% into another guess

Same w the rest of the cast

If FT low vicious or OH vicious launched then we would be talking about a MKX character until then overall he seems hella fair and dull.

This is a quick example, I'm open to seeing any FT gameplay and being explained otherwise what makes FT so good but until I see any that impress me I'll remain intact the character is meh

I don't blame you for feelin this way, but trust in me @Pig Of The Hut .
There are things happening behind the scenes that we simply aren't ready to release out yet because its not where it needs to be.
There are players still working with the tools (also Kenshi happens to be a really really bad MU for us), but believe me when I say he only seems meh on the surface.


So if you could, just hold a grain of doubt for F/T being bottom 5. These kinds of things take time.
Don't base it on what you've seen, blind swordsman, but on what you've yet to see.

 

[NorCalSamurai]

All these people saying "jacqui/goro/kano/mileena/jason is not that bad" are right, but are also missing the point. They're not bad, you're correct, but when compared to the rest of the cast, they are on the lower end of the spectrum. Everyone in this game has at least one tournament viable variation.

The game seems better balanced than IGAU right now, which I think is awesome. Reminds me of TTT2 in that even the "lower-tier" characters like Yoshimitsu, Ling, or in our case, Kano, Jason etc, are still capable of winning matches at a high level against almost the entire cast. Every fighting game is going to have bad matchups. Seems like they've done a good job minimizing the 7-3's and worse.

And the whole "REO winning with Jason doesn't mean Jason is viable, it means REO is good" argument is a fucking joke. It's a joke for any character, from Quan to Jason. You say that, and all I hear is "REO's way better than me but I don't want to put the time in to level up, so bufffffzzz plllsss"

Regardless, there are variations that do need help though, jjust based on frames and available tools. Hat Trick, Balanced Kenshi, etc.

 

[ATIWAB]

I don't blame you for feelin this way, but trust in me @Pig Of The Hut .
There are things happening behind the scenes that we simply aren't ready to release out yet because its not where it needs to be.
There are players still working with the tools (also Kenshi happens to be a really really bad MU for us), but believe me when I say he only seems meh on the surface.

So if you could, just hold a grain of doubt for F/T being bottom 5. These kinds of things take time.

I've been labbing Ruthless for the last couple days and the damage output is so stupid for so little effort that I feel like the only reason you don't see more F/T is because people have no idea what he's been able to do since the PnG RC was added. It is 100% undeniably the easiest RC to execute in the game and has the biggest reward, too.

 

[Tweedy]

Well, yeah, but Kung Lao and Predator exist in this game. Who needs to be smart when you have Kung Lao?

Some of the harder to execute combos in the game and no 50/50s. Oh he has a good anti air, so he's brain dead.

 

[Pan1cMode]

All these people saying "jacqui/goro/kano/mileena/jason is not that bad" are right, but are also missing the point. They're not bad, you're correct, but when compared to the rest of the cast, they are on the lower end of the spectrum. Everyone in this game has at least one tournament viable variation.

Jacqui has two tournament viable variations. Both are potential top 10s...

Her last variation, high tech, is also viable, but just not as good as the first two. As of now I can't think of an MU where it would be better (maybe Kotal Khan?) but it's definitely still useable.

 

[CoolChameleon]

I skimmed through this pointless thread until I saw the word "projectiles".



Cybernetic knives? This list is abysmal.

How so?

 

[SM StarGazer]

Jacqui has two tournament viable variations. Both are potential top 10s...

Her last variation, high tech, is also viable, but just not as good as the first two. As of now I can't think of an MU where it would be better (maybe Kotal Khan?) but it's definitely still useable.

I love me some Jacqui. Shotgun main here. Buuut I just cannot see shotgun being Top 10 when she can be lamed out easier then jason. No AA and crap range on her normals. Still viable but not Top 10.

 

[NorCalSamurai]

Jacqui has two tournament viable variations. Both are potential top 10s...

Her last variation, high tech, is also viable, but just not as good as the first two. As of now I can't think of an MU where it would be better (maybe Kotal Khan?) but it's definitely still useable.

Fair enough, I put her in my bottom 5 because I can't really think of many characters whose overall package is worse, but that doesn't mean she's bad by any means, and I agree that her place in the list will rise as people explore her new tools, and the revamped Shotgun.

Also she's in my bottom 5 because I know more about her holes and flaws then most of the potential bottom characters, and I try to avoid speaking on characters I have no real knowledge of. But, with the new patch, I (and the rest of TYM) have a lot to learn.

 

[Pan1cMode]

I love me some Jacqui. Shotgun main here. Buuut I just cannot see shotgun being Top 10 when she can be lamed out easier then jason. No AA and crap range on her normals. Still viable but not Top 10.

Shotgun actually does have good anti-airs...

s1, d2, 4u4.

As for range it doesn't matter so much because of her block pressure.

EDIT:
she also has a 13 frame full combo mid? She has range in this variation.

 

[Espio]

I've only read the first page so far, but why is everyone saying Goro is bad?

Hasn't he been consistently getring buffs?

What's wrong with him now?

@Espio

My opinion doesn't matter honestly. I've given up on most of these discussions. I also don't feel like dealing with people who pretend like because you're not whiny, bitter or salty that you're delusional and an upplayer when in reality, I'm always honest about my characters.

Goro is in a good place and the patch addressed essentially every single gripe everyone had about the character from his anti-air, to his meter reliance etc. Aside from buffing him into Bane tier, I dunno what else truly needs to be addressed or people want from or for him.

Every character should have weaknesses contrary to what some seem to think. There has to be a bottom five, regardless of how balanced or imbalanced the roster is. Being bottom five doesn't mean a character is even bad or unviable either. If he is bottom five, that's fine, whatever. I do think he's at the better end of bottom five if he is there though, better than Kenshi, Mileena and Jason, but I cannot speak on Ferra/Torr because I know so little.

 

[SM StarGazer]

Shotgun actually does have good anti-airs...

s1, d2, 4u4.

As for range it doesn't matter so much because of her block pressure.

EDIT:
she also has a 13 frame full combo mid? She has range in this variation.

Who in the hell can input 4u4 on reaction. *Insert Doge* d2 can only get you so far. Also...you didnt answer my "She gets lamed out easier then Jason comment."

 

[TheSkesh]

I think people really put to much into bottom 5. There are some characters i consider bottom 5 but I think are lot stronger then most people are wanting to admit, especially those who main them.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Who in the hell can input 4u4 on reaction. *Insert Doge* d2 can only get you so far. Also...you didnt answer my "She gets lamed out easier then Jason comment."

Because she doesn't get lamed out at all. I thought that point wasn't even worth addressing. She has exceptional damage, decent footsies, great 50/50s, good block pressure, good anti-airs; the only thing she lacks is decent armour/wakeups.

d2 gives you a full combo into standing reset, s1 gives you a full combo into standing reset. 4u4, while a shitty input, is still an amazing normal which other Jacqui's have been using to great success. I think you need to reevaluate Shotgun post patch.

 

[badb]

Who in the hell can input 4u4 on reaction. *

Anyone, for fight sticks it is an easy double tap spread two fingers about 2-3 inches apart and flick downwards on the bottom edge - practice. For pad it should be easy with a peace sign and flick it horizontally across the side of the controller - pad players were plinking in SF4, is just harder . Other than that this seems to be the best balanced NRS game by a good margin is fun to watch player diversity at tournaments, even many being listed here as the bottom 5.

 

[Kingshootahz]

1) High Tech Jacqui
2) High Tech Jacqui
3) High Tech Jacqui
4) High Tech Jacqui
5) High Tech Jacqui

Lol I fuccing approve.

 

[scarsunseen]

Anyone, for fight sticks it is an easy double tap spread two fingers about 2-3 inches apart and flick downwards on the bottom edge - practice. For pad it should be easy with a peace sign and flick it horizontally across the side of the controller - pad players were plinking in SF4, is just harder . Other than that this seems to be the best balanced NRS game by a good margin is fun to watch player diversity at tournaments, even many being listed here as the bottom 5.

Not to be rude, but you must not play Jacqui much. 4u4 is the dumbest fucking input, especially since NRS reduced the frames for that move.

 

[M2Dave]

How so?

Cybernetic knives only deal 5% of damage and lead to absolutely nothing. Projectiles are worthless in this game unless they lead to some kind of offense and/or damage.

In comparison to knives, Quan Chi's rune cannot be reacted to and reflected and results in an untechable knock down. Rune can also be used as an anti-aerial attack. EX rune is +14 on block and juggles. If EX rune hits and you spend another bar, you can start the vortex anywhere on the screen. Yet you did not even list this move in your top 5 projectiles list. You also did not list Jacqui's machine gun, Shinnok's dark beam, and any of Erron Black's buffed projectiles in Gunslinger.

Cybernetic Kano's knives are massively overrated. As are Kitana's fans in Mournful.

 

[CoolChameleon]

Cybernetic knives only deal 5% of damage and lead to absolutely nothing. Projectiles are worthless in this game unless they lead to some kind of offense and/or damage.

In comparison to knives, Quan Chi's rune cannot be reacted to and reflected and results in an untechable knock down. Rune can also be used as an anti-aerial attack. EX rune is +14 on block and juggles. If EX rune hits and you spend another bar, you can start the vortex anywhere on the screen. Yet you did not even list this move in your top 5 projectiles list. You also did not list Jacqui's machine gun, Shinnok's dark beam, and any of Erron Black's buffed projectiles in Gunslinger.

Cybernetic Kano's knives are massively overrated. As are Kitana's fans in Mournful.

Quan Chis runes aren't projectiles, a projectile is something you throw, lob, or roll on the ground.