Which variation is the most 'useless'?

[STRYKIE]

Kitana's assassin winning MU? Still trying to figure it out.

A variation not being the best variation of a character for any matchup =/= no winning matchups.

Lol shit I didn't know that - thought the super armor was a universal move.

Technically it is, it's just that the healing buff replaces it in Unstoppable specifically.

 

[exflyingbooty]

Kitana's assassin winning MU? Still trying to figure it out.

it does shockingly well against kobu

 

[nathancorsini]

A variation not being the best variation of a character for any matchup =/= no winning matchups.


Technically it is, it's just that the healing buff replaces it in Unstoppable specifically.

I didn't say it doesn't have any winning MU, i said... Well, read it again.

it does shockingly well against kobu

Thank you!

 

[ismael4790]

To be clear, im talking about relentless and unstoppable Jason. The way johnnys normals are built completely outclass and snuff out anything Jason tries to do. And btw why can't he win using a lot of d4s? What's stopping him from using it a lot? He can also outzone jason pretty easy. There's not really anywhere on screen where jason has the advantage. Fisticuffs sucks big time but Jason sucks worse.

I also had in mind those variations, I was thinking about Jason's b122 when I mentioned advancing strings.

He can use a lot of d4s of course, the thing is it does not really pay off as in the other variations. You hit him with a d4 in fisti, ok. Then what? Cage safe options after this are retreat or follow up with a f3 which leads to nothing. Jason has nothing to fear about Fisti Cage d4 in terms of damage.

Furthermore, fisticuffs only source of real damage is f2, that's the only point here in using d4, forcing the enemy to crouch. The low option is there, in the 113, but everything that comboes after is very unsafe on block (besides the exforceball which does shitty damage and also there's the gap after 113...).

I'm not saying Fisticuffs is worse than any of Jason's trash variations (to say that we should look at every other matchup in the game with them). But in my view FC Cage does not have advantage vs any of them.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

People are starting to think that Spectral is actually better than MoS.

ok y doe

 

[Braindead]

ok y doe

I think because he can make his mixups safe, and has higher damage than MoS. But he requires higher execution.

 

[Icy Black Deep]

I can only speak to what I know: Mystic Ermac doesn't do anything that Master of Souls Ermac doesn't already do better.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I also had in mind those variations, I was thinking about Jason's b122 when I mentioned advancing strings.

He can use a lot of d4s of course, the thing is it does not really pay off as in the other variations. You hit him with a d4 in fisti, ok. Then what? Cage safe options after this are retreat or follow up with a f3 which leads to nothing. Jason has nothing to fear about Fisti Cage d4 in terms of damage.

Furthermore, fisticuffs only source of real damage is f2, that's the only point here in using d4, forcing the enemy to crouch. The low option is there, in the 113, but everything that comboes after is very unsafe on block (besides the exforceball which does shitty damage and also there's the gap after 113...).

I'm not saying Fisticuffs is worse than any of Jason's trash variations (to say that we should look at every other matchup in the game with them). But in my view FC Cage does not have advantage vs any of them.

I'd say if the fisticuffs player can properly mix up between f2 and d4 then they will get somewhere. And as far as the d4 goes, being like plus 22 or whatever it is is never a mediocre or bad thing. Getting f3 is still good and johnny cage can still destroy him because his normals nullify Jason's.

 

[ismael4790]

I'd say if the fisticuffs player can properly mix up between f2 and d4 then they will get somewhere. And as far as the d4 goes, being like plus 22 or whatever it is is never a mediocre or bad thing. Getting f3 is still good and johnny cage can still destroy him because his normals nullify Jason's.

Never said Cage loses here. Just trying to make you see it is also definitely NOT in his favor.
It was prepatch, not now.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Never said Cage loses here. Just trying to make you see it is also definitely NOT in his favor.

I guess we will have to respectfully agree to disagree

 

[ismael4790]

I guess we will have to respectfully agree to disagree

no prob xD

 

[Renzokuken]

What or who does Ancestral Jin even beat?

 

[RyuKazuya]

So Unbreakable vs Unstoppable is a 5-5?

my head just exploded

 

[Olcadan13]

I can only speak to what I know: Mystic Ermac doesn't do anything that Master of Souls Ermac doesn't already do better.

Mystic has good space control, better than MoS imo. Walk back and do db1 or bf2 when they try to get close, rinse and repeat.
With MoS you can still do db1, but you need a bar to follow up with anything. Soul ball works kinda, but you can jump over it, and then bait the air soul ball

 

[IrishMantis]

Let's find out truly do a theoretical round Robin tourney with all the worst variations

That should lay a nice ranked. List on who's worst to least worst

 

[omooba]

To clarify, I don't mean this in terms of "Which character+variation combination is the least viable in the game?'

Rather, I'm curious as to which variation folks believe adds the least utility to a base character. In layman's terms, of the variations which are scarcely a step up from just picking the 'no variation' version of that character, which provides the least improvement?

Dualist for sure
Should've called it ASS not dualist, dualist is way too cool a name

 

[Eldriken]

Dualist for sure
Should've called it ASS not dualist, dualist is way too cool a name

DualASS.

 

[KeyserSoze]

It's Unstoppable Jason and I don't see how it is even close.

 

[PPJ]

unstoppable, assassin, warrior

 

[BlackJackSnack]

Master of storms is a pretty sorry variation, but surely not worse than unstoppable

 

[Error404]

I've never once in my life played against brood mother , is that any good?

 

[TackyHaddock]

What or who does Ancestral Jin even beat?

I actually think it might be his best variation against grandmaster sub. Greater variety of projectile options to both break clones and hit sub from the air when he throws iceballs

not necessarily saying it beats sub, just that it arguably does better than Jin's other variations.

 

[oaoo94]

Mystic Ermac is so shit. That it makes both Unstoppable and Unbreakable look good.

 

[The Celebrity]

Who does Commando Kano beat? Unstoppable Jason I guess...

 

[HanSolo]

Necromancer seems pretty useless when you can just play boneshaper.