What would make scorpion top tier? Not a suggestion for buffs...

[Big Pampering]

Saw a thread at the smoke forum about what would make him top. Soooo..... What would make this guy top tier? and what are his general weaknesses?

My opinion:

good frame traps would directly put this guy in top tier imo, after the vortex having the ability to chip and build meter would reduce the risk of committing to a low or overhead mixup, by having much more access to breaker. I think Jax was around scoprions level pre patch, that why when they buffed him he became top tier.

weaknesses:
just to name a few
fast recovery projectiles
no answer for some frametraps, like JC

please discuss

 

[xenogorgeous]

- spear cancel, to help mind games
- a second type of projectile; while Scopion could keep his spear, a low level projectile , maybe like Liu Kang fireball, could help Scoprion in the zoning departament

 

[Vjeekes]

- spear cancel, to help mind games
- a second type of projectile; while Scopion could keep his spear, a low level projectile , maybe like Liu Kang fireball, could help Scoprion in the zoning departament

Spear cancel?? Never seen that. Please explain.

 

[xenogorgeous]

Spear cancel?? Never seen that. Please explain.

draw back the spear chain in the middle of the animation

 

[Big Pampering]

draw back the spear chain in the middle of the animation

that would be overpowered, the huge drawback on that move is that it is soo unsafe

Edit: the spear would be too much of a godlike move if it would be safe like that

 

[Vjeekes]

draw back the spear chain in the middle of the animation

How do you perform that?

 

[PimpUigi]

that would be overpowered

Wasn't this a "What would make Scorpion top tier?" thread?
If you're top tier, something pretty much has to be overpowered. Double duh?

 

[SpideR]

the spear cancel dosent exist...is just a move that would be good to have
Pro:
d1 antiair for rivals presure jumps
EX spear. the armor is geat
New vortex: 1,1,spear,jnp, jk,teleport, dash, f4,3,spear...and chose f4 or b2
d4
weak:
few damage in old vortex
b2 is punishable if block
te Ex teleport can be punish with a upercup before scorpion make the first punch in animation

 

[xenogorgeous]

the spear cancel dosent exist...is just a move that would be good to have

Exactly, it's just a big "what if" supposition here, hehe

 

[Big Pampering]

Wasn't this a "What would make Scorpion top tier?" thread?
If you're top tier, something pretty much has to be overpowered. Double duh?

yeahh but that would change his whole game/strategy, which makes it kind of a weird character that doesnt have a main gameplan, I think some frametraps would already make him top tier and also allows him to retain the strategy he has now.

 

[Big Pampering]

Exactly, it's just a big "what if" supposition here, hehe

yeahh just thought of it, if the spear cancel would exist, it would allow the same kind of armor rain has with his EX RH cancels. at the same time by using ex spear cancel up close you can make opponents duck the spear and cancel into B2. he could also use it to go through ice clones or projectiles and such. up close you can cancel a spear to bait a cross in jump punch, which you can counter with a D1 combo.

thats why such a small buff on paper can have so much affect on the actual game.

 

[xenogorgeous]

yeahh just thought of it, if the spear cancel would exist, it would allow the same kind of armor rain has with his EX RH cancels. at the same time by using ex spear cancel up close you can make opponents duck the spear and cancel into B2. he could also use it to go through ice clones or projectiles and such. up close you can cancel a spear to bait a cross in jump punch, which you can counter with a D1 combo.

thats why such a small buff on paper can have so much affect on the actual game.

yep, that's so .... on paper, players could use and abuse it, making an ultra ridiculous overpowered resource, despise, visually, could be funny seeing how players could react to that mix up mess, hehe

 

[PimpUigi]

He already has frame traps utilizing the dollar menu and his many cancels into take down, as well as the blocked EX Teleport.
Abusing those frame traps lets him eventually get out B2's and F4's no problem, or AA 11 dash 11~Teleport 11~Spear into vortex

He's still not top tier...what would make him top tier is a faster teleport, or 30 frames of duration on his spear (that'd be safer than on block), and on top of either one of those, remove the scaling from his B2 so it grants him a 40% damage ground combo instead of 30%

Even then, he might still only be the top of the upper tier.
So past that, I think hellfires duration could be toned down to 30 frames as well (enemy stun would be toned down to 20 frames or whatever to keep it 0 frame advantage on hit)
Then he'd be top tier; ie broken.

Look at the top tier characters; Kabal, Kitana, Cyrax...they all have very obvious OP's that make them top tier.
Jax is top tier because pretty much everything he does is safe, he has beast normals, the corner reset, and he doesn't really have weaknesses apart from D4's going through most (but not all) of his specials.

Scorpion has all he needs right now, and the only glaringly retarded weakness he has is the 90+ frames of duration on the spear, which should obviously be toned down to 45-60 at the most.
You need to do random spears to win IMHO, and if the opponent guesses right it's a pretty big deal, especially since they can full JiP punish it from full screen or your dropped combos. That's pretty lame.

If Kabal drops a combo, does he get auto 40%+ punished? Spoilers: no.

 

[G4S KT]

no answer for some frametraps, like JC

No answer for frame traps? What? He has two armored moves, one of which grants a full combo.

 

[xenogorgeous]

Jax is top tier because pretty much everything he does is safe, he has beast normals, the corner reset, and he doesn't really have weaknesses apart from D4's going through most (but not all) of his specials.

Jax godlike string F+4,1,3 could be useful for Scorpion gameplay, kkkkkk

 

[ELC]

My idea for a Spear Cancel wasn't so much of a true cancel as it was simply having Spear go directly into blocked-recovery frames with a button press. Mind you, an extra 27 frames before block is still unsafe, but it's nowhere as bad as the extra 50 or so after a whiff, especially against Kabal and his Nomad Dash.

Anyhow, my opinion on Scorpion's perks and quirks are as follows:
+: Void and Vortex = Great wake-up negation and ability to maintain pressure after a combo.
+: Solid Anti-Air
+: Just Frame iaTele bug
-: Recovery on whiffed spear
-: Hardly any advantage on blocked normals
-: Poor zoning, turtling, and rushdown

I and others have a few hypothetical buffs I would love to give Scorpion posted in the MK10 Forums, but to make him overpowered, I'd go with a Spear Cancel that lets go of the Spear and attacks with just the Kunai in addition to my hypothetical buffs.

 

[Big Pampering]

No answer for frame traps? What? He has two armored moves, one of which grants a full combo.

It doesnt work on a lot of frametraps(JC) and has huge risks, d3 and such will evade. . ex takedown somehow goes through the opponent from time to time. plus scorpion is very meter dependend, youll think twice before burning that meter, mess up you will lose one bar and eat a full nut punch combo+chip

 

[Big Pampering]

He already has frame traps utilizing the dollar menu and his many cancels into take down, as well as the blocked EX Teleport.
Abusing those frame traps lets him eventually get out B2's and F4's no problem, or AA 11 dash 11~Teleport 11~Spear into vortex

He's still not top tier...what would make him top tier is a faster teleport, or 30 frames of duration on his spear (that'd be safer than on block), and on top of either one of those, remove the scaling from his B2 so it grants him a 40% damage ground combo instead of 30%

Even then, he might still only be the top of the upper tier.
So past that, I think hellfires duration could be toned down to 30 frames as well (enemy stun would be toned down to 20 frames or whatever to keep it 0 frame advantage on hit)
Then he'd be top tier; ie broken.

Look at the top tier characters; Kabal, Kitana, Cyrax...they all have very obvious OP's that make them top tier.
Jax is top tier because pretty much everything he does is safe, he has beast normals, the corner reset, and he doesn't really have weaknesses apart from D4's going through most (but not all) of his specials.

Scorpion has all he needs right now, and the only glaringly retarded weakness he has is the 90+ frames of duration on the spear, which should obviously be toned down to 45-60 at the most.
You need to do random spears to win IMHO, and if the opponent guesses right it's a pretty big deal, especially since they can full JiP punish it from full screen or your dropped combos. That's pretty lame.

If Kabal drops a combo, does he get auto 40%+ punished? Spoilers: no.

yeahh but I meant more like blockstrings and such, if he had a string that did like 7to8 percent chip and build meter by doing that. scorpion is really meter dependend so.

 

[PimpUigi]

Dollar menu cancelled into Takedown or Dollar menu followed by 2,1+2~takedown or teleport, or dollar menu followed by 33~Takedown (or spear if you think it will hit) all usually gets you a bit more than 8%. This setup has its own mixups that will eventually scare the opponent into not uppercutting you.

 

[Big Pampering]

Dollar menu cancelled into Takedown or Dollar menu followed by 2,1+2~takedown or teleport, or dollar menu followed by 33~Takedown (or spear if you think it will hit) all usually gets you a bit more than 8%. This setup has its own mixups that will eventually scare the opponent into not uppercutting you.

Yes, but still its a bit lacking somehow. takedown does leave you in negative frames allwoing the opponent to inflict chip on you, or the opponent can just dash up and grab.

The pressure stops after that, you don't have a lot of choice after those strings

 

[PimpUigi]

[MENTION=7434]PerfectMindGame[/MENTION] I agree it seems he's lacking something like Mileena's U4.

 

[Slips]

Scorpion would need:

Better recovery on whiffed spear
b+2 unpunishable
1 hit mid
d+4 and d3 give advantage on hit

These buffs don't sound ridiculous but would defintely launch him to the top tier hehe. One can fantasize.

 

[HANZO HASA5HI]

Scorpion would need:

d+4 and d3 give advantage on hit

^^
This little bit right here would be huge for Scorpion. That's all I want. Vortex would get buffed as well. Top tier he would be.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

If Kabal drops a combo, does he get auto 40%+ punished? Spoilers: no.

Scorpion's just the equivalent of Russian Roulette; when there isn't a bullet in the chamber he's a blast. When there is...well you're killing yourself.

But yes, something needs to be done on a whiffed spear...it's ridiculous lol

"Alright, let's give F4~spear a go...AW FUCKKKKKKK!"

 

[Helter Skelter]

Would you guys have a cooldown for a Spear? If he recovers any faster, he's going to have two spears on screen at the same time.
There is no way in Hell that is happening.