What if certain characters had useless variations?

[Tony at Home]

The thing about a variation, is by nature it's not useless if it takes care of even a few bad matchups of the character to make them even.

I think the chance of a "worthless" variation existing is near 0 for this reason.

Just need to stop thinking of variations as characters in and of themselves. Where one character is stronger than the other, no variation is stronger then the other- only varying degrees of effectiveness in dealing with the specific matchup at hand.

I mean, if you play Lex, would it really be worthless if you had a variation that is "anti-zod"? If Lex had a variation that replaced his trait shield, with a trait button that when pressed, caused every Zod player in a mile radius to suddenly get explosive diarrhoea....Well, it would 95% of the time be less effective then his normal trait- but for that extra 5%, I wouldn't say it's useless at all.

 

[REDRUM]

*you're

And he's significantly weaker than the other two variations. Orbs don't do anything unless connected,he'll be bodied by armour characters,characters with good mobility/teleport and zoners.if not bodied then at least worse off than the other two

It's actually *You're* you grammar dork.

And how can you say it's "significantly weaker" When you've put in 0 hours of testing, ZERO.

 

[ShArp]

lol as a Raiden player All I know is that I don't give a shit about other variations from Raiden except Displacer. Which is basically MK9 Raiden on cocaine.

 

[Barrogh]

Tbh people act like they know what exactly TG Raiden has besides his ball brake (if that's not universal ofc). I, for one, have no idea.
Will appreciate if someone enlightens me.

 

[DreadKnight1]

It's actually *You're* you grammar dork.

And how can you say it's "significantly weaker" When you've put in 0 hours of testing, ZERO.

Lmao how pathetic, I simply corrected you don't cry about it.

I've actually played MKX before and used all of raiden's variations. I'm the one who confirmed to the community several things being speculated like whether only displacer had a teleport option...apologise.

 

[trufenix]

Lmao how pathetic, I simply corrected you don't cry about it.

I've actually played MKX before and used all of raiden's variations. I'm the one who confirmed to the community several things being speculated like whether only displacer had a teleport option...apologise.

Your limited exposure to a half finished beta does not warrant such certainty about the final game... apologize.

 

[REDRUM]

Lmao how pathetic, I simply corrected you don't cry about it.

I've actually played MKX before and used all of raiden's variations. I'm the one who confirmed to the community several things being speculated like whether only displacer had a teleport option...apologise.

I need no corrections... How long did you play? How old was the build you played on? How dare of think you played a version that is final and that because you say so Raiden has a useless variation. ..

 

[Konqrr]

There are bound to be "bad" characters or variations. Adapt or use a more useful one.

 

[Zephyrus]

*you're

And he's significantly weaker than the other two variations. Orbs don't do anything unless connected,he'll be bodied by armour characters,characters with good mobility/teleport and zoners.if not bodied then at least worse off than the other two

I have to agree with you. That was the first variation that came to my mind.

It looks cool but fails to do anything in a game with tp's and gapclosers.

The one where his attacks do extra damage will be the strongest for combos but we all know it's the displacer one that will be the best. It has more combo potential than the others... by far.

Master of Storms is simply a trap variation that which you can do already with his lightning grab. It works as an anti-air and is comboable.

The only good thing in it is that it allows Raiden to zone slightly better.

 

[DreadKnight1]

Your limited exposure to a half finished beta does not warrant such certainty about the final game... apologize.

How different could it be? Game was finalised in the end of last year a month after I played when they started the MKX project over 2 years ago...and yes limited but it doesn't take a long time to confirm things and see them in action.

 

[trufenix]

How different could it be? Game was finalised in the end of last year a month after I played when they started the MKX project over 2 years ago...and yes limited but it doesn't take a long time to confirm things and see them in action.

Go play Injustice or MK9 with the day 1 patch disabled. Tell me how different the tier list is.

 

[DreadKnight1]

I have to agree with you. That was the first variation that came to my mind.

It looks cool but fails to do anything in a game with tp's and gapclosers.

The one where his attacks do extra damage will be the strongest for combos but we all know it's the displacer one that will be the best. It has more combo potential than the others... by far.

Master of Storms is simply a trap variation that which you can do already with his lightning grab. It works as an anti-air and is comboable.

The only good thing in it is that it allows Raiden to zone slightly better.

Thank you, someone else agrees...and yeah but even if he's made a better zoner it doesn't change the fact that displacer's teleport may be the best anti-zoning tool in the game.

 

[DreadKnight1]

Go play Injustice or MK9 with the day 1 patch disabled. Tell me how different the tier list is.

I'm talking now->release not post release... Until the masses play the game and learn it thoroughly it's almost impossible to balance but I believe I've had a good feel of raiden that will only change after the first patch or two.

 

[trufenix]

I'm talking now->release not post release... Until the masses play the game and learn it thoroughly it's almost impossible to balance but I believe I've had a good feel of raiden that will only change after the first patch or two.

I admire your confidence.

 

[DreadKnight1]

I admire your confidence.

The ball game will never lose the ball no matter how much they tweak the rules. Seriously what could they possibly change so drastically before the first patch(unless he has infinites or otgs which obviously nobody knows about rn)

 

[NoobHunter420]

I think NRS has variations to avoid the terrible match ups.
every variation is a new character.
you can still have bad MUs, but the variation system reduces the chances.

 

[just_2swift]

Can't be any more useless like cyborg trait

 

[Barrogh]

I think NRS has variations to avoid the terrible match ups.
every variation is a new character.
you can still have bad MUs, but the variation system reduces the chances.

It's like saying that Smoke can still have bad matchups, but odds are reduced because you can pick Kenshi.
Thing is, once you pick your kit, you are stuck with it at least until the end of a match, and it won't be any easier for you whether you can switch to another kit after the match or not. You gotta hold it until it ends. That's pretty much exactly what MU means.

It'll just be a bit easier to pick up a kit you are going to counterpick with - provided that your character has variation that is the bes for your gameplan of choice, otherwise you'll probably pick different character altogether. Unless, say, community decides to go with "character lock for entire tournament, no variation lock" Japanese style or something. But that's another story.

The one where his attacks do extra damage will be the strongest for combos but we all know it's the displacer one that will be the best. It has more combo potential than the others... by far.

Again, do we know anything about TG? I was under assumption that he has different up-close game due to different normals, kinda like ninja or cryomancer.

Master of Storms is simply a trap variation that which you can do already with his lightning grab. It works as an anti-air and is comboable.

What's lightning grab and how do you trap people with it?

 

[JHCRANE 14]

You mean like Ermac's Spectral one?

Ok, question? How did you get that image below your avatar?

 

[Swindle]

Ok, question? How did you get that image below your avatar?

Go to one of your posts. Hover your cursor under your Avatar until a little box that says "Mood Chooser" pops up. Click it, and scroll down through the options to pick a Character variation or Faction symbol.
Thank Christ my good deed is out of the way for this weekend. Time to beat my kids!

 

[callMEcrazy]

I think NRS has variations to avoid the terrible match ups.
every variation is a new character.
you can still have bad MUs, but the variation system reduces the chances.

Variations can do nothing whatsoever to reduce terrible match ups. As you said yourself, each variation is essentially a separate character and the more characters/variations you have the harder the whole thing is to balance. Actually if anything variations increase the possibility/number of bad match ups.

What variations can do is allow most characters to stay relevant. You have 3 different ways of playing each character and you can just pick the one(s) that suit you. Also, if 1 or 2 variations of a character are low tier, that character could still get tournament time if the 3rd variation is powerful.

 

[kabelfritz]

Variations can do nothing whatsoever to reduce terrible match ups. As you said yourself, each variation is essentially a separate character and the more characters/variations you have the harder the whole thing is to balance. Actually if anything variations increase the possibility/number of bad match ups.

What variations can do is allow most characters to stay relevant. You have 3 different ways of playing each character and you can just pick the one(s) that suit you. Also, if 1 or 2 variations of a character are low tier, that character could still get tournament time if the 3rd variation is powerful.

and even low tier variations can have their good/even matchups, possibly even surprising ones.

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

I just really want the tourney standard to be that you can't change character but you can change variation after loss. But I'm just hopeful dreamin!

 

[callMEcrazy]

and even low tier variations can have their good/even matchups, possibly even surprising ones.

As much as I hope you are right it's wishful thinking. Think Sektor in MK9. He had even matchups against most of the top tier but he wasn't often seen in tournaments was he ? And he wasn't even low tier, just mid tier. Anyway, to hell with tiers !!

The bottom line is I'm hype for variations regardless of any shortcomings it may have.

 

[kabelfritz]

As much as I hope you are right it's wishful thinking. Think Sektor in MK9. He had even matchups against most of the top tier but he wasn't often seen in tournaments was he ? And he wasn't even low tier, just mid tier. Anyway, to hell with tiers !!

The bottom line is I'm hype for variations regardless of any shortcomings it may have.

confirmed sektor sightings happened more often towards the end of the games lifespan, but i agree he was an underplayed character. on the other hand, we have seen catwoman counterpicks vs MMH in tournament which worked.

for example, maybe commando kano is absolutely useless against every character who has any projectile, but bodies the shit out of ferra/torr, who on the other hand just run over any zoner. or unbreakable sub zero can hold his own vs rushdowners of the meanest Kind (maybe lao/cassie/assassin kitana), while he fails to get past lets say kotal kahns low-tier zoning.