Well... Cyrax got buffed : D

[NariTuba]

NRS shouldn't need to say that because NRS shouldn't be basing their buffing/nerfing on popular opinion; they should be basing them on purely objective analysis of what the character's abilities are and what they need tweaked. Cyrax doesn't need anything AT ALL considering all the tools he has. A character like Scorpion, for example, has to take much more risk than Cyrax but gets less damage than Cyrax. Cyrax gets meterless safe jump opportunities while Scorpion has to either spend meter or land a spear into F2,1 teleport.

I respectfully disagree with all this.

Objectivity in the buff/nerf process MUST include popular opinion as well as their own independent analysis. Popular opinion includes players of all skills, their opinions need to be properly filtered by NRS and factored in the patches. If it wasnt for players most of the many fixes that have been done to this game would have never happened. When it comes to balance fixes the only way for NRS to see the cogs turn is to watch high level offline competitive players go at eachother and factor in how much repping each character has in these.

Game balance is an EXTREMELY complex issue. Comparing two characters in 3 sentences in order to complain about a buff to one and lack of buff to another is simply not valid. Different characters mean different speeds, normals, specials, game plans, wakeup games, AAs, damage, etc... ALL of these need to be factored in for the entire cast and only then you can begin to evaluate the interactions between them. Ramifications are monumental and often unexpected for each tweak. Saying that Cyrax is a better character than scorpion because he is less risky and does more damage is a fallacy of reduction.

 

[Mt. Mutombo]

So heres how these buffs affect his gameplay off the top of my head:

saw on hit confirm on crouch block
1,2~net on hit 1,2~saw on crouch block. 1,1 2,1 1,2 all jail correct? so we might have something valuable here

d4~saw
Seems interesting since the recovery is a little better and combined with the reach of the d4 we might be talking about a non full combo punishment from some of the cast if blocked proper. Some characters are borderline impossible to get a jps against unless its crossup or baited projectile. I always push with d4 and when they started blocking low I would attempt an u4 but it was so painfully slow. According to frame data (http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?4992-Cyrax-Frame-Data):

d4, u4 = 30i (duration of d4 when left to complete) + 14i (startup of u4) = 44i to hit low then overhead

d4~saw = 16i (duration of d4 when cancelled) + 17i (startup of saw) = 33i to hit low then overhead

Less total execution for both hits, less of a gap to interrupt between them. Of course punishments would have to be tested but it sounds fun in theory. What do you guys think?

This was exactly what i was thinking of when i saw the patch.

It's not that big of a change but it's another mindfucking situation the opponent has to worry now.

 

[Mosp]

NRS shouldn't need to say that because NRS shouldn't be basing their buffing/nerfing on popular opinion; they should be basing them on purely objective analysis of what the character's abilities are and what they need tweaked. Cyrax doesn't need anything AT ALL considering all the tools he has. A character like Scorpion, for example, has to take much more risk than Cyrax but gets less damage than Cyrax. Cyrax gets meterless safe jump opportunities while Scorpion has to either spend meter or land a spear into F2,1 teleport.

I'm glad Scorpion gets less damage than Cyrax because if that were the case his vortex would kill you in 2 combos. Also Scorpion is just a risky character, that's just how he's supposed to be played. I would rather them not change that because it makes him different and not just a stale clone of the cast.

 

[Mt. Mutombo]

NRS shouldn't need to say that because NRS shouldn't be basing their buffing/nerfing on popular opinion;

That's not a very smart argument, you know how many bugs/ glitches and OP shit, Epic was able to nitpick out the Gears of War 3 thanks to the beta they launched a couple months ago, where they openly said to the players, if you find anything please post it on youtube or on the GoW forums.

Since they are constantly updating this game, i feel it's the same situation.

And either they're doing this because of offline high level play and the online complainers. I mean if i had one last update to release and i have large group of people complaining about a glitchy mk3 suit, i have to respond.

Buttttt in your defense, i kinda agree, because of stupid complainers lao got nerfed just because people don't know how to crouch block, so i'll give you that.

 

[aj1701]

I respectfully disagree with all this.

Objectivity in the buff/nerf process MUST include popular opinion as well as their own independent analysis. Popular opinion includes players of all skills, their opinions need to be properly filtered by NRS and factored in the patches. If it wasnt for players most of the many fixes that have been done to this game would have never happened. When it comes to balance fixes the only way for NRS to see the cogs turn is to watch high level offline competitive players go at eachother and factor in how much repping each character has in these.

Game balance is an EXTREMELY complex issue. Comparing two characters in 3 sentences in order to complain about a buff to one and lack of buff to another is simply not valid. Different characters mean different speeds, normals, specials, game plans, wakeup games, AAs, damage, etc... ALL of these need to be factored in for the entire cast and only then you can begin to evaluate the interactions between them. Ramifications are monumental and often unexpected for each tweak. Saying that Cyrax is a better character than scorpion because he is less risky and does more damage is a fallacy of reduction.

Someone that gets it. Its not as simple as people make it out to be, and like it or not people getting raped online because something is trivial to abuse online can't be ignored. Yes, the ideal fix would be less lag, but that might not be possible. Complain all you want about the 2.99 million people that will only EVER play this game online, but they're the ones ensuring that there will be an MK10... hopefully with better netcode.