The Zoning Academy (Mortal Kombat 11 Edition)

[trufenix]

Well as a grappler main, I don't care much for what you've said but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

As I always say, if it's a strategy that can be formed within the confines of the game, and isn't cheating, then it's fair game and perfectly legit thing to do.

People hated Sub Zero for the ice clone, yet I would zone all game with it because it was an effective strategy. And to me, the fun of the play style is forcing the opponent to play how you want them to, rather than you playing how they want you to.

Nothing wrong with zoning imo.

 

[Vslayer]

Didn't say that. Just that learning a few easily spammable (spammible?) combos isn't that different than someone spamming projectiles. Spam is spam. Not all combos are braindead, and not all zoning is braindead.

That's true, maybe I just have PTSD from full-auto Jacqui, and maybe it's a personal preference too. I just don't feel like it's something I would feel proud to do or something that I want to watch others do.

 

[methademic]

Man, the scrub is strong in this thread.

 

[Marlow]

Nothing about watching spamming gameplay is fun

I actually find high level zoning pretty fun to watch. To me it's an interesting game of cat and mouse, with the zoner trying to keep the opponent out, and the rush down character fighting to get in. The zoner has to be good at movement to make sure they can space their projectiles correctly, and not get caught in the corner. The rush down character needs to be patient and find a good way in, either by a good read or just slowly backing the zoner into a corner with walk&block, but one well timed punish can lead to huge damage into a tough setup. I find that kind of push/pull conflict fun to watch.

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

Lol at people calling zoning spam and braindead but throw out braindead 50/50's constantly and think they're skilled for hitting a combo which they had to look up on this site or youtube.

Cringe. Git Gud

 

[Vslayer]

I actually find high level zoning pretty fun to watch. To me it's an interesting game of cat and mouse, with the zoner trying to keep the opponent out, and the rush down character fighting to get in. The zoner has to be good at movement to make sure they can space their projectiles correctly, and not get caught in the corner. The rush down character needs to be patient and find a good way in, either by a good read or just slowly backing the zoner into a corner with walk&block, but one well timed punish can lead to huge damage into a tough setup. I find that kind of push/pull conflict fun to watch.

I get how seeing someone controlling space is impressive, it's the same concept if you're zoning or playing rushdown, but I always watch the player trying to get in and I can feel their frustration and sometimes you can time all your ducks and jumps right to get over those projectiles and one wrong move gets you back to square one and that's the worst feeling ever.

Lol at people calling zoning spam and braindead but throw out braindead 50/50's constantly and think they're skilled for hitting a combo which they had to look up on this site or youtube.

Cringe. Git Gud

I lab combos by myself boi, don't you sleep on these magic hands.

 

[Marinjuana]

It's not called the Anti-Zoning Zealotry Academy people

 

[xWildx]

Honestly, this is a competitive fighting game forum. If you’re ignorant enough to complain about how boring zoning or “spamming” is, and questioning its legitimacy, please take your concerns back to GameFAQS until you have mentally graduated enough to return with a better understanding of fighting game play styles and space control.

 

[methademic]

Honestly, this is a competitive fighting game forum. If you’re ignorant enough to complain about how boring zoning or “spamming” is, and questioning its legitimacy, please take your concerns back to GameFAQS until you have mentally graduated enough to return with a better understanding of fighting game play styles and space control.

Big facts

 

[Vslayer]

Can y'all bring that salt over here, please? I need some more on these fries.

Look, we all have our preferences and debating competitive gaming playstyles is allowed, unless free speech gets abolished in the next .02 seconds. Marlow and I had a good convo. Chill.

I like to lay it on thick, Marlow knows that, but if y'all are triggered, that sounds a whole lot like your problem. Don't act like disagreements are bad, because they're not.

 

[lionheart21]

Zoning is about space control, about applying constant pressure, and making reads on trying to keep the opponent out. Someone spamming a projectile is not the same as zoning. Spamming is basically playing without thinking, just throwing out moves irregardless of situation, and it can be done with pretty much any archtype, not just zoning.

Pretty much my exact mindset right here. It's why in my initial response that I said that I don't like spammers because they give legit zoners a bad name and give others the mindset that all zoners are alike, which they are absolutely not.

 

[Cashual]

I’ve also said I had no problem dealing with zoners in MKX. Read carefully

You said that NRS should’ve learned from both MKX and Injustice 2 that zoning is a bad strategy in terms of gameplay mechanic.

So what exactly did you mean?

MKX and Injustice 2 couldn’t be more different in terms of how zoning was in terms of effectiveness. MKX had smaller stages, tons of mobility interactables, running, faster and harder to AA jumps/jump ins, fast and advancing armored attacks, etc.

There was what....5-10 variations (out of nearly 100) in MKX that truly acted as zoners? I think maybe 3-4 of them actually could get away with walking backwards and throwing projectiles as a legitimate strategy. Even with that, so many characters have ways in and the stage sizes allowed rushdown/pressure characters to close the distance pretty fast.

I’m sorry, but you saying that zoning somehow negatively impacted MKX just goes to show you’re not in tune. And further, zoning is perfectly legitimate and even the most respected FG’s feature zoning characters (Guile, Morrigan for example) going back 25 years or something, so where do you get this idea that zoning isn’t in the spirit of fighting games?

 

[SUPAHJD]

And see, this is my favorite. I make a post saying that I think the issue with zoning comes from the fact of how poorly it's been implemented in something like Injustice 2 and how tedious it was in MKX and the immediate high salt defense is

"UH IT'S LEGIT BRO LOL CASUAL SCRUBS MATURE A BIT HAHA"

Yeah, alright. You're really proving to me that as you back up to the other side of the screen, to throw away projectiles to keep the enemy back from legit opening up a combo on your ass that it's a completely cool and skilled method!

I'm not doubting the legitimacy of zoning. I'm doubting the legitimacy of it in NRS recent titles because why wouldn't I? Let me hit this two button input so my character can either shoot out machine gun fire to take away a fair bit of health or let me aim up in the sky so you can't jump it.

My problem is with the thread itself: "AnD now TheY gOT rId Of RuNnING! tAKe ThAT!" So a completely valid method to trash zoning.

Basically, this thread is "Let's all come together to not feel like trash for jumping in the air and hitting Superman's entire screen basis laser eye shot!". Again, I don't think people are doubting the legitamecy of zoning. And at the end of the day, no. It's not fun to watch to an amount of people. That doesn't make it casual. They don't like NRS zoning. Which is literally "Let's back up and continue to spam projectiles over so they can't reach me".

 

[Cashual]

That's true, maybe I just have PTSD from full-auto Jacqui, and maybe it's a personal preference too. I just don't feel like it's something I would feel proud to do or something that I want to watch others do.

Are you really going to sit here and tell me you ran into a ton of FA Jacqui’s that could actually keep you out? I’ve seen like 3 players actually make her zoning look really formidable. FA Jacqui was the ultimate scrub filter. Neutral crouch, walk forward, crouch, walk forward, do nothing when they think you’re going to try and jump in over straight gun shot , let them try the AA rocket or her dash special and blow them up.

I loved running into FA Jacqui, and probably made more of them rage quit than damn near any other character besides Scorpion.

 

[Cashual]

And see, this is my favorite. I make a post saying that I think the issue with zoning comes from the fact of how poorly it's been implemented in something like Injustice 2 and how tedious it was in MKX and the immediate high salt defense is

"UH IT'S LEGIT BRO LOL CASUAL SCRUBS MATURE A BIT HAHA"

Yeah, alright. You're really proving to me that as you back up to the other side of the screen, to throw away projectiles to keep the enemy back from legit opening up a combo on your ass that it's a completely cool and skilled method!

I'm not doubting the legitimacy of zoning. I'm doubting the legitimacy of it in NRS recent titles because why wouldn't I? Let me hit this two button input so my character can either shoot out machine gun fire to take away a fair bit of health or let me aim up in the sky so you can't jump it.

My problem is with the thread itself: "AnD now TheY gOT rId Of RuNnING! tAKe ThAT!" So a completely valid method to trash zoning.

Basically, this thread is "Let's all come together to not feel like trash for jumping in the air and hitting Superman's entire screen basis laser eye shot!". Again, I don't think people are doubting the legitamecy of zoning. And at the end of the day, no. It's not fun to watch to an amount of people. That doesn't make it casual. They don't like NRS zoning. Which is literally "Let's back up and continue to spam projectiles over so they can't reach me".

Dragonofdadashov24 did you really just make a hider my guy?

 

[Vslayer]

Are you really going to sit here and tell me you ran into a ton of FA Jacqui’s that could actually keep you out? I’ve seen like 3 players actually make her zoning look really formidable. FA Jacqui was the ultimate scrub filter. Neutral crouch, walk forward, crouch, walk forward, do nothing when they think you’re going to try and jump in over straight gun shot , let them try the AA rocket or her dash special and blow them up.

I loved running into FA Jacqui, and probably made more of them rage quit than damn near any other character besides Scorpion.

You quotin' me on that? Cause I never said she was formidable or good, you assumed that. I can duck, it's the t-bag button, everyone knows that.

What I was saying is that her pew pew gave me PTSD, it was annoying as shite and low tier a-holes used her cause they wanted an easy win. Crouch-walking forward isn't my jam, it slows down the gameplay to a crawl and to someone who likes playing rushdown characters, it's not fun.

 

[lionheart21]

Are you really going to sit here and tell me you ran into a ton of FA Jacqui’s that could actually keep you out? I’ve seen like 3 players actually make her zoning look really formidable. FA Jacqui was the ultimate scrub filter. Neutral crouch, walk forward, crouch, walk forward, do nothing when they think you’re going to try and jump in over straight gun shot , let them try the AA rocket or her dash special and blow them up.

I loved running into FA Jacqui, and probably made more of them rage quit than damn near any other character besides Scorpion.

Yeah, pretty much every time I faced a Full-Auto Jacqui, my mindset was, "Seriously, man?"

 

[SUPAHJD]

Dragonofdadashov24 did you really just make a hider my guy?

So, here's a thought.

Instead of lazily just trying some weak ass "r u an alt", come at with an actual counter point.

You can literally just say "well i just like nrs weak ass zoning style" and that'd be just fine.

 

[Cashual]

So, here's a thought.

Instead of lazily just trying some weak ass "r u an alt", come at with an actual counter point.

You can literally just say "well i just like nrs weak ass zoning style" and that'd be just fine.

I’ve already elaborated on my feelings about zoning and how it works in the context of NRS games on this site, and even to some degree in this thread, so I don’t feel the need to write you a novel as well.

And you’re CLEARLY an alt, dude. Joined today? Responded as if you’ve already been engaged in the discussion enough so that people have unfairly characterized things you’ve said? Why would I argue with someone who won’t even stand on what they think because they’re afraid they’ll lose imaginary internet clout?

Edit: the briefest summation of my thoughts amount to: MKX zoning was absolutely fine, maybe even kind of irrelevant, and injustice 2’s biggest issue with zoning is meterbuild and resource disparity as a result, which appears to be addressed for MK11.

Zoning is a thing, if it’s not for you, so be it, but don’t pretend that zoning, even very strong zoning, is something that NRS invented or solely implements.

 

[ShepherdOfFire]

Zoning is not my cup of tea but yeah there is a difference between a good and a bad zoner.

The bad zoner, when he is far from the opponent, just throws his projectile. While a good zoner, when he is far from the opponent, he...throws his projectile, but he's a good zoner.

 

[M2Dave]

You can all argue that Jacqui wasn't that bad, sure. It was definitely managable. Or Triborg was "easy" enough. At the end of the day, it's not about the ease. It's the fact that these characters made zoning look so just... stupid, tedious, and not fun to play against or watch.

You are seriously complaining about zoning in Mortal Kombat X?

LOL.

Many people in this community criticize me for exaggerating, being reactionary, trolling, etc., but every two years that I make this thread a group of people genuinely make the argument that zoning is immoral, unfair, and easy on a website dedicated to competitive gaming. Someone deport these fools back to GameFAQs.

By the way, I partially blame all the scrubs who voted for simplified amplified special moves in the other thread. There is a correlation between pushing for simplified inputs and being an anti-zoning zealot.

 

[SUPAHJD]

I’ve already elaborated on my feelings about zoning and how it works in the context of NRS games on this site, and even to some degree in this thread, so I don’t feel the need to write you a novel as well.

And you’re CLEARLY an alt, dude. Joined today? Responded as if you’ve already been engaged in the discussion enough so that people have unfairly characterized things you’ve said? Why would I argue with someone who won’t even stand on what they think because they’re afraid they’ll lose imaginary internet clout?

Barely saw it on this thread but sure, I'll buy it.

"CLEARLY an alt" And see, this is the dumb ass part. I joined today and immediately took part in this conversation. I'm clearly an alt. I was a lurker who saw someone actually encourage the trash ass NRS play of zoning and wanted to chime in because I actually really despise it in modern day NRS games. So I'm here discussing it.

But yes, I'm clearly not standing on what I think.

You are seriously complaining about zoning in Mortal Kombat X?

LOL.

Many people in this community criticize me for exaggerating, being reactionary, trolling, etc., but every two years that I make this thread a group of people genuinely make the argument that zoning is immoral, unfair, and easy on a website dedicated to competitive gaming. Someone deport these fools back to GameFAQs.

By the way, I partially blame all the scrubs who voted for simplified amplified special moves in the other thread. There is a correlation between pushing for simplified inputs and being an anti-zoning zealot.

If you're going to quote me, quote that entire post where I also said it wasn't really a problem. Just tedious and annoying. Really, like how the entire basis of zoning gameplay is.

Wouldn't say it's immoral, or unfair. You don't think it's easy? Lol.

NRS Modern Day Zoning is literally doing one of your special moves or an alternation of it. And then when they get in close, hitting them away. Repeat.

It's entirely easy in their games now. And completely boring. The online scene is full of it. No one is arguing that it's not managable. It entirely is. But since nowadays, whenever I get on Injustice 2 or MKX, it's 80 percent "watch as i stand on the other side of the screen and use my specials!", it gets a tad bit old. To see it encouraged is even more old.

Edit: And yes, I know NRS didn't implement zoning. I know it's always been a thing. I've played Capcom fighters too, lol. MVC2 is one of my childhood favorite cabinets.

But I will argue NRS made it the easiest to pull off to an annoying successful rate.

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

You are seriously complaining about zoning in Mortal Kombat X?

LOL.

Many people in this community criticize me for exaggerating, being reactionary, trolling, etc., but every two years that I make this thread a group of people genuinely make the argument that zoning is immoral, unfair, and easy on a website dedicated to competitive gaming. Someone deport these fools back to GameFAQs.

By the way, I partially blame all the scrubs who voted for simplified amplified special moves in the other thread. There is a correlation between pushing for simplified inputs and being an anti-zoning zealot.

Execute Order 66 ma'lord?

It shall be done.

 

[Cashual]

Barely saw it on this thread but sure, I'll buy it.

"CLEARLY an alt" And see, this is the dumb ass part. I joined today and immediately took part in this conversation. I'm clearly an alt. I was a lurker who saw someone actually encourage the trash ass NRS play of zoning and wanted to chime in because I actually really despise it in modern day NRS games. So I'm here discussing it.

But yes, I'm clearly not standing on what I think.



If you're going to quote me, quote that entire post where I also said it wasn't really a problem. Just tedious and annoying. Really, like how the entire basis of zoning gameplay is.

Wouldn't say it's immoral, or unfair. You don't think it's easy? Lol.

NRS Modern Day Zoning is literally doing one of your special moves or an alternation of it. And then when they get in close, hitting them away. Repeat.

It's entirely easy in their games now. And completely boring. The online scene is full of it. No one is arguing that it's not managable. It entirely is. But since nowadays, whenever I get on Injustice 2 or MKX, it's 80 percent "watch as i stand on the other side of the screen and use my specials!", it gets a tad bit old. To see it encouraged is even more old.

Edit: And yes, I know NRS didn't implement zoning. I know it's always been a thing. I've played Capcom fighters too, lol. MVC2 is one of my childhood favorite cabinets.

But I will argue NRS made it the easiest to pull off to an annoying successful rate.

What characters in MKX are you fighting where you spend 80% of your time on the other side of the screen?
Edit: here’s character usage stats presently in the game. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/253573-mortal-kombat-11/77305186

No one in the top ten is a zoner. Maaaaybe by some definition you could call subzero a zoner....but definitely not a traditional one. Maybe Dragon Fire Liu? Either way though, MKX simply isn’t a game where zoning is all that powerful, so I’m confused by your comments.