Question The Sub pressure... when to stop it?

[charlieonline]

I'm using Shory as my reference here as I made this observation watching the money matchs posted here.

He tends to pressure with 21, d4 d21 and mixes grabs. My question is when is it not safe to continue the pressure? For example, I attempt to mimic this pressure style but the truth is I really don't know what is going on, when I'm at adv or unsafe.

So my pressure ends up looking like this, somewhat of a melee spam d4 21 d4 212.

I don't know when to stop my pressure to avoid a counter poke or keep em locked down, most people jump after my second d4.

 

[OnizukaPM]

21 is 0 on block totally safe
d4 i believe is 0 on block and +13 on hit

2 is very fast - 8-9frames, after 21 u can make another 21, becouse opponent might be aftraid of 214/212, i like to end my pressure with clone when im close to the corner, also 22 is anti jumpins, so dont be afraid of crossups if i read correctly

 

[charlieonline]

I do this but I've noticed a lot of times smart people jump after 21 I think what I have to do is commit a few 212's no clone so they know that if they try to jump the 21 they can be nailed by the ending 2 into ice blast combo or something.

Okay so I see how doing d4 (hit) goes into 21 because you get a huge +13 adv but what follows a blocked d4?

 

[OnizukaPM]

If u know that they will jump away, u can go for slide, also try to pressure in a way that they dont know if u are going for 21/212/212slide/21clone/21slide/212/ etc.

Also after blocked d4 many people likes to jump on u, so 22 isnt bad idea, u can fool them with 22slide/222/22/224/224slide/224clone etc. dont get predictable at all

 

[GUTZnGORE]

I do this but I've noticed a lot of times smart people jump after 21 I think what I have to do is commit a few 212's no clone so they know that if they try to jump the 21 they can be nailed by the ending 2 into ice blast combo or something.

Okay so I see how doing d4 (hit) goes into 21 because you get a huge +13 adv but what follows a blocked d4?

If they block the d4 you could cancel it into ice clone or if your opp has slow startups you could even go for a 22 in hopes that they think they are at an advantage and try to punish.

 

[Khaos Effekt]

If they block the d4 you could cancel it into ice clone or if your opp has slow startups you could even go for a 22 in hopes that they think they are at an advantage and try to punish.

mainly for me b121 dont use so many things can happen so dont try to do tht alot but it depends on the character ur fighting if ur playing against reptile they can dash right through ur moves or kung garb he can spin or ermac he casn tele grab you so but for the most part here are some good set ups ..for example jump in b1 2 1,3 22 freeze tht usefull one ... or 21 low poke 22 freeze but most of the time wit tht ill 22 4 ice clone. and after a freeze ill back up to where b1 2, well only make the 2 prt hit because u can follow up faster, so freeze back up b1 2 1 212 clone is good or instead of 212 clone 214 slide, another lil set up jump 1 4 either 22 freeze after or you could do b12 freeze.. and a if you land a nuetral jump punch u can dash in 1,1 212 enchanced freeze dash in 22 slide. and anyway for closure against like reptile kung lao and ermac you mainly not want to try to keep block pressure tht much cause all 3 of em have very fast escapes so i do more stuff like 21 low poke 224 clone or b12 214 clone or you could do b12 21 low poke 224 clone so yea... thts my advice hope it helps

 

[Khaos Effekt]

mainly for me b121 dont use so many things can happen so dont try to do tht alot but it depends on the character ur fighting if ur playing against reptile they can dash right through ur moves or kung garb he can spin or ermac he casn tele grab you so but for the most part here are some good set ups ..for example jump in b1 2 1,3 22 freeze tht usefull one ... or 21 low poke 22 freeze but most of the time wit tht ill 22 4 ice clone. and after a freeze ill back up to where b1 2, well only make the 2 prt hit because u can follow up faster, so freeze back up b1 2 1 212 clone is good or instead of 212 clone 214 slide, another lil set up jump 1 4 either 22 freeze after or you could do b12 freeze.. and a if you land a nuetral jump punch u can dash in 1,1 212 enchanced freeze dash in 22 slide. and anyway for closure against like reptile kung lao and ermac you mainly not want to try to keep block pressure tht much cause all 3 of em have very fast escapes so i do more stuff like 21 low poke 224 clone or b12 214 clone or you could do b12 21 low poke 224 clone so yea... thts my advice hope it helps

and if you like good wall set ups just let me know gutzngore..

 

[Dark_Rob]

I'm using Shory as my reference here as I made this observation watching the money matchs posted here.

He tends to pressure with 21, d4 d21 and mixes grabs. My question is when is it not safe to continue the pressure? For example, I attempt to mimic this pressure style but the truth is I really don't know what is going on, when I'm at adv or unsafe.

So my pressure ends up looking like this, somewhat of a melee spam d4 21 d4 212.

I don't know when to stop my pressure to avoid a counter poke or keep em locked down, most people jump after my second d4.

It all comes down to experience and Shoryuken has alot of it. Subs best pressure strings are D4 2,1 and 2,2 mixed in with some throws. However there is no set pattern for using these. Instead its a matter of mixing up what your doing and reading your opponents reactions. Memory of his past reactions is important as well. For instance you make mention that your opponent tends to jump away after you D4 them. First remember they can only do this if they block the D4, if D4 hits you have enough advantage to dash in and continue pressuring.
Someone like Shoryuken will remember this and after D4 he might do a fast jump and air to air punch,2,2,slide or he might just 2,2, ice blast to knock them out of the air and get a combo. The whole point of pressuring your opponent isn't to just keep doing it. Your looking to open them up. Your D4ing them to get them to react to it. You want them to jump. The key is reading when they will try to get out, and only experience will make you better at that. Just copying the moves Shoryuken is doing will not help you understand why he's doing them or the meta game involved. You have to look deeper to understand the setups. It takes alot of practice and alot of experience. Shoryuken has cut his teeth against alot of the
west coasts best players so he has alot of experience at making the right reads. This didn't come overnight to him
and it wont for you either. But with practice you will get better at it The biggest difference between a high level player and a mid level
player is that the high level player guesses right more often than not than a mid level player does.

 

[Nick T.]

It's not just a matter of remembering how they react to situations...it's EVERYTHING. You need to remember EVERYTHING. How they walk/dash/jump. When they jump/dash, etc.

ALL THAT SHIT!!!!

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

It's not just a matter of remembering how they react to situations...it's EVERYTHING. You need to remember EVERYTHING. How they walk/dash/jump. When they jump/dash, etc.

ALL THAT SHIT!!!!

That's what I really like about him: you HAVE to be able to read like a book to win with him.
I didn't realize 'til NEC just how totally out of whack my playstyle was (amazing how much you can learn when you don't have a Net at your disposal), but since I picked him back up, I feel like I'm getting better & smarter with every fight, win or lose. Shit, I thought the AI in this game was simple...turns out it just really sucks at fighting Cyrax.
He makes it a different fight against just about everybody: people you have to pressure to death to keep them from gaining the advantage(Sindel, Jade, Stryker, Sektor...), people you have to zone and Clone out to keep them from getting in the door (Jax, Cage, Liu Kang, Skarlet...), and everyone in between who'll pretty much be toe-for-toe til the timer runs out (Kung Lao, Kabal, Mileena, another Sub-Zero...), but the pressure he can put on someone with the right combination of life lead and meter is DAAAAAAAAAAMN-worthy for certain. Whole different ballgame.

 

[Metalic]

In the simplest answer possible, you stop when they make you stop. As with almost anything in any in FG, it's about reads. You do your pressure, and learn how they try to avoid it. You do 21, 21, then they always jump after the second 21? Do 21,21,22/AA JIP/K. You do a 21, D4, and they start to always block low after the 21? Go for a grab, extend your 21 pressure, etc. Don't get in to a pattern or get predictable, make them scared to try anything. Dark Rob pretty much said everything, Sub's pressure is different from player to player, because it's almost entirely based on their mentality. The more people you play, the more you should start being able to make better guesses.

 

[OnizukaPM]

One more thing, u should stop your pressure when they are dead

 

[Bidu]

I'm using Shory as my reference here as I made this observation watching the money matchs posted here.

He tends to pressure with 21, d4 d21 and mixes grabs. My question is when is it not safe to continue the pressure? For example, I attempt to mimic this pressure style but the truth is I really don't know what is going on, when I'm at adv or unsafe.

So my pressure ends up looking like this, somewhat of a melee spam d4 21 d4 212.

I don't know when to stop my pressure to avoid a counter poke or keep em locked down, most people jump after my second d4.

About knowing when you are at advantage and when you're unsafe, all I can say that you learn this in time. Experience is the key. Just practice play a lot against your friends, play online if your connection allows you (MK9 net code is garbage really).

From own experience, what I can tell you is that pressuring with 21 is one of the best tools that Sub-Zero can use in a match. Some characters have tools to simply stop this pressure (like Kung Lao's Spin) while others can't do much about it other than poking or jumping back and even so the margin space they have to punish is pretty small. That's where your mind set and experience is important. I mean if you see that your opponent is always poking you off 21 pressure, well you can always mix with 214~Slide (on hit) or Ice Clone (on block), instead of constantly going for 21, 21, 21......

If you see your opponent crouch blocking 21 pressure too much you can mix with F4 followed by Ice Blast or Slide or Ice Clone. You can also use b121 (the 2 is overhead).

Which leads me to b121 that is one of the best tools that Sub-Zero has to start close pressure. Once you get the timing, after b121 you are at a very pretty safe zone, mate. Some mixes I've been using:

d4, 21, throw;
21, d4, 214 (Slide if hit, Ice Clone if blocked);
throw;
F4 followed by Ice Blast or Ice Clone or Slide;
21, 22 (Ice Blast if hit or 4~Ice Clone if blocked);
Once you opponent learn to respect b121 you can even cross him up for more pressure;


Anyways, the list goes on. Just use your own creativity and mind game.