Match-Up Discussion - Kitana The Royal Family - Match Up Discussion/Character Specific Strats

[xKhaoTik]

so i was in the lab with Kenshi and trying to figure out some punishes with Kitana and found some very interesting things.

BALANCED:
-Spirit Push can be punished a variety of ways, with Ass or TS being the easiest way, and RC (run cancel) 111 being the most damaging yet hardest way. Spirit Charge is safe.
- I havent punished Telekinetic slice yet, so I think its safe. MB too.
- Tele Furry is safe. MB as well. Interesting fact on this move tho. She wins trades with fans, her 6% fans to his 5% fury (since it doesnt get a chance to finish). She can also throw a fan, and follow it up with Royal Storm's EX lift. She wins the trade since the tele furry doesnt get a chance to finish and she can run up and combo. This also works with the EX Furry as well. Tele Furry can be ducked and punished anywhere on the screen. From upclose to halfscreen, she can duck and punish with whatever she wants (has to run from halfscreen). Outside of halfscreen, she can duck and punish with ex lift, ex iaAss, either version of assassin strike, ex shadow kick, either version of glaive or any version of fan toss. You can also just simply run and grab
- Rising Karma can be punished with 11 string. EX Karma has to be punished by RC 11 string

POSSESSED:
-Both versions of sickle lift are safe.
-Both versions of Demon Assault can be punished by w.e you want. She also can do the same thing with the Tele Furry situation
-Soul Push can only be punished by d1 lol. EX is safe
His tele can be NJP'd or ex rising cutter. He is also punishable once he lands (if he doesnt land with a jump normal)
-Both versions of demonic slice is safe

KENJUTSU;
-Both Version of rising sword is punishable by 11 string
-Both versions of spinning blade can be punished by 11 string
-Both versions of Tele Slam are death on block
-Both versions of Push are safe
-Both versions of Toss can be punished by 11 or 21, but the pushback makes it impossible in some cases, so you best bet is ass, TS or shadow kick

LOOOONNNGG overdue lol, but its finally edited

 

[LEGEND]

LOOOONNNGG overdue lol, but its finally edited

Just to add ( I don't think anything has changed, could be wrong) you should be able to punish Ex Rising Karma with F112

 

[RM Ree]

Not a lot in the OP about SZ. Or about anyone really. Just as a gimme, Kitana in particular is vulnerable to his armor shred tech from Grandmaster.

 

[Shadowjesse626]

How do i handle the predator matchup? Mostly the plasma gun variation. I try to reflect most of the shots but he can also throw out a disk and that isnt reflectable. And online lag doesn't help

 

[Deezxnutz]

Which MUs do ya guys think is a disadvantage for Mournful?

 

[evolution07]

I've had great success in many MUs with Kitana, both Royal and Assassin. I would say my biggest problem right now is fighting against Liu Kang, specifically Flame Fist. Once those fists start rolling and you're blocking, I feel like I'm pretty f*cked the entire match. The only gap I know of is when Liu activates his flame fist before continuing his combo. Since this doesn't always happen, it's hard to know when to try and punish or what to punish with.

Anyone have experience in this area?

PLEASE keep this thread going; it's great!

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

I've had great success in many MUs with Kitana, both Royal and Assassin. I would say my biggest problem right now is fighting against Liu Kang, specifically Flame Fist. Once those fists start rolling and you're blocking, I feel like I'm pretty f*cked the entire match. The only gap I know of is when Liu activates his flame fist before continuing his combo. Since this doesn't always happen, it's hard to know when to try and punish or what to punish with.

Anyone have experience in this area?

PLEASE keep this thread going; it's great!

Reflect all of his bullshit back to him. When he's next to you input ex rising blade every fucking time Liu uses WP (FBF4). Soon he will realize his FBF4 is terrible on Kitana and the only option left is FBF4 into ex dragon roar. Then you can jump it to dodge the ex dragon roar like a boss
A lot of Liu usually mash d3 multiple times in a row since it's +1 on block. If your opponents do this repeatedly, after blocking one d3 immediately press F33 lift. She raises her leg and his d3 whiffs under it, then he will be punish for a full combo. To be safe just press F33 ex fan

 

[evolution07]

any tips for against D'Vorah venomous variation? i've had matches where someone will use the bug spray after a low or overhead starter and repeat that. D'Vorah only seems punishable after the bug spray stops, but even then getting a hit in can be tricky due to mixups, and doing armored reversals or wakeups can only help so much before you run out of meter.

 

[HOT_ DNA]

anybody have any tips against SZ, Predator, and Takeda.. they all body me

 

[evolution07]

Which variations ?

 

[HOT_ DNA]

grandmaster.. the spamming one with predator.. hi suen qu or whatever its called and shirai-ryu

 

[TarkatanDentist]

Can't help you too much with Takeda unfortunately, but as for the other two...

For Grandmaster, I highly recommend going for Mournful instead of Assassin or Royal Storm for this match-up. EX Glaive completely ignores the clone and can net a full combo if it lands; even in a worst-case scenario, there's nothing they can really do to punish you for it at long-distance, and it'll let you get closer to him again. If you're just outside of clone's range and they're trying to hide out behind it, Staff Grab can also work as a good surprise tool. There's also the nice option of being able to EX Shadow Kick through the clone, and you'll only be punished for it if they neutral duck, which is a big risk for them because of the aforementioned EX Glaive. If they try and throw the clone at you, a well-timed jump back will avoid it from anywhere on the screen. It takes some practice, but is actually quite easy once you know the timing for it.

Royal Storm has a much harder time of it, but can manage... if you get the life lead early. Ice clone can be reflected on reaction, and EX Square Wave is the next best thing to EX Shadow Kick in times of just running straight through the clone (though make sure they won't block it!). Instant air fans can work to mitigate the clone as well. If the worst happens and you need to land a hit, jumping over the clone, floating to bait the anti-air and then counterattacking has... some chance of working. It's very gimmicky though, so don't try it more than once.

Don't even try with Assassin; this variation adds absolutely nothing of worth to this matchup.

Hish Qu-Ten (on a side note, I did find it vaguely amusing that you called it 'the spamming one') is far tougher, unfortunately. At first I thought Royal Storm was the way forward, but nowadays I think Mournful is a better bet again. Reflecting his lasers is too impractical and risky, and that ranged lift is less effective against Predator because he has some really well-ranged normals in his arsenal. A good strategy for getting through his zoning is trying to find 'blind spots' where his lasers won't reach, and then stopping at the right point to throw an air glaive at him. This is, of course, far easier said than done. After baiting the appropriate reaction (and hopefully having some meter on your side now!), EX Shadow Kick to get in is the way forward. But above all else, always keep that EX Scimitar of his in the back of your mind, because they tend to have a habit of using it the instant you forget to respect it.

I reckon that Mournful vs Grandmaster may well be a 5-5 matchup, but Predator is certainly no better than 4-6 regardless of variation. Even if you know all his tricks, it's an uphill struggle.

 

[HOT_ DNA]

Can't help you too much with Takeda unfortunately, but as for the other two...

For Grandmaster, I highly recommend going for Mournful instead of Assassin or Royal Storm for this match-up. EX Glaive completely ignores the clone and can net a full combo if it lands; even in a worst-case scenario, there's nothing they can really do to punish you for it at long-distance, and it'll let you get closer to him again. If you're just outside of clone's range and they're trying to hide out behind it, Staff Grab can also work as a good surprise tool. There's also the nice option of being able to EX Shadow Kick through the clone, and you'll only be punished for it if they neutral duck, which is a big risk for them because of the aforementioned EX Glaive. If they try and throw the clone at you, a well-timed jump back will avoid it from anywhere on the screen. It takes some practice, but is actually quite easy once you know the timing for it.

Royal Storm has a much harder time of it, but can manage... if you get the life lead early. Ice clone can be reflected on reaction, and EX Square Wave is the next best thing to EX Shadow Kick in times of just running straight through the clone (though make sure they won't block it!). Instant air fans can work to mitigate the clone as well. If the worst happens and you need to land a hit, jumping over the clone, floating to bait the anti-air and then counterattacking has... some chance of working. It's very gimmicky though, so don't try it more than once.

Don't even try with Assassin; this variation adds absolutely nothing of worth to this matchup.

Hish Qu-Ten (on a side note, I did find it vaguely amusing that you called it 'the spamming one') is far tougher, unfortunately. At first I thought Royal Storm was the way forward, but nowadays I think Mournful is a better bet again. Reflecting his lasers is too impractical and risky, and that ranged lift is less effective against Predator because he has some really well-ranged normals in his arsenal. A good strategy for getting through his zoning is trying to find 'blind spots' where his lasers won't reach, and then stopping at the right point to throw an air glaive at him. This is, of course, far easier said than done. After baiting the appropriate reaction (and hopefully having some meter on your side now!), EX Shadow Kick to get in is the way forward. But above all else, always keep that EX Scimitar of his in the back of your mind, because they tend to have a habit of using it the instant you forget to respect it.

I reckon that Mournful vs Grandmaster may well be a 5-5 matchup, but Predator is certainly no better than 4-6 regardless of variation. Even if you know all his tricks, it's an uphill struggle.

I literally just picked up Mournful like 5 days ago and I played it in a player match against a sub and bodied him( even tho my mournful is BEYOND terrible) lol....I really think by the time Winter brawl comes around that I'm going to main mournful

 

[xWildx]

People overrate the fuck out of Kitana's reflect. In most MU's against heavy zoners she simply can't get it out fast enough and ends up getting punished for even trying in the first place.

In these MU's I honestly prefer to use Mournful. The extra hang time you get from throwing an air glaive is great for counter zoning and you have shadow kick to quickly close distance with or without armor.

 

[Inception]

Mileena matchup seem really empty.

 

[evolution07]

any tips against ferra/torr, vicious variation? i feel the zoning on this one is hard as i've lost to it several times. once i try and get close i get mopped by all sorts of different options torr has. i assume its a really bad matchup for kitana and counter-picking would be best?

 

[HOT_ DNA]

any tips against ferra/torr, vicious variation? i feel the zoning on this one is hard as i've lost to it several times. once i try and get close i get mopped by all sorts of different options torr has. i assume its a really bad matchup for kitana and counter-picking would be best?

use mournful and air glaive

 

[evolution07]

use mournful and air glaive

i tried that and it worked for one round lol, but the fact that ferra can eat projectiles hurts anyone who tries to zone

 

[HOT_ DNA]

i tried that and it worked for one round lol, but the fact that ferra can eat projectiles hurts anyone who tries to zone

damn, idk then... I honestly dont struggle too much with F/T... now takeda's, predators, and scorpions on the other hand......

 

[evolution07]

damn, idk then... I honestly dont struggle too much with F/T... now takeda's, predators, and scorpions on the other hand......

predator's zoning is so good, it seems critical to counter pick. don't have a problem with scorpion much, i can do well against takeda usually depending on the player. i find my weakness up close is showing too much respect. it's such a bad habit to break.

 

[HOT_ DNA]

predator's zoning is so good, it seems critical to counter pick. don't have a problem with scorpion much, i can do well against takeda usually depending on the player. i find my weakness up close is showing too much respect. it's such a bad habit to break.

i have the SAME exact problem with giving too much respect

 

[DeeDogg]

Any tips on how to fight sonya and cassie?

 

[M.D.]

The thing on Cage doesn't seem right to me.
Stunt double fireball is not mid, it can be ducked, and is a lot slower than his a-list counterpart so he'll eat fans all day if he tries to shoot it and it will not even trade.

Clones are dangerous yes in SD but they don't reach full screen so zoning from there becomes really troublesome for him since jumpback fan dodges the shadow from half screen to full screen.

A-list seems definitely the best variaton against Kit for me, since his fireballs are fast and can trade with fans at least some of the time, + it prevents her from jumping and shooting air fans which is great.
Also his punishes are better here since Cage mostly gets punishes with standing 1 on Kit (f3 being too slow for most moves)
From a 1 punish after a blocked ex rising fan or butt can net 27% without meter with a-list cancels as opposed to SD which has to have clones out and most of the time 113 up clone will whiff leaving him useless.

I play a friend who mains Royal Storm a lot and I'm definitely having a harder time getting in and keeping pressure with SD than with A-list.

 

[Mr.EditUndo]

Any tips on how to fight sonya and cassie?

Cassie is queen of the bait, keep your zoing strong she NEEDS her stamina to really do and damage in her combos. she cant compete with our fans so lame her to death.

Blade, it depends on what variation, if its ops I personally get really aggressive because I 50/50 is a 50/50 so I dont want to respect that.

but if its demo then that can be rough, try and keep count of her grenades to see when to turtle and when to go HAM.

 

[Rozalin1780]

I'm not sure if this is already known but I figured I'd make a post about it anyway. All credit for this post goes to @OutworldKeith for bringing it to light over on the Scorpion board.

So here's the deal: apparently a select few characters can forward dash right through Mileena's Air Sai after a blocked Telekick. The original post made by OutworldKeith made mention that Kitana was one of the lucky few. After having learned this, I was off to the lab and made a few videos showcasing this tech.

This first video shows blocking the Telekick and Air Sai followup both high and low. Then, I show that the window to punish a blocked Telekick with standing 1 is pretty tight. It can be done, but it sucks losing out on a full punish. After that, we see what happens when you forward dash after blocking the Telekick.

This video shows that forward dash still works even if the Mileena player decides to use EX Air Sai. The only difference here however, is you must hold down to duck the second sai IF and only if you block the Telekick high. You can still full combo punish if you duck. If you block the Telekick low, just dash as normal.

Dashing after a blocked EX Telekick is a bit different. If you dash immediately after blocking, the Air Sai will catch you, as seen here twice. However, if you delay the dash by a few frames, you'll still go under it. The timing is a bit strict, and I found that you get more leniency if you are in back stance opposed to front stance, for whatever reason.

Finally, just a short video showcasing that you have much, much more advantage and options to punish after dashing than if you simply punished a Telekick with 111 or 21.

Hope you guys find this useful.