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The real reason e-sports can’t go mainstream anytime soon(Article)

oZii

Noob
This is also over on SRK: http://shoryuken.com/content/negativity-holding-e-sports-back-4519/

http://www.toptiertactics.com/2011/05/the-real-reason-e-sports-cant-go-mainstream-anytime-soon/ (site seems to be down at the moment)

Here is the article, just in case you guys have trouble loading it:


The real reason e-sports can’t go mainstream anytime soon

If 2010 and 2011 are to be remembered in a future full of professional gamers and wide-audience viewership of "e-sports," they will certainly be recalled as years in which the phenomenon of watching other people play videogames skyrocketed from an obscure nerdy niche to a regular nerdy niche.
starcraft_2

Don't like this screenshot? What do you know? You've never even had a digital design exhibit.

Sure, South Korea has lived and breathed this way of life for over a decade with Starcraft, but with the release of Starcraft 2, spectator fever has taken over PC gaming in a big way. Tournaments are regularly bankrolling the most well known players, and streaming commentary is so popular that now professional commentators are becoming commonplace.

And it's spreading outside of Starcraft's universe: with over 35,000 players tuning in to Justin.tv and similar sites to watch Super Street Fighter 4, Marvel vs Capcom 3 and Mortal Kombat tournaments take place, it appears fighting games are gaining crowd momentum, too. With all this excitement, money, and public interest pouring in, it seems like society is on the precipice of mainstream acceptance of e-sports as an acceptable voyeuristic past-time, much like regular sports.

But there's one tiny problem.

Wait, why should I explain it to you? You're not even a fucking blogger.

What the hell does that have to do with anything? Exactly. It doesn't. But if you've spent any time trying to learn a competitive game, you've probably encountered comments like this all the time.

"Man, Ryu is really hard to beat."

"What the fuck are you, 4800 BP rank C garbage? Step up your game before you complain"

or

"Geez, wouldn't it be cool if Queens were massive units to counter Forcefields?"

"Wouldn't it be cool if you shut the fuck up, Bronze League moron?"

No, I'm not rank C or in Bronze league, nor do I spend a lot of time complaining about balance or posting balance suggestions in forums. But spend a few days on GameFAQs, TeamLiquid, Steam Powered User Forums, or anywhere with a budding competitive gaming community, and you'll quickly learn that players who aren't in the top 2% of the skill curve aren't welcome at the discussion table.

Look, I get it. I know that someone who doesn't make SCVs past the 5 minute mark is terrible. I understand that a player who doesn't even know MK9 has a block button probably isn't too well educated about meter management. I understand why these players' opinions aren't strategically sound. But for fuck's sake, maybe we could all be a little nicer about it?

When low-tier players jump into forums or onto streams and talk about the game, sure they're misinformed. But if proponents of e-sports and competitive gaming want their hobby to become slightly more publicly acceptable than pissing in grandma's garden in broad daylight, they're going to have to play nice with the newbies. Think about the rest of the world for a minute. Ever go to a sports bar on Super Bowl Sunday, or sit around talking football with your cousins at a barbeque? Ten dollars says conversations like this don't pop up very fucking often:

"Did you see that pass? Manning is amazing! I can't believe that play isn't more popular at the 40."

"Dude, shut the fuck up. Have you ever played football competitively? Even in the minor leagues? I bet you didn't even play on the high school team."

"What does that have to do with anyth-"

"Yeah I didn't think so, you fuckin scrub."

There are a few reasons nobody talks like this. First of all, unlike e-sports, it's not very easy to become a professional or even serious hobbyist football player without ridiculous luck. But more importantly, these conversations don't happen because they are bat shit insane and would make you look like an asshole.

Yet drop by Team Liquid and post your thoughts on a recent Starcraft 2 match, and do a shot every time someone asks you how big your dick is what league you're in. Or do a shot whenever your opinion is treated with contempt before it's treated with an earnest willingness to educate. I guarantee you'll be dead of alcohol poisoning before a 7 Roach Rush could be knocking at your door.

Simply put, e-sports will never become mainstream unless the competitive gaming community can get over itself and open a dialog with lower level players, hobbyists, and unskilled spectators. The average baseball fan can't throw a curveball. The average NASCAR fan would shit himself if he drove over 140 mph. Hell, half the world's soccer fans can't afford three meals a day, nevermind spare the energy to insult one another over what constitutes perfect goalkeeping. Yet despite the fanbases of these sports being almost universally non-competitive (or even non participating) audience members, sports are incredibly popular, if you haven't realized. Maybe part of that is that they've been around longer, but I'd bet part of it is that the average viewer is allowed to share his or her opinion without getting publicly humiliated by everyone in hearing distance.

So before you flame, rage, or insult the next poster who asks why kill streaks aren't in Battlefield, take a deep breath and think about the impact on the future of competitive gaming.
 

lobo

woof.
i love how "how big your dick is" somehow got randomly pasted in the middle of a sentence. i wonder what the author was doing on AIM or MSN when he wrote this...

lololololol

anyway the bottom line is that, while he makes good points, we all already knew this. the problem is that nerds and social inepts and all sorts of people can use gaming as a way of dominating others, and so they will do so. it is basic human nature. in real sports, and in life in general, there is an x-factor called "punch you in the fucking face", that is employed when people are blatantly disrespectful assholes. the internet shields people from that x-factor, though. some things you can never change. just troll the assholes online, then beat them offline, then be content.
 

oZii

Noob
i love how "how big your dick is" somehow got randomly pasted in the middle of a sentence. i wonder what the author was doing on AIM or MSN when he wrote this...

lololololol

anyway the bottom line is that, while he makes good points, we all already knew this. the problem is that nerds and social inepts and all sorts of people can use gaming as a way of dominating others, and so they will do so. it is basic human nature. in real sports, and in life in general, there is an x-factor called "punch you in the fucking face", that is employed when people are blatantly disrespectful assholes. the internet shields people from that x-factor, though. some things you can never change. just troll the assholes online, then beat them offline, then be content.

You know what lobo I gotta say its frank and to the point but I agree with most of what you said there. Who is and who isn't a nerd is subjective. Social inepts don't necessarily have to be the ones playing or watching for that matter. Alot of people that watch starcraft don't even play the game or own it at all. I watch alot of streams and go to certain forums this one and team liquid the most. I have account on SRK but I don't post there just lurk. I don't watch tv though and that is becoming more common place as people can find there media of choice on the internet. I can watch a show on hulu on my comp and hit up TYM or TL at the same time. I don't consider myself social inept at all. Considering my actual profession and where I have traveled and been. Games are my interest but I still get out alot.

I think for community though there should be more of a help point the person in the right place where they can find the information and some tough love also. It doesnt have to consist of nothing but scrub or noob chatter. Streams are well streams. At a ballgame there are thousands of people in the stadium im sure there are people saying all kinds of hateful things its just not recorded and the majority of them aren't saying it.

Usually in a popular stream say Sp00ky has 10,000 viewers for a tournament he is casting. There aren't 10,000 people typing l2p or basedgod omg or any of the normal stuff that goes on in chat its usually like. 20-30 people and some of those same 20-30 people are in another stream doing the same thing even if that stream is only hosting 200 viewers. So the stream part I don't agree with in the article.

I think its more of the representatives of the community that it will ultimately fall on. How they can be marketed and how they present themselves every community be it sports or e-sports or politics is going to have a few people that don't really have people skills thats a given (see idrA in the SC2 scene), but idrA is the exception not the rule. That is what has to happen in the FG community.
 

oZii

Noob
I don't know, man... Football fans can be pretty rough around the edges.... Have you ever met a raiders fan?

Yea I know what your saying when it comes to real sports fans but most sports fanatic fans will counter you with stats or past accomplishments of their team. Maybe a glaring statistic amongst a slew of bad ones as to why there team will win the game or is improving. You aren't for the most part met with "You didn't play high school football or you never played center before gtfo." That is what I think the main point of the article is, back it up with at least a somewhat coherent explanation of why the question asked is nooby. Alot of times if 1 person asks a "Perceived" dumb question 8 people jump in to get a piece of the noob to put him in his place.
 

lobo

woof.
yep. in reality, no matter how pathetic your existence is, you can get really really good at video games and earn respect through that skill. unfortunately some people do not, nor will they ever know how to not abuse that respect because they've never had it before and never had to learn. that is a minor issue, though, as the real top players in pretty much any gaming community are good, respectable people. sure, there is the occasional nerd with an e-chip on his shoulder, a shitty, disrespectful attitude, and an invincibility complex, but they generally are beaten down by the social aspects of a gaming scene rather than the game itself.

the real problem lies in the anonymity of the internet. this problem is as old as farting in a cave full of clan elders and sneaking out without getting caught. when people feel insecure, weak, oppressed, deprived, abused or even just plain bored...they will seek to make others sad or uncomfortable for their personal amusement. all i'm doing here is stating the obvious. so how do we get out of the obvious and work to solve this very real problem?

we put that "punch you in the fucking face" x-factor back into gaming. in other words, we bring it into our human-to-human social lives. streams are great. youtube is great. forums are great. none of them will ever be able to bring gaming out of this hole that anonymous assholes have dug. the ONLY way to make the scene more friendly is to take the anonymous assholes out of the equation. by playing at live events, meeting the other players, fluffing the pots and entry numbers, bringing your friends...you help competitive gaming to move away from the assholes. stream monsters and forum trolls and idiots in general are always gonna be around, but as of now we depend on avenues that they can frequent without fear of getting punched in the fucking face. i promise you that you will never finish a tournament match and then have some kid who you've never met walk up and explain why you are trash and need to go back to playing halo. the x-factor is very powerful. if our offline events can pass that breaking point where they are getting the public support and attention they deserve in and of themselves, we will be free of this problem. i am not saying to condone violence at all. i am saying that when there is even a fraction of a chance that you might get punched in the fucking face, you tend to behave.

korea's gaming scene would survive just fine if, tomorrow, all the starcraft forums and stream chats were gone forever. they have the public notice. they have the events. they have the fans. we need that stuff. once we get that...everything will change on its own.

TLDR - play offline and go to tournaments or stop bitching. if that offends you or prompts you to stammer out excuses, then you are most likely part of the problem.



edit: the real mystery here, to me, is not "what do we need to do to help gaming" but rather...

"Yet drop by Team Liquid and post your thoughts on a recent Starcraft 2 match, and do a shot every time someone asks you how big your dick is what league you're in. Or do a shot whenever your opinion is treated with contempt before it's treated with an earnest willingness to educate. I guarantee you'll be dead of alcohol poisoning before a 7 Roach Rush could be knocking at your door."

am i the only one baffled by this?
 

oZii

Noob
snip
edit: the real mystery here, to me, is not "what do we need to do to help gaming" but rather...

"Yet drop by Team Liquid and post your thoughts on a recent Starcraft 2 match, and do a shot every time someone asks you how big your dick is what league you're in. Or do a shot whenever your opinion is treated with contempt before it's treated with an earnest willingness to educate. I guarantee you'll be dead of alcohol poisoning before a 7 Roach Rush could be knocking at your door."

am i the only one baffled by this?
Yea I don't agree with that at all. I'm on TL and if someone responds to you like that they get a warning or temp ban pretty quickly. Any personal attacks over on TL gets you a warning or temp banned quickly no matter if your a Pro or Noob. idrA just got a 90 temp an for saying another player was a waste of life. For anyone that doesnt know idrA is the #1 StarCraft 2 player in North America.
 

ETC AdmiralAugustus

Grabble Frazzled
Yea I know what your saying when it comes to real sports fans but most sports fanatic fans will counter you with stats or past accomplishments of their team. Maybe a glaring statistic amongst a slew of bad ones as to why there team will win the game or is improving. You aren't for the most part met with "You didn't play high school football or you never played center before gtfo." That is what I think the main point of the article is, back it up with at least a somewhat coherent explanation of why the question asked is nooby. Alot of times if 1 person asks a "Perceived" dumb question 8 people jump in to get a piece of the noob to put him in his place.
Agreed... Its like the wow forums when I used to play. "Ask questions, but if you want a response sound like a noob." People jump on easy questions if they feel like they can dominate the question with "superior" knowledge.

This whole post... /agreed. Even with the second post.... XD