The overlooked move.

[Robotic]

I would like to encourage a sound discussion in here about Sektor's B1 in comparison to F2B1.

I know alot of you Sektor players swear by B1, and I understand why: It's fast, it's safe on block, it works as an anti air, it causes push back for zoning and it does 11% damage.

I, however DON'T use this move often because I find F2B1 to be a better option for me, and I wanted to see if anyone else believes this to be the case, or has good reasons for using B1 instead. I don't see this move being utilized nearly enough and I definitely think it should be.

So here's my breakdown:

1. B1 has a fast start up, though I'm not sure on the frames / The first hit of F2B1 is faster.

2. B1 is safe on block for 2% chip / F2B1 is safe on block for 4%.

3. B1 works as an anti air / F2B1 also works as an anti air, though not as good. B1 is better here, but just barely. HOWEVER, flame thrower is better than both, so I don't use B1 as an AA.

4. B1 causes excellent push back to 3/4 screen and leaves opponent standing / F2B1 causes push back to full screen and causes knockdown.

5. B1 is one hit for 11% damage / F2B1 is a two hit combo that causes 15% damage. If only the 2nd hits connects, it causes 11% on it's own for full push back and knockdown.

6. B1 has great range / F2B1 also has great range. Through testing, I found B1 to have greater range than F2B1, but it is so miniscule it's almost not worth mentioning. If taking both hits into account, though, F2B1 has MUCH greater range than B1.

7. On D4 connecting, 12b1 is unavoidable and it must be blocked or suffer the hits. B1 is also unavoidable. F2B1 is unavoidable as well, faster as stated above and full push back for breathing room. In my view, the only two options after D4 connecting are 12B1 and F2B1 depending on if you want to apply pressure or zone.

Miscellaneous stuff: F2B1, when connecting on a player in the air, will cause an odd hit stun on the opponent that will render him frozen for the 2nd hit, causing 13% damage. There are very rare instances where the 2nd hit will not connect. This is useful for players that want to escape your rushdown (when you choose to rush down, btw) by jumping away.

Try it yourself if you haven't already and let me know what you think.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

i use back 1 if they're slightly furhter away and i dont want them to trade with me, i use the back 2,1 at closer ranges and suprisingly it works well as an anti wakeup, if you know theyre not going to do a wakeup attack they have to block if they try and do anything it fully connects. they both have simaler properties so its al about player preferance, if you want them full screen use back 1 if you want to continue pressure use back 2,1

 

[MKF30]

His B+1 I use A LOT, and it's a good move to keep people honest....I also finish some of my combos with his 11, B+1 which pushes you back and gives you some space to zone for your next attack...It's really good if you nail someone with it, then immediately buffer his flames to keep your foes away from you. I do this often and it works very well

 

[Robotic]

i use back 1 if they're slightly furhter away and i dont want them to trade with me, i use the back 2,1 at closer ranges and suprisingly it works well as an anti wakeup, if you know theyre not going to do a wakeup attack they have to block if they try and do anything it fully connects. they both have simaler properties so its al about player preferance, if you want them full screen use back 1 if you want to continue pressure use back 2,1

How's it goin Ketchup.

I don't thinkwe're talking about the same move. I think you are talking about b21 while I'm talking about f2b1.

 

[PPJ]

use b+1 for defensive purposes and f+2 for offensive purposes.. at least that's what I do.

 

[Altaire]

I'm almost certain F2 B1 is unsafe on block, actually, and I think that's what deters most people from using it.

 

[Robotic]

I'm almost certain F2 B1 is unsafe on block, actually, and I think that's what deters most people from using it.

If true, I have literally never been punished for it, ever. I'm open to testing this, though.

 

[Crathen]

It's unsafe for sure , maybe someone can test how much it's unsafe , try using sektors 12b1 ( 6 frames ) and then ermacs 1 2 ( 10 frames ) then report back.

 

[TheTrillz]

The f2 is an amazing pressure tool and the b1 at the end is great for jumpers. Whenever I do my f2 pressure into pokes alot of people will attempt a jump and if I can predict the f2 b1 I can hit them out of the air on the start up jump frames.

Now the normal b1 is good, I usually use it against dashers because it can catch people between dashes quicker than the fw rocket.

 

[spongebob]

I think its only punished by fast specials. It looks like it's ridiculously unsafe but the pushback means your safe against most normals I guess.

I wouldn't be that suprisied if it gave them a free safe jump either.

I also prefer b1 because it leaves them standing.After f2b1 knockdown at that range if you follow with a straight missle some invincible full screen wakeup attacks can still catch you. Obviously that could be baited and its probably not a good idea wakeup'ing so far away but I still prefer b1 most of the time.

 

[Altaire]

I think its only punished by fast specials. It looks like it's ridiculously unsafe but the pushback means your safe against most normals I guess.

I wouldn't be that suprisied if it gave them a free safe jump either.

I also prefer b1 because it leaves them standing.After f2b1 knockdown at that range if you follow with a straight missle some invincible full screen wakeup attacks can still catch you. Obviously that could be baited and its probably not a good idea wakeup'ing so far away but I still prefer b1 most of the time.

Most wakeups that are invincible from fullscreen are EX attacks with armor, meaning they'll still have armor whether they're used as a wakeup or not (Cage's EX shadow kick, Raiden's EX superman). Just saying.

I'll test how unsafe F2 B1 is later tonight.

 

[Robotic]

Because of the animation, there is an appearance that Sektor can be punished after the 2nd hit of f2b1. But as I said, I have never been punished for it, so either there is a block stun going on there creating a safe on block situation, or I have the most incredible luck, or only very fast advancing specials can punish that my opponents were unaware of. Good discussion so far.

 

[PPJ]

they should make the second hit of the string a chargeable unblockable like sub/johnny b+2 :>

 

[Robotic]

Also, Spongebob, assuming only fast advancing specials can punish it, than f2b1 can still be the more viable option for most of the rest of the cast. Am I missing something godly about b1 that makes it as good as f2b1 or better?

 

[spongebob]

Yh if somebody could test just how unsafe it is that would be great, so far the only method I have is making the cpu block the attack then changing them to jump and jumping at the same time and they jump quite a bit faster before you can.

 

[Sao87]

I like to use f2, b1 if I plan on getting in. The strength to b1 that I haven't really seen mentioned is its ability to bypass moves like ice parry, there are a few others that I just cant think of off the top of my head.

Edit: I realize that the b1 part of the string pushes them away, I normally just cancel a straight missile or ex homing missile off of the f2. I like its advancing properties, if I want to push them away I will add the b1.

 

[Cyborg 8g]

nice...

 

[JkOC]

I have no problem with what your saying Robotic, and think that your probly right. I use b1 a lot as a situational tool, like others its a big part of my game, its fast and does exactly what I want it to, which is push the opponent back, and does good damage if it hits. I think that might the main reason why the f2 part is underused and overlooked. Because in rough spots b1 can save ur butt. Id be real intersted to hear how unsafe it is. Cause I cant think of when/why I stopped using the f2 part. I think like others have said I viewed the f2 part as offense. This is good stuff, cant wait to see what the tests show.

 

[Robotic]

I have no problem with what your saying Robotic, and think that your probly right. I use b1 a lot as a situational tool, like others its a big part of my game, its fast and does exactly what I want it to, which is push the opponent back, and does good damage if it hits. I think that might the main reason why the f2 part is underused and overlooked. Because in rough spots b1 can save ur butt. Id be real intersted to hear how unsafe it is. Cause I cant think of when/why I stopped using the f2 part. I think like others have said I viewed the f2 part as offense. This is good stuff, cant wait to see what the tests show.

Its probably pschological: Press forward for offense, back for defense...im only half kidding.

 

[bombrider]

I'm pretty sure F2B1 will whiff on the second attack if the opponent is crouching (even if crouch blocking) which makes it punishable. B1 will not whiff against crouching opponents

 

[spongebob]

Something stupid I do is uppercut after a blocked f2. It hits people for some reason trying to punish the f2 which is fairly safe I'd assume. Probably not a good idea.

Anyway I guess f2b1 is also the move to use instead of b1 in combo's with just 1 TU if you want that space. After just a plain TU f2 b1 pushes them pretty far away to continue zoning then conventional enders. I think you can do f4 b1 as well but not sure how much that pushes them away.

 

[Altaire]

I'm pretty sure F2B1 will whiff on the second attack if the opponent is crouching (even if crouch blocking) which makes it punishable. B1 will not whiff against crouching opponents

If this is true, F2 B1 just became completely obsolete.

It doesn't matter if it's 15% damage over 11%, people. B1 is not about the damage; the 11% is just a really nice perk.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

How's it goin Ketchup.

I don't thinkwe're talking about the same move. I think you are talking about b21 while I'm talking about f2b1.

lmao yeah i just read it and i misread it, i use F2,B1 too but i only throw in the B1 if i know it'll catch them off guard its kinda punishable and if you want to lay on pressure it's perhaps best left out. that said BOTH moves are good to do at the start of the round i think, the F2 can be ducked but if its blocked you get a free throw almost with most people.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

Most wakeups that are invincible from fullscreen are EX attacks with armor, meaning they'll still have armor whether they're used as a wakeup or not (Cage's EX shadow kick, Raiden's EX superman). Just saying.

I'll test how unsafe F2 B1 is later tonight.

i tested this a while back, on block i believe the B1 after the F2 IS punishable, even if it's jumped over before it connects which is why i only reccomend using it on grounded opponents.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

F2B1 is punishable, can always land a string into nutpunch at least with cage, that means any1 with a fast special can punish it at least