Question - Grandmaster The official Grandmaster bawling thread.

[stamatis]

Hello guys,let's talk about this char with facts.Everyone is complaining, but the grandmaster mains give me a headache!
What is going on here,?

1.You have an almost half screen overhead that I have seen no one to punish it.
2.You have insane damage potential when the opponent is cornered.
3.You can do with the clone whatever you want,throw it,smash it!
4.You have the best cross up and jump in punch in the game.
5.You kill the opponent's footsies when the clone is active.
6.You have 8-2 match ups
7.Whatever is punishable can be cancelled into clone.

So,tell me so everyone will listen,which part from above does not complete you?

 

[llabslb]

Lemme get this straight. You use Kung Jin and you're complaining about GM even though Jin is a counter pick?

 

[TemperingMoon]

#InB4NerfZubSero

 

[ZeZe]

Let me add some missing points first:
8. Your combos are very gender specific. Most of them will not work on female characters and some mid screen ones will force you to spend meter for male ones.
9. One of Sub's variations is trash regardless buffs.

What you should gather from reading Sub0 forums only:
1.You have an almost half screen overhead that I have seen no one to punish it - you haven't seen it, but I have. This argument is meh and can go on forever. B2 might be hard to punish but it is doable.
2.You have insane damage potential when the opponent is cornered. - Dmg in corner is ok. Midscreen is not that cool. Most characters have ok dmg mid-screen as well as in the corner. This "insane" is stretching it a bit.
3.You can do with the clone whatever you want,throw it,smash it! - or fail to cancel into MB version of it. Yeah, this bug is still there. From what I know only one string is consistent. All the others are risk - clone will come out, or not, or will not come out and cost you meter (and eating combo).
4.You have the best cross up and jump in punch in the game. - this is why every tournament player picks up Sub0! This is arguable. I'd say it's good, but if it's the best? Kotal's punch in beats the Sub's one if you ask me. Other ppls might have different opinions.
5.You kill the opponent's footsies when the clone is active. - This is why so many ppl are crying about Sub0, being blind to what he needs to struggle with.
6.You have 8-2 match ups. - As well as few losing ones against most of the top tiers and some middle tiers. In the perfect world Sub should have only even match ups. And again, you can say this about most of the cast.
7.Whatever is punishable can be cancelled into clone. - except MB clone doesn't come out constantly which was already pointed out. As for normal clone cancels, whereas you can cancel into normal clone from F33 mid-screen it will not work in the corner on female chars and sometimes on male chars, all due to proximity check. So no. It's not that easy and you never know how it will turn out in the corner, where GM Sub's game starts.

I don't want to argue. I put MKX back for a while, but I'm still reading my mains forums to know Sub0 ain't that great as you picture him. Most of your arguments can relate to any character tbh.

Edit: and all of them are steaming from point 5 - GM Sub's main tool. Yeah, it changes game play for many and this is the problem for you guys. It looks like you try to cover this with picking other arguments that: can be related to most of the cast or are not entirely true.

 

[mkl]

1.You have an almost half screen overhead that I have seen no one to punish it.

Come hang with me for a bit and hold that 46% every time you try it. Online doesn't even qualify as a real game, so if you're talking online get the fuck out.

 

[stamatis]

Let me add some missing points first:
8. Your combos are very gender specific. Most of them will not work on female characters and some mid screen ones will force you to spend meter for male ones.
9. One of Sub's variations is trash regardless buffs.

What you should gather from reading Sub0 forums only:
1.You have an almost half screen overhead that I have seen no one to punish it - you haven't seen it, but I have. This argument is meh and can go on forever. B2 might be hard to punish but it is doable.
2.You have insane damage potential when the opponent is cornered. - Dmg in corner is ok. Midscreen is not that cool. Most characters have ok dmg mid-screen as well as in the corner. This "insane" is stretching it a bit.
3.You can do with the clone whatever you want,throw it,smash it! - or fail to cancel into MB version of it. Yeah, this bug is still there. From what I know only one string is consistent. All the others are risk - clone will come out, or not, or will not come out and cost you meter (and eating combo).
4.You have the best cross up and jump in punch in the game. - this is why every tournament player picks up Sub0! This is arguable. I'd say it's good, but if it's the best? Kotal's punch in beats the Sub's one if you ask me. Other ppls might have different opinions.
5.You kill the opponent's footsies when the clone is active. - This is why so many ppl are crying about Sub0, being blind to what he needs to struggle with.
6.You have 8-2 match ups. - As well as few losing ones against most of the top tiers and some middle tiers. In the perfect world Sub should have only even match ups. And again, you can say this about most of the cast.
7.Whatever is punishable can be cancelled into clone. - except MB clone doesn't come out constantly which was already pointed out. As for normal clone cancels, whereas you can cancel into normal clone from F33 mid-screen it will not work in the corner on female chars and sometimes on male chars, all due to proximity check. So no. It's not that easy and you never know how it will turn out in the corner, where GM Sub's game starts.

I don't want to argue. I put MKX back for a while, but I'm still reading my mains forums to know Sub0 ain't that great as you picture him. Most of your arguments can relate to any character tbh.

Edit: and all of them are steaming from point 5 - GM Sub's main tool. Yeah, it changes game play for many and this is the problem for you guys. It looks like you try to cover this with picking other arguments that: can be related to most of the cast or are not entirely true.

The thing is why?why most granmaster mains want buffs,every day every weak there is a thread for buffing him,as about the jump in,you are wrong,I can anti air everyone with kung jin except sub!

 

[DT Tundra]

The thing is why?why most granmaster mains want buffs,every day every weak there is a thread for buffing him,as about the jump in,you are wrong,I can anti air everyone with kung jin except sub!

Cant Jin just anti air with his NJP? And not everyone is asking for buffs. I would like some, they would be nice, but who doesn't want their character to be better? The only thing that you could probably touch on him without upsetting a natural balance is having combos be consistent in the corner regardless of gender and having b33 work on both males and females. Anything else and your looking to get rubber band slapped with a nerf for it.

 

[stamatis]

You can't anti air with ith neutral because the stick whiffs when close,and you cannot anti cross up with neutral,the gender issue is acceptable,any other request is wrong!

 

[zoofs]

delete this thread immediately

 

[ZeZe]

The thing is why?why most granmaster mains want buffs,every day every weak there is a thread for buffing him,as about the jump in,you are wrong,I can anti air everyone with kung jin except sub!

I don't think we want buffs. Only fixes of existing issues. I guess this clone going away on block hurts a lot of us still and that is a secret desire of any GM main to have it back. But other then that, I've noticed only wish to have finally Sub GM fixed - MB klone cancel working constantly, combos not being gender specific, bread and butter combo not requiring meter for male characters mid screen and if we have to have clone go away on block, then at least let MB version one stay on block but have the same start up as normal one and bit faster recovery, to make it not so risky to use. GM does not need many adjustments, most of them are fixes anyway.

Unbreakable Sub on the other hand... yeah, he's still lacking as fk. He needs serious adjustments if any of Sub variations need it.

 

[stamatis]

delete this thread immediately

Are you talking to me?

 

[I GOT HANDS]

If I was stupid enough to think like this, then I guess I'd be stupid enough to make a thread about it

 

[KHTC Rated]

If I was stupid enough to think like this, then I guess I'd be stupid enough to make a thread about it

Wow.

 

[Braindead]

 

[SpiceWeasel]

 

[RM Ree]

I'm going to make an anti- Sub Zero thread one of these days. Clone punishes, unsafe cancels, character specific tactics...

The people who make threads like these won't even take the time to read it, and the players who know enough not to complain will already know the content.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

If I was stupid enough to think like this, then I guess I'd be stupid enough to make a thread about it

 

[Eldriken]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[champdee]

I'm going to make an anti- Sub Zero thread one of these days. Clone punishes, unsafe cancels, character specific tactics...

The people who make threads like these won't even take the time to read it, and the players who know enough not to complain will already know the content.

don't do it man! everyone still thinks he's top 5 hehe na go for it fuck it

 

[stamatis]

I'm going to make an anti- Sub Zero thread one of these days. Clone punishes, unsafe cancels, character specific tactics...

The people who make threads like these won't even take the time to read it, and the players who know enough not to complain will already know the content.

When you say anti-sub zero thread what do you mean?are you gonna lower his corner damage?will you make his jump attacks weaker?what exactly do you mean?

 

[Forbidden_Donut]

 

[Chakk dizzle]

Lol. This blasphemer will be smitten in a hail storm of frozen death once lord brady hears of this.

 

[mattnin]

Hello guys,let's talk about this char with facts.Everyone is complaining, but the grandmaster mains give me a headache!
What is going on here,?

1.You have an almost half screen overhead that I have seen no one to punish it.
2.You have insane damage potential when the opponent is cornered.
3.You can do with the clone whatever you want,throw it,smash it!
4.You have the best cross up and jump in punch in the game.
5.You kill the opponent's footsies when the clone is active.
6.You have 8-2 match ups
7.Whatever is punishable can be cancelled into clone.

So,tell me so everyone will listen,which part from above does not complete you?

Just fatality all sub zeros. Don't let a single one of them live.

 

[Dinosaur]

It's completely unnecessary to insult someones intelligence ( even though it can be fun and its lots of laughs) because they have a differing opinion. People complain about this forum becoming toxic while simultaneously contributing to it.

On that note
I think op has entirely missed the point, as it seems the subzero community is mad with game error/glitches/hitboxes not character viability.

 

[Bomborge]

It's completely unnecessary to insult someones intelligence ( even though it can be fun and its lots of laughs) because they have a differing opinion. People complain about this forum becoming toxic while simultaneously contributing to it.

On that note
I think op has entirely missed the point, as it seems the subzero community is mad with game error/glitches/hitboxes not character viability.

There is a difference between opinion and being misinformed and proceeding to spread that misinformation which is what happening in the OP. Sub-Zero is fine as he is and people need to learn the matchup and quit bitching about him(Unless you're non War God-Kotal since those other 2 are royally fucked). Simple as that.