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The LGBT Thread

Hemlock

Apprentice
Looks like the old LGBT thread started by Mr. Mileena was lost when the site went down.

It was an amazing thread that actually saw a lot of TYM members sharing personal experiences, and even coming out to the community. I know this isn't the same, but I wanted to make sure this thread was here as a "safe place" to talk about anything regarding sexuality/love/etc.

EDIT: Some posts have been recovered!!!!!

Here's Mr. Mileena 's OP:
Mr. Mileena said:
First off, I just want to say that there is no thread that directly talks about this topic (homosexuality), because all of them are closed.

It feels so bad when each thread just gets closed, instead of being cleaned.
I am not out in real life, and I really love to partake in conversations like these in a mature manner.

But I can't because every thread gets closed, and I know the moderators mean well, but it truly does feel awful.
I can't express myself with my friends in real life, because I am not out, and do not plan to come out until I move out of here within the next two years. I only have you guys, the MK community, to whom I may 100% truthfully express who I truly am, without hiding my identity. Yes I joke around, but deep down, it feels really nice to be accepted by majority of you guys.

I just want a thread where we can talk about hardships we've had, the difficulty of coming out/ or staying in the closet living a lie, the many straight players who support us, etc.

I don't want to talk about these issues via PM, because what's the point? I can't express my self publicly here nor in real life.

I know threads get off topic, but there's pretty much a topic open for discussion except for the LGBT community.

I know moderators, some people take it out of line, but fear not, majority of us do not get offended, and yes, their posts should be cleaned and action should be taken against them, but please, don't let the trolls restrict our freedom to openly express ourselves with you guys, the MK community.

And here's one from Under_The_Mayo:
Under_The_Mayo said:
I can't accurately express the bewilderment I feel when people actually object to threads about this. How many off-topic threads do we have by now? Music, life stories, dating advice, drunk stories... We are not mindless robots pushing buttons on a controller. We are people, all experiencing very different lives. Some of our community is gay. Some of those gay players have no place to express themselves sincerely other than this community. How dare we judge them?

I've had a few drinks so I'm going to type as much as I want, because I feel strongly about this, and I think some of our gay members like Mileena and Revolver are some of the most pleasant and friendly people in our scene and we should be grateful for them.

In high school I had a gay friend name Jared. He was also a goth kid, which just made things harder. He was very feminine, wore lots of makeup, single black glove on his hand Michael Jackson style. He suffered a lot of cruelty through those years, and I never understood why. I mean, I guess I did understand. The way your parents raise you, religion, whatever, can make you grow up with some pretty bigoted perspectives. But I suppose I was more taken aback by the lack of outrage from other people. How was this different than racism or sexism?

I ask that question to anyone here. If you have a problem with a gay MK player reaching out for friendship within our community, would you have the same problem if someone posted "I'm an Arabic man in an all white and black neighborhood, and I'm looking for people here with a common interest to accept me for who I am,"? LBSH, where is the difference?

There's no way I can truly empathize with your struggles, but I can try to liken them to my own. As a atheist, I've encountered similar hatred. We too have states with laws restricting our rights. We too have to stare into the face of judgement when we tell some believers about our lack of faith in their particular religion. It's hard growing up with the south when everyone wants you to pray, and not believing the same thing (or anything) creates a big lack of trust. My own mother, when telling her friends that my sister and I were non-believers, had to listen to their reactions of "Oh, I'm so sorry!" as if we had some kind of disease. I could probably say with confidence that just as many people have lost their families due to atheism as they have to homosexuality. I've read so many stories about both, and it's amazing how similarly they play out.

It's strange to note the different tactical paths we must take as two distinct minority groups (that tend to have a lot of cross-membership actually...). Gays have been more and more prominently portrayed positively in media. TV shows, movies.. You guys seem to have scored big in that area, but internally...at home and within circles of friends, it seems like such an uphill battle. On my side of things, it's way easier to come out as a non-believer amongst friends (and sometimes family), but it's really rare to ever be represented positively in a movie or tv show without also being portrayed as nihilistic, or as someone who "just needs to find the light". I'm looking at you Arnold, and you're damned End Of Days movie...

Now, I don't want to draw too big of a comparison. I just wanted to express how I understand you through my own lense. Yes we both have to lobby for rights under the government. Yes we both have to face the scorn of the bigoted. But you have the harder road, and I would never delude myself to believing otherwise. In a lot of places if you confess non-belief, people will judge you, but that will be it. When you come out as gay however, especially at a young age, the results can be catastrophic not just at the home but throughout the entire public. You guys have the harder battle these days. Though, I'm sure we would both have an equal chance of being burned alive just a few hundreds years ago.

So... you're an openly gay MK player. Maybe you see yourself that way because it's really important to you to have a community that loves and accepts you despite the secret you've held so close all this time. But you know what? And this goes for all of you... We don't see you that way. You aren't the gay players. You are players. You are friends. You are good human beings. We see you as nothing else, because that's what matters. Oh, and you're trolls too.

Times are changing. And you are immersed in a scene that is far unlike that of football, and country clubs, and church camps, and whatever. You're in a scene for gamers. Not just gamers, MK players. We are the outcasts. We have been since the first arcade cabinet. It's pretty hard to be a hardcore MK gamer and hold barbaric views towards people that are different. Consider yourselves lucky for that. But, you'll still run across "those" people, even here. People who think that talking about yourself and your struggles means you're trying to "convert" them, whatever that means. You have the right attitude. Ignore them. Hopefully we can foster a more accepting attitude around here. Something less trollish. Because every needs a place to express who they truly are. I like to think that this is one of those rare places.

And remind me to never speak to extortioner or arez god of war ever again.

*PS. We NEED more gays. Have you seen how bad traffic has become?


and thanks to the hard work of DragonPick we have cached pages of the old thread! {I will be making backups in case these cached pages are deleted; some pages are still missing}

 

Hemlock

Apprentice
I'm actually pretty depressed everything was lost in that thread.
Me too. I almost didn't start this thread, because it wouldn't be the same, but I figured we needed someplace to restart. I'm thinking about posting my coming out story here to get things rolling again. There was a lot of honesty and openness in that thread...I think we can have that again.
 

DragonPick

I don't play Runescape
F-F-found it mother fuckers!!!
http://tinyurl.com/8ewlhr2

It's only the first page of course, but it involves Mr. Mileena 's spectacular OP. I'll see if I can dig the other pages up, but that may be difficult.

EDIT: Found the second page
http://tinyurl.com/95lyxe7

As I go on, maybe Hemlock can update the OP and put these guys under a spoiler tag or something

EDIT: Won't let me enter pages after 14 for some reason, so these may be a bit our of order. I'm sorry
Page 15
http://tinyurl.com/8jbpju9

Page 16
http://tinyurl.com/8snuxo8

Page 18
http://tinyurl.com/9jh9hku

Page 19
http://tinyurl.com/8th72dd

Page 20
http://tinyurl.com/8cxy9bg

Page 22
http://tinyurl.com/8rxkldw

Page 24
http://tinyurl.com/9lf4ojt


Page 6
http://tinyurl.com/9fkdq6w
Glad to have found Under_The_Mayo 's speech

Page 7
http://tinyurl.com/997uzlr

Page 8
http://tinyurl.com/9rd2exo

Page 10
http://tinyurl.com/8g7ngzy

page 11
http://tinyurl.com/9dxulgx

Page 13
http://tinyurl.com/9e8yk5x

Page 14
http://tinyurl.com/9ue6d3e
 

peachyO

Apprentice
yay!! that which was lost has now been found!! most of it, anyway. the thread is now like hiccup and toothless from "how to train your dragon"...bruised, but by no means broken!! xoxo thanks so much for reviving it!!
 

DJ L Toro

Champion
man, real talk, when my best friend came out to me (he came out to me before anyone else, even his family, freaking love that dude) it was crazy. i could tell that he had a lot on his mind and that he was trusting me with a lot. im glad to a certain extent that i dont have to deal with that, but sympathetic with those that do.
that being said, i cant stand being annoyed, so whether you're gay or strait or bi or other please for god's sake dont be bitching about it all the time. i once met a dude who would introduce himself as "hi im ************* and im gay" (asterisks do not correspond to letters in his name). i thought this was absurd because i dont think it's important in determining the character of a person. At the same time im not one to think "that you do in bed doesnt affect me, so as long as i dont hear about it..." because that's fucked up. i like to hold hands and kiss my gf wherever, it's dumb that gay women and men shouldnt be able to do the same.
 

TarkatanDentist

Kombatant
that being said, i cant stand being annoyed, so whether you're gay or strait or bi or other please for god's sake dont be bitching about it all the time. i once met a dude who would introduce himself as "hi im ************* and im gay" (asterisks do not correspond to letters in his name). i thought this was absurd because i dont think it's important in determining the character of a person. At the same time im not one to think "that you do in bed doesnt affect me, so as long as i dont hear about it..." because that's fucked up. i like to hold hands and kiss my gf wherever, it's dumb that gay women and men shouldnt be able to do the same.
On the surface, that may seem pretty obnoxious. But it does make sense in a way.

After all, if you don't specifically say that you're not heterosexual, people will assume that you are by default. So presumably he gets that out of the way so they don't incorrectly assume he's heterosexual, thus not leading to potential awkwardness.
 

DJ L Toro

Champion
On the surface, that may seem pretty obnoxious. But it does make sense in a way.

After all, if you don't specifically say that you're not heterosexual, people will assume that you are by default. So presumably he gets that out of the way so they don't incorrectly assume he's heterosexual, thus not leading to potential awkwardness.
eh, where i live that's not necessarily the case. more importantly, i think that's a bad assumption to make because it's more problematic if you assume wrong than if you just dont care. Furthermore, i dont mind awkwardness. i think things are only awkward if you make them so.
 

DJ L Toro

Champion
to be clear, when i say "dont be bitching about it all the time" i mean dont be constantly throwing it in everyone's face. strait people are the worst about it (but gay people tend to catch up quickly once they're out). you cant turn on the radio without hearing about how usher wants to go all night with a girl or really listen to any contemporary rap (i miss the days when rap was about having fun, partying, telling jokes, and occasionally cheesy references to sex) without hearing about it. my issue at that point is with sex itself being such a dominant ideological force.
 

TarkatanDentist

Kombatant
to be clear, when i say "dont be bitching about it all the time" i mean dont be constantly throwing it in everyone's face. strait people are the worst about it (but gay people tend to catch up quickly once they're out). you cant turn on the radio without hearing about how usher wants to go all night with a girl or really listen to any contemporary rap (i miss the days when rap was about having fun, partying, telling jokes, and occasionally cheesy references to sex) without hearing about it. my issue at that point is with sex itself being such a dominant ideological force.
Oh, right. I'd be inclined to agree tbh, but that's a different debate. :p

There's also the whole 'sorting the wheat from the chaff' basis. If someone dislikes homosexual people, it's better (and safer) to find that out straight away so that you can stay away from them rather than the alternative of getting to know them over a long period of time, and then finding out they're homophobic.

So yeah, always introducing themselves as 'gay' is unusual, and certainly not a strategy many would take, but it is somewhat justified.

I think the biggest problem with the LGBT movement is that it's dominated by cis white gay men and lesbians (mostly the former). Gay people of other races/ethnicities, along with bisexual and especially transgender people don't get much focus at all.
 

DJ L Toro

Champion
Oh, right. I'd be inclined to agree tbh, but that's a different debate. :p

There's also the whole 'sorting the wheat from the chaff' basis. If someone dislikes homosexual people, it's better (and safer) to find that out straight away so that you can stay away from them rather than the alternative of getting to know them over a long period of time, and then finding out they're homophobic.

So yeah, always introducing themselves as 'gay' is unusual, and certainly not a strategy many would take, but it is somewhat justified.

I think the biggest problem with the LGBT movement is that it's dominated by cis white gay men and lesbians (mostly the former). Gay people of other races/ethnicities, along with bisexual and especially transgender people don't get much focus at all.
so if someone is homophobic it's better that they know to avoid gays from the beginning, right? NO, i would say it is absolutely important that people know each other as people first. If im a homophobe and i dont know you're gay, but we become good friends i would be more inclined to think well of gay people after finding out (assuming im rational) than if i never experience a genial gay person because they introduce themselves as gay and chase me away.

Yes, that's very problematic. The movement is likely aware that the west is still very racist (though we like to tell ourselves that we're not) and conservative, and that if they start from the most radical point of calling for equality for half black, half asian, half native transsexual/transgender (i've never remembered which was which) pan-multisexuals they'll get nothing because the response will be something like <insert deep south accent> "uuuuhhhh, what? are you some sort of communist?"
 

TarkatanDentist

Kombatant
so if someone is homophobic it's better that they know to avoid gays from the beginning, right? NO, i would say it is absolutely important that people know each other as people first. If im a homophobe and i dont know you're gay, but we become good friends i would be more inclined to think well of gay people after finding out (assuming im rational) than if i never experience a genial gay person because they introduce themselves as gay and chase me away.
My idealistic side wants to agree with that, but I get the feeling that they'd be more likely to either: a) see that particular gay person as an 'exception that proves the rule', b) say "oh, I haven't nothing against gay people - it's only gay sex I hate, honest" OR c) they'll just break it off entirely.

I wouldn't dare have a strategy like that, but it's not as silly as it seems.


Yes, that's very problematic. The movement is likely aware that the west is still very racist (though we like to tell ourselves that we're not) and conservative, and that if they start from the most radical point of calling for equality for half black, half asian, half native transsexual/transgender (i've never remembered which was which) pan-multisexuals they'll get nothing because the response will be something like <insert deep south accent> "uuuuhhhh, what? are you some sort of communist?"
The movement does seem to revolve mostly around those who most closely emulate the heteronormative 'ideal'. Hence why such a big deal has been made about same-sex marriage and adoption (which are extremely important, of course), and not other issues, such as the fact that, despite the repeal of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell', transgender people still can't serve in the military.

In an ideal world, we'd be saying "We're different, but why does that matter?". Instead, it's more like "See, we're not so different after all!"
 

Hemlock

Apprentice
Most people assume that I'm heterosexual and it can get super awkward when they find out otherwise. I will sometimes try to reference "my boyfriend" but honestly, it can get a little nerve wracking. If you are meeting people for the first time or at a new job, for example. It can be weird.

This month I am going to a family wedding where I am bringing my boyfriend. This will be the first time my family is meeting him, and it will also be the first time that a lot of family friends will find out/figure out that I'm gay. My family hasn't done much in terms of telling others that they have a gay family member. I've been out quite a while, so it's overdue, in my opinion. But either way, I'm glad this event is forcing the issue.
 

DJ L Toro

Champion
Most people assume that I'm heterosexual and it can get super awkward when they find out otherwise. I will sometimes try to reference "my boyfriend" but honestly, it can get a little nerve wracking. If you are meeting people for the first time or at a new job, for example. It can be weird.

This month I am going to a family wedding where I am bringing my boyfriend. This will be the first time my family is meeting him, and it will also be the first time that a lot of family friends will find out/figure out that I'm gay. My family hasn't done much in terms of telling others that they have a gay family member. I've been out quite a while, so it's overdue, in my opinion. But either way, I'm glad this event is forcing the issue.
hope everything goes well, real talk
 

Mr. Mileena

Champion
so if someone is homophobic it's better that they know to avoid gays from the beginning, right? NO, i would say it is absolutely important that people know each other as people first. If im a homophobe and i dont know you're gay, but we become good friends i would be more inclined to think well of gay people after finding out (assuming im rational) than if i never experience a genial gay person because they introduce themselves as gay and chase me away.

Yes, that's very problematic. The movement is likely aware that the west is still very racist (though we like to tell ourselves that we're not) and conservative, and that if they start from the most radical point of calling for equality for half black, half asian, half native transsexual/transgender (i've never remembered which was which) pan-multisexuals they'll get nothing because the response will be something like <insert deep south accent> "uuuuhhhh, what? are you some sort of communist?"

They introduce themselves as gay because what if one day they introduce their boyfriend to you?

That would shock you, I know it would, because Gay is not the norm in today's world, it is getting there. Once people accept each others sexuality, then there would be no need to introduce yourself as gay, unless otherwise asked. Instead, they can introduce their boyfriend to you without a inch of astonishment.

They say that because 1, they want to be straightforward right off the start, and 2, they have every right to be proud of who they are.