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General/Other - Shinnok The Downplayers of Bone Shaper Shinnok

A month and a half? I'd have to go back n check that. Either way, my point still stands.

As far as what you said, it makes no sense as a response. Cassie has been Cassie since Day 1. Plenty are using her because she is strong. Shinnok recently got buffed to Top tier, and went from "no one uses that shitty character" to "15% of EVO is using the character". Either two things will happen. People will get better with an easy to use, has it all, top tier character that they recently switched to over time, or they'll get worse because the character isn't is as good as initially thought. I highlyyyyyy doubt the latter is the case.

You Shinnok main's are just upset because everyone and their grandma is playing the character right now, for the obvious reason that the character is incredibly strong while being easy to play. It happens.
I never said Shinnok isn't top tier now. I said that he is strong like other strong characters so there is nothing wrong with that. And crying for nerfs is stupid. Evo head over 1100 entrants, 15% from that number is 175 at least, I really doubt there were that many Shinnoks there)
 

ColdBoreMK23

Noob Saibot
The real question is how many BS shinnoks that went to EVO played him for longer than 2 weeks and mained him exclusively?

All the ones I saw were picked up within the last two weeks to hop the bandwagon.

Let's see what happens if these people stick to this character in the next six months and see how well they fair.
 
Reactions: SPY
Honestly, he isn't really...given that you also had Reptile in top 8 and an Ermac and Mileena placing in the top 16 alongside the two Bone Shapers that cracked that high.
I don't think so. I think the guys that placed top are just know the match up better. Reptile, Ermac and Mileena aren't played that much at a high level in tournaments, so a good high level player can use those characters and go further, because their opponents don't know the MU.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
I will say Bone Shaper got overbuffed. I have said on many occasions that his fireball was given too much with the +8 advantage on hit. Everything else is fine, it's just he shouldn't have more than one way to pressure the opponent on plus frames, he should have to do it with Hellsparks like the other variations.
To be honest, I think the advantage frames on the Dark Beam were warranted because it was absolute dildos before the buff, it's the safety of it that makes it overkill IMO. It essentially is free meter on a blockstring. I would even trade the safety of it for a few more advantage frames on hit.
 
Honestly, he isn't really...given that you also had Reptile in top 8 and an Ermac and Mileena placing in the top 16 alongside the two Bone Shapers that cracked that high.
Man, what are you saying?! Those characters placed because what?!? Exactly! because it is too early to say that some are overpowered and some are not tournament viable. Unless if course you are implying that results are random and don't prove anything - than all the BS Shinnok bandwagoning doesn't prove anything either!
 

RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
I disagree. I don't think that's really the answer as to what needs changed. I think the hellspark MB is what really needs to be looked at. +14 from +24 is definitely nerfed, but you can still do guaranteed chip damage loops, which is a problem in itself just because it opens up a lot of pressure because you literally can't do anything. Characters don't need guaranteed chip damage strings like that.
I agree, but this also makes me wonder: Were the high plus on block moves meant to be dealt with via Block Breaker? If so, then why did everything change? If not, then it now seems sort of useless.
 

RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
To be honest, I think the advantage frames on the Dark Beam were warranted because it was absolute dildos before the buff, it's the safety of it that makes it overkill IMO. It essentially is free meter on a blockstring. I would even trade the safety of it for a few more advantage frames on hit.
I definitely think it could use an adjustment for sure. I don't think allowing him more plus advantage on hit for less safety would make people let his chip setups slide, they likely will get rid of all but Hellsparks for chip setups and even then I don't think the plus frames for that will stay. Honestly, the nerf he gets to his plus advantage likely will effect the character permanently and unlike other characters, pro players are crying hard (though I can understand why) so I dunno if Shinnok is making it alive.

Making MB Hellsparks +5 on block means you could just back dash everything, it wouldn't look good.
 

Maxter

Noob
NRS did a pretty good job with Tanya, as evidenced by the fact that she still made Top 8. Quan Chi was touched, but is still good, D'Vorah was touched but still makes Top 8, and Erron Black, etc.

It seems like everything has been done well -- I don't understand this point about people quitting due to the adjustments or NRS ruining the game. They've been handling things fine so far.
I understand Champ, but this top players are doing good not because of the character only but of how good of players they are and they will always look for characters that they believe they will perform good with at the beginning. some nerfs are not being needed just yet really.

The thing is that sometimes these characters are just easy to learn and be good with, but after some time when the game fully evolve they end up not being that good and if they get nerfed it will affect the game later when players develop better skills with other characters that take longer to learn and master or just got good buffs per say. Shinnok took already an universal heavy hit having his EX sparks nerfed and with this he was way better than when he got his latest buffs, this affected necromancer zoning most of all but also hurt the others too badly, Shinnok was better IMO before the latest buffs without the sparks nerfs, but Yes I consider bone shaper got absolutely too good with the re stand projectile and the +24 ex hs, but that advantage is gone and char is just very good while the other variation kind of suck now. if people are doing good with the character it is because I consider Shinnok a good character and top players jumping to him and other players not knowing the matchup, of course theres gonna be an outcry, but no reason to touch this character anymore, I do consider he is easy a top 10 candidate or possibly top 5 on bone shaper as things look right now. But all this crying on this site should stop because good players as mustard woundcowboy DR Detroit and others are pretty much being discredited with their performance, start learning matchups and crying less thats all I could say. sorry for the spelling lol!!!!!!!
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I understand Champ, but this top players are doing good not because of the character only but of how good of players they are and they will always look for characters that they believe they will perform good with at the beginning. some nerfs are not being needed just yet really.

The thing is that sometimes these characters are just easy to learn and be good with, but after some time when the game fully evolve they end up not being that good and if they get nerfed it will affect the game later when players develop better skills with other characters that take longer to learn and master or just got good buffs per say. Shinnok took already an universal heavy hit having his EX sparks nerfed and with this he was way better than when he got his latest buffs, this affected necromancer zoning most of all but also hurt the others too badly, Shinnok was better IMO before the latest buffs without the sparks nerfs, but Yes I consider bone shaper got absolutely too good with the re stand projectile and the +24 ex hs, but that advantage is gone and char is just very good while the other variation kind of suck now. if people are doing good with the character it is because I consider Shinnok a good character and top players jumping to him and other players not knowing the matchup, of course theres gonna be an outcry, but no reason to touch this character anymore, I do consider he is easy a top 10 candidate or possibly top 5 on bone shaper as things look right now. But all this crying on this site should stop because good players as mustard woundcowboy DR Detroit and others are pretty much being discredited with their performance, start learning matchups and crying less thats all I could say. sorry for the spelling lol!!!!!!!
Sup Maximo :cool:

I hear you. Yeah, in either case it seems like it's too early to know for sure right now. We'll have to watch Shinnok for a bit to see how this all ends up.

The good thing is that the game seems to be in a good state right now to let it run for a while. So we're in a good place to evaluate things over the coming weeks. Excited to see where this all goes.
 
I understand Champ, but this top players are doing good not because of the character only but of how good of players they are and they will always look for characters that they believe they will perform good with at the beginning. some nerfs are not being needed just yet really.

The thing is that sometimes these characters are just easy to learn and be good with, but after some time when the game fully evolve they end up not being that good and if they get nerfed it will affect the game later when players develop better skills with other characters that take longer to learn and master or just got good buffs per say. Shinnok took already an universal heavy hit having his EX sparks nerfed and with this he was way better than when he got his latest buffs, this affected necromancer zoning most of all but also hurt the others too badly, Shinnok was better IMO before the latest buffs without the sparks nerfs, but Yes I consider bone shaper got absolutely too good with the re stand projectile and the +24 ex hs, but that advantage is gone and char is just very good while the other variation kind of suck now. if people are doing good with the character it is because I consider Shinnok a good character and top players jumping to him and other players not knowing the matchup, of course theres gonna be an outcry, but no reason to touch this character anymore, I do consider he is easy a top 10 candidate or possibly top 5 on bone shaper as things look right now. But all this crying on this site should stop because good players as mustard woundcowboy DR Detroit and others are pretty much being discredited with their performance, start learning matchups and crying less thats all I could say. sorry for the spelling lol!!!!!!!
Thank God! Someone who plays Shinnok, knows what's up and isn't stupid like 90% of other people who give their opinion on the character they don't know a thing about.
 

Fractured_Shadow

Really likes to throw things at you.
Damn.... After talking with @Cosner at EVO I can totally see he wasn't kidding about the plummeting IQ here on TYM...
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Man, what are you saying?! Those characters placed because what?!? Exactly! because it is too early to say that some are overpowered and some are not tournament viable. Unless if course you are implying that results are random and don't prove anything - than all the BS Shinnok bandwagoning doesn't prove anything either!
Those characters placed because they placed. As it currently stands, they are considered mid tier or lower, and even unviable. My point on that is that it's not impossible for any character to make top 8 or top 16.

M2dave has never said Shinnok is OP, either. He has only said he is very good and likely among the top 5 at least, which I agree with.
 
Those characters placed because they placed. As it currently stands, they are considered mid tier or lower, and even unviable. My point on that is that it's not impossible for any character to make top 8 or top 16.

M2dave has never said Shinnok is OP, either. He has only said he is very good and likely among the top 5 at least, which I agree with.
Top 5 at least? How are you guys predicting this. As we have just seen the meta of the game is still unfolding. And you can say that some character is top 5 AT LEAST???!! That is nuts. There are too many characters in top 5 according to TYM))))
 

D. R.

Noob
This thread is still a thing? I guess the scrubs crying nerf haven't drank their bleach yet. Get on it.

Another funny thing, I called Kitana to win Evo a couple days back. Man was I close. It's like I have a thing for realizing potential in characters. Must be my mathematically inclined, critical thinking skills. Or just a lucky guess. :)

Now if the bleach doesn't kill you fools then go hop on that Kitana bandwagon. She seems to be the new hotness for you posers.