Strategy The Boy Wonder! -- Nightwing General Discussion Thread

[Adam Todd]

Press the button to where you'd go into alts. And press start on Nightwing's normal costume (or any costume for each 2p color).

Thank you sir! Do all costumes have a 2p color? Like his new 52 costume, or Superman's godfall?

 

[Saitsu]

Thank you sir! Do all costumes have a 2p color? Like his new 52 costume, or Superman's godfall?

Yep.

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

New 52's 2P color is one reason why idk if an Arkham City skin is the best idea. It's basically the same thing.

 

[AssassiN]

All wakeup attacks have 8 frames of invulnerability. Staff db3 is his fastest special at 12f and the only half decent wake up option he has

Actually no, the invincibility frames depend on the wake-up attack.
Some have none, others have more invincibility frames.

Best wake-up attacks to get them off you are Escrima Fury in Escrima stance and Staff Spin in Staff stance.
Downside is that Escrima Fury can be baited and punished hard by blocking, Staff Spin can be avoided by jumping over Nightwing and can be punished as well.

 

[Saitsu]

Really the best wakeup option is the best one in most games. BLOCK.

 

[AK partyeagle]

huh, good looking out AssassiN . coulda sworn i heard brady or someone say all had 8 like mk9. my bad .

i will say though that because escrima fury is death on block and has 6 frames of startup left before it even hits I would never ever ever do wake up attack in escrima. like saitsu said, block is DA BES .

i ONLY ever do a wakeup staff spin if i know they are just mashing a string on wake up hoping it will catch me or the like, because its safe on block and only has 4 frames of vulnerability... with a huge hit box in front of it. but once the opponent knows how to beat the wake up attack i stop doing it........ will hail mary flying greysons everyonce once in a while (staff bf3) cuz it has some magical hitbox/hurtbox properties.

 

[theSkareqro]

Hey guys I came up with a pretty good fuzzy guard blockstring. I didn't really test it extensively whether it hits an opponent crouching etc but hey. You don't block low with Nightwing or it's B.2 time. It's pretty effective online though XD

From Escrima
F.213 (you can start with any actually) xx trait xx groundblast
So right now you have a 9frame advantage on block or 11frame on hit
From there, you are in staff stance.

In Staff stance do J.2 1F.1 xx special of your choice. If they pressed a button after the jump in, they get interrupted by the 1F.1 thus eating that special. Once they stop pressing anything and blocking low, you can change that 1F.1 into 2 for an overhead. You can also J.2 1F.1 xx trait xx somersault for some insane up down left right shenanigans into combo on hit and it's SAFE on block! You also get changed back to Escrima Stance.

Pretty hard to react to due to multiple overheads and lows and 50-50 left right. It's pretty safe as well.

What do you guys think? I haven't try it offline yet since my country don't really have an offline scene

 

[NightwingDayZero]

My block string looks like

112 f213 xx4 db2MB b3 ji2 d1 1f1 db3 xx4 112

If by the second 112 I haven't scored a hit ill either b13 or b2

also, how does one select P2 skin as P1?

 

[AK partyeagle]

My block string looks like

112 f213 xx4 db2MB b3 ji2 d1 1f1 db3 xx4 112

If by the second 112 I haven't scored a hit ill either b13 or b2

also, how does one select P2 skin as P1?

i like this string. good stuff , my only thing is the 112 after db3 4 . iirc you are not at frame adv here

Hey guys I came up with a pretty good fuzzy guard blockstring....

good stuff, you pretty much described my mix ups off the corner pressure video I posted , i didnt spell it out this clearly though.
also finally got to play some real matches this week, my crew has a green lantern/aquaman , a wonderwoman , a green arrow, and a superman. the one thing i pulled away is that so far, my staff game is much better than my escrima . been trying to work it in but staff is so much more straight forward and people really cant handle how good it is just yet. i just feel that everything escrima does, staff does better, and THEN has more answers for matches (better AA , better mixups , better pressure etc.)


how have you other dicks been fairing with escrima? i wanna hear your strats on this stance

 

[NightwingDayZero]

i like this string. good stuff , my only thing is the 112 after db3 4 . iirc you are not at frame adv here

Not at all, at that point if they're blocking everything I'm getting desperate hahaha

I think I may start ending it with a cancel into escrima DB1. I'm not sure if it will leave me +/- but having them blocking low will, in theory, give me the jump in initiative?

 

[AK partyeagle]

I think I may start ending it with a cancel into escrima DB1. I'm not sure if it will leave me +/- but having them blocking low will, in theory, give me the jump in initiative?

db1? the scatterbombs? im pretty sure those whiff on ducking opponents. i'd just end that last 1f1 with escrima db3 MB personally. its safe and a combo starting overhead that has VERY deceptive range .

 

[theSkareqro]

My block string looks like

112 f213 xx4 db2MB b3 ji2 d1 1f1 db3 xx4 112

If by the second 112 I haven't scored a hit ill either b13 or b2

also, how does one select P2 skin as P1?

Press Start.

partyeagle
Yeah I feel the same way. The thing that bothers me the most is that Escrima stance doesn't have a good hitconfirm and a low starter. Being a rushdown stance, that's pretty weak. The range on most strings is pretty ugh. It's hard to punish easy stuff sometimes. It's pretty ironic that the staff does better in rushdown. Maybe it's just we haven't figured out our Dick's arsenal yet but I know for sure b.2, Wingdings and his movement speed is godsend.

 

[MLGIHydro]

My block string looks like

112 f213 xx4 db2MB b3 ji2 d1 1f1 db3 xx4 112

If by the second 112 I haven't scored a hit ill either b13 or b2

also, how does one select P2 skin as P1?

When I'm feeling risky I'll B2 after the first 112. Most people don't know how positive on block 112 is and will try to punish.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

B2xx4 DB3xx4 112?

Would this work to cheese anyone out? Might not be safe but it could be a gimmick for getting in range.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

So I've been struggling with Nightwing's left right cross up spacing since day 1.

Here is something I put together that results in the perfect spacing for an escrima cross up ji2.

B2xx4xxdb3xx4 forward dash. from this point ji2 will cross up for BNB success.

To some this may seem rudimentary, but I'm new to the genre so every little thing I do is broken down. FYI the AI is set to tech roll and wake up with Lanterns Might aka Lift.

If you opponent is hit with both the overhead and cross up he's looking at losing 57% health.

 

[AK partyeagle]

To some this may seem rudimentary, but I'm new to the genre so every little thing I do is broken down. FYI the AI is set to tech roll and wake up with Lanterns Might

Goodshit NDZ. I was trying do a similiar setup last week,but couldn't get anything reliable. Can you do a few things for me? Can you test them waking up wthout tech rollig and test the wake up backdashing? If t they truely gotta block I see alotta potential for this. Could you imagine if we could end every combo in staffspin 4. Into a blocked ji2 for a true mix up of b2 and d3? B2 could comob right back into this mixup and d3 you can dash afterwards and do db3MB and they have to block it(stuffs laterns might at least)

 

[theSkareqro]

I just discovered that staff spin is NOT -38 on block. Staff spin xx 4 is also safe. I couldn't punish with Corp Charge on either.
So I'm guessing it is -5 but it's definitely not a +frame move Superman's super punished it on block in reversal timing

I suggest doing a d.1 xx staff spin/d.1 xx ground blast off of it. Keep doing until your opponent stops pressing buttons then start your mix-up. It's kinda safe as the multihit and blockstun is pretty hard to MB.B3 as the timing is quite tight and if their super is above 105frames (i think they meant 5frames), you would block instead of the d.1 coming out. Oh, you can also switch it Escrima Stance and do a d.12 xx. The only safer way to get out is to jump as soon as the staff spin ends. Even if they get hit, it will mess up with your timing unless you are looking for it. Also, they can't pushblock the staff spin unless it's the last hit as even if 1 frame is neutral or towards, they will eat it.

So in summary, use more staff spin. It is safe, essentially unpush-blockable, leads to many frametraps and set-ups and also builds so many meter on block and free chip.

I need to test this more but it seem like staff spin is gonna be an important part in Nightwing's pressure.

 

[Kas]

Got into a discussion with some friends. They noticed I used staff stance way more then escrima stance. Which I do. But they are trying to convince me to use escrimas a bit more. And honestly the more we talk about it the less I ever want to use escrimas at all. Besides the few cross ups setups you can do with escrimas I think staff stance outshines it in every way. Full screen against zoners I use staff, full screen against people trying to get in I use staff. For pressure I use staff hands down. Its anti airs are better. The damage is better. Confirms are easier. And range is better. If someone can post a video of themself showing me the point of escirmas id really appreciate it lol cuz im at a loss for the point. <3

 

[AK Gookus]

I've been using Nightwing to rushdown and get a commanding life lead in Escrima. Usually around the start of round 2, I get more patient and use staff. But I am falling into the same pits you are with staff. Loving it soo much more over Escrima. Only main reason I ever switch back is to get in/use overhead interactables. Also, 113 or b2 combos for punishing quickly are really fun

 

[AssassiN]

I just discovered that staff spin is NOT -38 on block. Staff spin xx 4 is also safe. I couldn't punish with Corp Charge on either.
So I'm guessing it is -5 but it's definitely not a +frame move Superman's super punished it on block in reversal timing

I suggest doing a d.1 xx staff spin/d.1 xx ground blast off of it. Keep doing until your opponent stops pressing buttons then start your mix-up. It's kinda safe as the multihit and blockstun is pretty hard to MB.B3 as the timing is quite tight and if their super is above 105frames (i think they meant 5frames), you would block instead of the d.1 coming out. Oh, you can also switch it Escrima Stance and do a d.12 xx. The only safer way to get out is to jump as soon as the staff spin ends. Even if they get hit, it will mess up with your timing unless you are looking for it. Also, they can't pushblock the staff spin unless it's the last hit as even if 1 frame is neutral or towards, they will eat it.

So in summary, use more staff spin. It is safe, essentially unpush-blockable, leads to many frametraps and set-ups and also builds so many meter on block and free chip.

I need to test this more but it seem like staff spin is gonna be an important part in Nightwing's pressure.

That was already known about Staff Spin being safe on block, it is an important part in his rushdown because they'll have to respect it. Once they do, you can switch to Ground Blast.
Staff Spin is like -3 on block, not too sure about it.

Pako already said that the frame data of multiple hits are wrong, with Nightwing that is:
Escrima
- 113(safe, like -1 or -2 on block)
- F213(safe, -1 or -2 on block)
- D12(for some reason it's wrong as well, +4 on block)
- Flip kick MB(safe, -3 I'd say)
Might be wrong:
- Ground Spark MB
- Wing Ding
- Air Wing Ding

Staff
- Staff Spin(safe, around -3 on block)
- Ground Blast MB(not +18 on block, would say around +12 on block)
Might be wrong:
- Staff Spin MB(looks like it's still +18 on block, but it's multi-hit so dunno)

His pressure should mostly evolve changing into Staff and doing Staff Spin MB or Ground Blasts while doing Escrima pressure.

 

[TakeAChance]

Escrima is for mobility. Switching to it to get in is essential in some matchups. Use it to get in, utilize a frame trap and switch back to staff.

Ever try dealing with power characters who use stage interactions in staff mode? It aint pretty.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Goodshit NDZ. I was trying do a similiar setup last week,but couldn't get anything reliable. Can you do a few things for me? Can you test them waking up wthout tech rollig and test the wake up backdashing? If t they truely gotta block I see alotta potential for this. Could you imagine if we could end every combo in staffspin 4. Into a blocked ji2 for a true mix up of b2 and d3? B2 could comob right back into this mixup and d3 you can dash afterwards and do db3MB and they have to block it(stuffs laterns might at least)

Ok. So here's what I did. Here's what I found.

Set Nightwing to AI. Recorded the setup against a few different characters.

Superman can escape (not punish) this setup using Rising Grab. However, even if the ji2 whiffs, you still have time to b2xx4xxdb3xx4 and put him right back into the mixup. Superman can backdash, but if you're following the ji2 with any 11 string, he can press buttons and get beat. Back dash recovery frames put him at a greater disadvantage than our ji2 - as far as I know.

Same goes for The Flash. If you're coming in swinging, he's going to eat the hits after the backdash. He has the same means of escaping that Superman has, but B2xx4xxdb3xx4 will put them right back in the blender.

Batman can backdash as well, but none of his normals come out quickly enough to punish 11 string follow ups. I didn't test his parry, the activation time on that might beat us out, but I'll have to try that in the lab later. I tested 112, but in retrospect maybe I should have tested Batman's B113 the first two hits are low, and our 11 string starts high. Again, more for later.

Cyborg's backdash is not fast enough. This is the character I was most worried about given the strength of his d1. I did not test any of his wakeup options. But like I said, his D1 is beat only by Nightwing's staff D1. In retrospect, he does have an attack that fires overhead that might beat our crossup. I think it costs meter? I'll have to do some more homework.

The good thing here, is we're creating a problem. We're limiting their wakeup options based on the follow up to this hard knockdown produced by converting on our best normal. Even if this turns out to be a gimmick, it's still a gimmick you're throwing at someone who may or may not be familiar with punishing/escaping it. Hell, Guamo beat Online Tony because he didn't know Deathstroke could bait the Ground Spark - dash on reaction and punish from range with pistols. It's all about abusing shit, right?

 

[AK partyeagle]

well its not too crazy but it is something sneaky to use in a match. will be good every once in a while to throw out

 

[Kas]

Escrima is for mobility. Switching to it to get in is essential in some matchups. Use it to get in, utilize a frame trap and switch back to staff.

Ever try dealing with power characters who use stage interactions in staff mode? It aint pretty.

Good points, I forgot about using enviroments during my little rant. But you can usually flying grayson and be safe or trade with MB b3 unless your all the way across the screen, then yea your right. I also forgot to mention I think escrimas a pretty useful for the grundy matchup. But besides that man idk. Staff is just so good. We really need to get some more nightwing footage up imoz. I want to see how other people play with their Dick.

 

[TakeAChance]

Good points, I forgot about using enviroments during my little rant. But you can usually flying grayson and be safe or trade with MB b3 unless your all the way across the screen, then yea your right. I also forgot to mention I think escrimas a pretty useful for the grundy matchup. But besides that man idk. Staff is just so good. We really need to get some more nightwing footage up imoz. I want to see how other people play with their Dick.

I play with my dick hard.

Seriously, I go all in. Willy Nilly.