Tekken 8 is being designed around "Aggression" and much less "Footsies"

[REO]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601186414808662017

Seems like the inevitable is happening and what caught up to Street Fighter, Marvel, Smash, Guilty Gear, etc. is now finally happening to Tekken. Tekken, which has a reputation of being very neutral and footsie focused, with deep knowledge, healthy execution, stellar mindgames, and an overall technical and impressive fighting game structure for today's standards when compared to most fighting games these days, is going to be changing to benefit the "viewers" more than the players. It seems like good decision making, defensive play, execution, and now "footsies" are no longer becoming part of an important focus on what designs a "good" fighting game. Fighting games are slowly heading towards the direction of simplicity, eye-candy, viewer-engaging, with a pick up and play premise in the hopes of making them more mainstream and popular. (similar to MOBAs and Shooters).

NRS seemed to be ahead of the ballgame when they designed MKX, a fighter which focuses on offense, 50/50s, simplistic game maneuverability, and very exciting gameplay to it's viewers. Many fighting game developers have been taking a page and modeling their new fighting games to mimic some of the standards set from MKX. What does this mean for the future of Tekken? Players in tweets and reddit are speculating that Tekken 8 will have stronger offense, better mix-ups, tracking hellsweeps, guard breaking normals, safer 50/50s, and easier ways to execution offense and punish defensive players. Is this a good or bad thing for Tekken? I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[undergroundvgt]

i prefer aggression over defensive any day! time for me to shine in tekken 8!!!

 

[Law Hero]

To be fair, unless I missed something, no where does Harada say that there will be "less focus on 'footsies'". What's said is, “We felt that the person attacking should be really enjoying the gameplay and enjoying themselves and to feel like they’re at advantage and they have a better chance to win if they go on the offensive rather than turtling up.”

They also mention the (currently) mysterious Heat System which is, from what I understand, the main force driving the more aggressive gameplay. From the gameplay trailer, we see Jin appear to utilize a resource like burning meter to cancel Demon Paw and gain huge advantage on block. I think the current theory is that Tekken will be adding meter to all characters that you can use to enhance moves or change their properties and that meter will go to the more aggressive player to encourage offense.

I think Tekken has a solid enough system to handle some gameplay changes/additions without breaking itself over an attempt to change the pace of a match, but we'll see. I know it's not the common opinion, but I found Tekken 7 rather boring to play compared to Tag 2, so I'm excited in seeing what they do to spice things up. Also, I like that it seems they're going to add an emphasis on stage interaction since I found the stage designs (gameplay-wise) to be really boring in Tekken 7. The only thing that annoys/worries me is no release date. Tekken and MK are my main fighting games, and since I didn't care for T7 or MK11, I'm dying over here without anything to play.

 

[mrapchem]

We won't know anything until the game is out, but...I sincerely hope that this new Tekken's gameplay isn't modeled after MKX. Was MKX fun to play? Yes - for the person on offense and the viewer. The person on defense was seldom ever having fun because it was exceedingly difficult to actually play defensively. Anti-airs were weak, playing neutral was nearly exclusive to mid-screen or further, stages were tiny, and 50/50s were far too plentiful and rewarding.

One lesson that Bandai-Namco had better learn from NRS's experience with MK11 is this:

do not alienate your core fanbase by removing moves/lore/mechanics/meta components that they enjoy the most, and certainly do not replace those things with new mechanics that they never asked for, especially to solve problems that may or may not have truly existed.

Only time will tell - perhaps the changes that Tekken is getting will actually prove to be fun for players and viewers alike and prove to be a hit with its core fans. Or perhaps its changes will cause players to revolt against it in the same way that MKX did for us. Let's hope for the former.

 

[Marinjuana]

When are defensive armored launchers coming back to fighting games?

 

[Kiss the Missile]

I've been seeing a bit negativity towards T8 from people like KingJae, FrameWhisperer, Mainman and LilMajin. Now really isn't the time for Tekken to slip up, they got to the top because SFV was such a fuckup at the time. But now the CapGods are back in control, Namco can't be doing this fucky shit. They need to listen to the community

Its speculation for sure, but you can see the developers' mindset pretty clearly. Even back in T7 when they made Hellsweep track to both sides and Murray said "why would you want to sidestep when you can just block and launch everytime" the community hated it so much they removed it, but it seems like they're doubling down on it. Frame made a really good point about catering a game towards offense. He said no matter how much focus you put into offensive play in a game, you're simultaneously putting emphasis on defensive play because for one player to be doing all this sick block string pressure and mixups, another has to sit there and defend it. The difference is how much agency you have in your defensive play. Can you dodge and weave with your movement? Or are you just going to be blocking and trading mixups with your opponent over and over

Slowdown is sick because it rarely ever actually affects the mechanics of a match. Its just a little visual flare for the end of a round. But Murray and Harada both have been on endless loops of how much they want the game to look good for Esports spectators. They want shit to be flashy, explosive, big moves and launchers. Which is fucking stupid because the times Tekken 7 was at its absolute apex of FGC attention is when we were watching people try to take down Saint's Jack 7, the most basic character in Tekken. Its when we watched Arslan dominate using Kazumi with literally 3 fucking moves. T7 became a joke with Leroy. That overpowered, overwhelming shit became boring to watch. He had all the crazy launchers, the orbital heel, the damage, but it was all hollow.

 

[Gooberking]

I wasn't good at Tekken and I don't want to just freely speculate on something we don't have actual implementation details fore or experience with, but the agenda does seem odd for the franchise. The comments don't seem to speak to being reserved when it comes to what they are planning on emphasizing. I'm fine with there being aggression focused games, and want different things to exist, but the conversation around Tekken definitely has me on pause.

If there is one class of player I've always had trouble with is one that believes winning is attached to how many buttons they push per second. It's weird watching someone go hard with a character that lets them, then seeing them try with one that doesn't and clearly shows they don't actually understand anything about the game outside of the offense. Each game seems to give these people a degree of success before the BS stops working and forces people to learn the whole game or accept staying at that level. Tekken appeared (to me) to force learning the game for success very early on in the skill ladder. It was a unique quality it had and I don't know what the problem is needing to be fixed.

Tekken 7 seemed fun to watch, and play. When you win neutral it's pretty wild and entertaining. What is making aggression feel good? Just hitting buttons and not having to worry about paying a price for pressing buttons you shouldn't have? Do they want the risk reward skewed so the top level players get randomly opened up, while the rest of us what; get forced to use offense because nobody but top level players can actually guard?

Words aren't implementations, so we will see what really happens, but it seems like some eyebrow raising things to be saying and games that are wild agressive are games I personally don't tend to enjoy playing

 

[Art Lean]

Sounds like a foot fetish porn site taking a turn for the worst.

But imagine Swindle will be loving it

 

[John Grizzly]

I think some people are overreacting to everything related to Tekken 8.

OMG PAUL'S HAIR LOOKS SO STUPID! - This coming from the same morons who probably put a shower head, swimming floatie, deer head and frog bell bottoms on their fucking character customs. Even if customization is gone (which Namco does want to do) there will still be countless skins for these characters. They won't all have Karen hair for Paul, just choose one of those.

As far as gameplay goes, from what I've gathered, the whole Heat System is simply a way to make some moves that had little utility in the past more useful. For example, in the recent trailer Lars uses his FF+3 (a move you'd never use) and then cancels it into Heat which appears to cause a Bound-like state. allowing for a combo from a move that was shit before. As far as the combo goes that Lars performs, it seems like they intentially showed us that there was NO TAILSPIN extension. To me, I take this as Namco trying to tell us that the Heat system will make lots of moves more useful, but there will be limitations associated with this mechanic (possibly no tailspin and tied to a meter of some sort).

The bottom line is that we don't know much so I'm not going to freak out. If given the choice between an offense-focused game and something insanely boring to play and watch like MK11, I'm choosing fast-paced and offensive-focused every single time, though.

 

[Marlow]

is going to be changing to benefit the "viewers" more than the players. It seems like good decision making, defensive play, execution, and now "footsies" are no longer becoming part of an important focus on what designs a "good" fighting game.

Seems like that might be reading into things a bit much. The article makes it sound like they're more concerned with both the viewer and the player, it doesn't say anything about benefiting the viewer more than the player. And it never mentions footsies anywhere in the article.

 

[Revy]

What a surprise that one of the last major franchises would fall to the stems of modern fight game bullshit too, just like all the rest. I think there's only 4 franchises left & 2 would be lucky to release a game in next 5 years.

 

[John Grizzly]

What a surprise that one of the last major franchises would fall to the stems of modern fight game bullshit too, just like all the rest. I think there's only 4 franchises left & 2 would be lucky to release a game in next 5 years.

I mean, can we make these assumptions already? We've seen about 10 total seconds of gameplay. As I said in my above post, I don't think the Heat System will be as bad as people are making it out to be.

The only thing I'm a bit concerned about is Namco nerfing movement again.

 

[Swindle]

Sounds like a foot fetish porn site taking a turn for the worst.

But imagine Swindle will be loving it

You’re goddamned right.

 

[M2Dave]

I think some people are overreacting to everything related to Tekken 8.

Correct, and this thread is a reflection of your statement.

I am obviously not a part of the Tekken 8 production staff, but I can confidently assure you that Harada is not thinking "How do I design Tekken 8 to be like Mortal Kombat X?" This talking point is preposterous in multiple inconceivable ways not even worth acknowledging or discussing. LOL.

Tekken is a legacy game. It has been since Tekken 3, a game released in 1997.

Although Namco has been modernizing Tekken by including polemic gameplay elements, the franchise, unlike Mortal Kombat nowadays, is vastly regulated by the competitive fighting game scene around the globe.

Besides, even if this bizarre connection between Tekken 8 and Mortal Kombat X is accurate, I had much rather play a game similar to Mortal Kombat X than the embarrassing catastrophe known as Mortal Kombat 11.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Ppl have jumped the gun again apparently.

Anyway, there isn't much details to go on yet, this will be discussed when we know more, rather than throwing wild guesses here and there.

Hey everyone.

 

[JJvercetti]

I am more worried about issues with the game when released as I am going to guess that this is going to be a non arcade first release. Remember the things like triple floor breaks in one combo, 100% death combos with most of the cast. Movement so nerfed, you had to fight Paul straight up and more than likely died in 4 seconds and crazy safe moves like Claudio and Shaheen's hopkick and hitbox issues. I understand that a lot of the issues was to do with working with Unreal Engine for the first time for Tekken but I hope any issues are able to be sorted out and patched fast.

 

[Jynks]

I think this is bad news for Tekken. As it is, it is one of the most unforgiving games. My main gripe with it is that it is one touch death all the way. I think the healthbars need to be like double the length at least in the last few versions. If they make it more aggressive, but do not alter the the way they have been doing damage the last few years... it could be a real annoying game.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I am more worried about issues with the game when released as I am going to guess that this is going to be a non arcade first release. Remember the things like triple floor breaks in one combo, 100% death combos with most of the cast. Movement so nerfed, you had to fight Paul straight up and more than likely died in 4 seconds and crazy safe moves like Claudio and Shaheen's hopkick and hitbox issues. I understand that a lot of the issues was to do with working with Unreal Engine for the first time for Tekken but I hope any issues are able to be sorted out and patched fast.

First edition will be indeed crazy, but will see how they will tackle this, with the patch system in place.
A lot of the moves are being recaptured and every model is being remade from scratch, i like this because it will make the game feel fresh, for example, Jin's 21, and 1+2 now has much better range than any other tekken before, he technically has devil jin reaching normals in his arms now, which is a good thing, bye bye stubby jin.

I think this is bad news for Tekken. As it is, it is one of the most unforgiving games. My main gripe with it is that it is one touch death all the way. I think the healthbars need to be like double the length at least in the last few versions. If they make it more aggressive, but do not alter the the way they have been doing damage the last few years... it could be a real annoying game.

No. The touch of death in tekken is necessary, because for you to get there, means you really did commit to a very heavy mistake

The risk factor in tekken isn't like any other game where there is like a 3f jab combo starter, even if this happens a lot, still plays heavily on the risk factor system, as tekken allows you to gauge how risky you want to place your bet on, and the higher is the risk, the higher will also be the price you will play for it.

i for once, love it and wished every game had a similar system, when you see combos in tekken, they feel a great purpose, because you can't just start a combo from a Jab, unless of course you were 2D characters where this was a trait, everyone else has to play by the book.

 

[Jynks]

yeah I get what you saying. I'm just saying I do not find it fun is all. I like a game that has swings.. were you can have come backs and recover from mistakes. Tekken isn't very fun to play and boring as hell to watch imo. I know that is an unpopular opinion but it is how I feel. I actually think a lot of fighting games would benefit from 2 or 3 times bigger health bars.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Ppl have jumped the gun again apparently.

Every single time.

 

[haketh]

I actually think a lot of fighting games would benefit from 2 or 3 times bigger health bars.

Stares in TO


Absolutely not lmao

 

[Marlow]

yeah I get what you saying. I'm just saying I do not find it fun is all. I like a game that has swings.. were you can have come backs and recover from mistakes. Tekken isn't very fun to play and boring as hell to watch imo. I know that is an unpopular opinion but it is how I feel. I actually think a lot of fighting games would benefit from 2 or 3 times bigger health bars.

I actually don't care to watch Tekken either, although I'm happy for people who like it. Strangely I do like watching Virtua Fighter though. Might just be that of the two I'm more familiar with VF, while I've never really played much Tekken.

 

[Gooberking]

I don't sit down and really watch much these days, but I personally think Tekken is comparatively fun to watch. The couple of months I was actively playing T7 is probably the most fun I've had with a fighting game since SF2 first hit arcades

 

[kabelfritz]

sad

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Apparently they weren't lying

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1622337917107507200

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1622423133390098432

 

[exflyingbooty]

This game has chip damage, what a fucking joke and you recover chip damage by attacking constantly lmao.

When this game stops being shiny and brand new people are going to hate it.

 

[REO]

Oh, look yet another fighting game that features caveman-esque mix-ups and primitive offensive "swag" with the action-packed "combo simulator" that all of us mindlessly want to do every single time we pop in a fighting game. Apparently the 10+ anime games currently out that are combo simulators aren't enough. Things like this make me glad I stuck to MK games over the years because when ever an MK game is not my cup of tea, I just have to wait two years for the next new NRS game to try and see if I like it more than the previous one. If NRS made one fighting game every ten years like SF and Tekken do, I would've jumped ship a long time ago.