Technical Complaints about MK9

[TyrantRevolver]

Ok. So I had a conversation with several experienced Fighting game vets among several SF AE, MVC3, and MK9 players for casuals last night. Here's what came up:

One of the SF AE vets thats been playing MK 9 for the past few weeks was making some assessments about the game. Non-biased, just very technical assessments. He brought up something about throw breaks in this game that 2 other players claim they have also experienced. They all felt it was silly that you can't break a throw while blocking. Like if you're holding block and you read a throw attempt, you can't break the throw if you're blocking which they feel is a bad design flaw. In essence because of the way this is designed they felt that the risk vs reward of attempting a throw break was not worth it: In most cases it was better to potentially eat a throw then risk eating a full combo. Truth be told it wasn't something I was aware of until recently.

Have any of you heard of any very technical assessments of MK9's design you'd like to share that you feel should be changed to make the game better?

And if not do you any of you agree with the statement about how throw breaks are designed?

 

[Hitoshura]

Ok. So I had a conversation with several experienced Fighting game vets among several SF AE, MVC3, and MK9 players for casuals last night. Here's what came up:

One of the SF AE vets thats been playing MK 9 for the past few weeks was making some assessments about the game. Non-biased, just very technical assessments. He brought up something about throw breaks in this game that 2 other players claim they have also experienced. They all felt it was silly that you can't break a throw while blocking. Like if you're holding block and you read a throw attempt, you can't break the throw if you're blocking which they feel is a bad design flaw. In essence because of the way this is designed they felt that the risk vs reward of attempting a throw break was not worth it: In most cases it was better to potentially eat a throw then risk eating a full combo. Truth be told it wasn't something I was aware of until recently.

Have any of you heard of any very technical assessments of MK9's design you'd like to share that you feel should be changed to make the game better?

And if not do you any of you agree with the statement about how throw breaks are designed?

A wise man told me something once and since then I have looked at the technical aspects of the game in a different light.

"The only thing consistent about mk9 is the start button"

 

[CaliJokerstyle]

I agree with the throw tech and i hear that a lot too. Really teching a throw in MK is a bit of luck more than skill due to the fact you can't tech off block. I would say most of the time its tech due to the fact you are trying to put forth ofense.

The other complaint i hear are the random happenings. For example sometimes are characters move will auto correct while in the exact same match the next time used it won't. Still a great game though.

 

[Rathalos]

Last patch they added a knob for there hotfixing thing that allows them to make it so you can break well blocking, but they haven't decided if there going to turn it on.

 

[aj1701]

NRS reconizes this. They added a switch in a previous patch that allows them to flip a switch via hotfix that WOULD allow throw breaks even while blocking. Its still off for now, but could be changed.

EDIT: Damnit, one minue too late!

 

[TyrantRevolver]

Last patch they added a knob for there hotfixing thing that allows them to make it so you can break well blocking, but they haven't decided if there going to turn it on.

Jesus christ what are they waiting for flip that b!+ch!

 

[Robotic]

That's a "rock and a hard place" situation. The whole idea is fundamentally flawed and they need to revisit the throw tech from scratch.

Let's say I can tech while blocking, what's to stop me from teching while blocking 100% of the time? There is no risk involved in me doing so. Now throws become obsolete.

 

[Dark_Rob]

A wise man told me something once and since then I have looked at the technical aspects of the game in a different light.

"The only thing consistent about mk9 is the start button"

Bullshit, the start button is buggy as hell to.
About the only thing this game is consistent at is making me say "wtf is wrong with this game??" Every time I sit down and play it. Weird hitboxes, wierder
collision detection, input glitches, wakeup moves that are invincible randomly or randomly not. I've seen so much weird shit with this game I don't know where to begin.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

Throws should be techable while holding block, it's just stupid. You can mix up pressure strings all day long and get free throws doing it. Retarded.

I don't even attempt to tech a throw anymore, because 9/10 I'm holding block. This game needs a lot of work; hopefully the next installment will be significantly better and not half-assed but I'm not holding my breath at this point.

Let's say I can tech while blocking, what's to stop me from teching while blocking 100% of the time? There is no risk involved in me doing so. Now throws become obsolete.

They wouldn't become obsolete, they just wouldn't be nearly guaranteed damage.

 

[Hitoshura]

Bullshit, the start button is buggy as hell to.
About the only thing this game is consistent at is making me say "wtf is wrong with this game??" Every time I sit down and play it. Weird hitboxes, wierder
collision detection, input glitches, wakeup moves that are invincible randomly or randomly not. I've seen so much weird shit with this game I don't know where to begin.

HAHAHAHAHAH! rob i just pictured ur voice screaming in my ear saying BULLSHIT!!!! hahahah!

 

[randomdps]

Old school SF and Tekken player here, and I can agree with the aforementioned assessment of the throw-breaking mechanic.

I was saying, day 1, that not being able to break a throw while blocking is absolutely absurd, as it creates too many poor incentives in the context of solid play. Also, it negates the viability of straight-up turtling as a playstyle, rendering the game a bit one dimensional, in terms of gameplay texture. The lack of a reversal mechanic (outside of wake-up) also nullifies quite a bit of the intrigue of pressure and footsie.

Throws should be breakable while blocking, but only with a 1+2 universal break. If there's going to be two different breaks, then there needs to be two different animations. There's already a mixup in the throw/low/mid/block/armored-or-invincible-move meta, and thus there is no reason to add to said contrivance by enforcing yet another mixup; it's just asinine. Nevertheless, I have become accustomed to all of these issues, and have made my peace with them a la the Kubler Ross model, lol: Acceptance. *sighs*

I notice that a lot of players here seem to think that adding a reversal mechanic to the game would "turn it into SF", but they're obviously just ignoring the meter, the supers, wake-up attacks, the negative edge, the 2-in-1 system, and the fact that none of those things really give the game any identity other than MK. These elements give the game's meta a few more dimensions, but it remains, nevertheless, MK. What people in this community are essentially saying is: "no, don't deepen my game with tried and true functions from other games even though that's already what the game did".

 

[THTB]

1. These guys are AE players who are entirely used to being able to tech throws while crouch blocking (Yes, I do know about tech traps).

2. Teching while blocking severely hinders throws. Unlike in AE, pressing buttons while blocking does not perform an attack.

3. Technical assessments? Too much buggy shit lol. I love the game, but too much stuff is buggy...like, I clearly hit down and 4. How the hell do I end up with a standing 4?

 

[randomdps]

That's a "rock and a hard place" situation. The whole idea is fundamentally flawed and they need to revisit the throw tech from scratch.

Let's say I can tech while blocking, what's to stop me from teching while blocking 100% of the time? There is no risk involved in me doing so. Now throws become obsolete.

You're painting a narrow argument with too broad of a brush. Here's what your logic does not take into account:

1.) Throws would still be duck-able, a la Tekken. What's good about this is that it create incentives to duck and/or reversal to end stalemates or yomi loops. This has been happening in Tekken since Tag, and creates great meta games. It works both ways, and deepens the level of thought required to properly play situations out.

2.) Throws in MK9 are all faster than Mad Axes, which isn't exactly the easiest thing to break on reaction when looking for mids and lows as well. Mad Axes was i10 throughout most Tekkens iirc, and is essentially the speed of all T6 jabs. That's not to be snorted at, especially when you consider the fact that throws in MK9 are even faster.

3.) Simply because you could break throws while blocking does not imply that there wouldn't be an input limit upon the break window. I.e., you cannot mash breaks, they have to be deliberate, precise...

 

[GNG Iniquity]

What I don't understand is, why're so many MK players so against this game developing depth and the ability to defend/counter? As it stands, this game is 100% offense. It's as one dimensional as it comes. Everything chips as it is, what's the harm in teching a throw while holding block?

I'm convinced that a large amount of the MK community hates technical FGs. Don't you guys get tired of repeating the same basic bnb combos, safe block strings, d1;d4s and throws? (which you know will work the vast majority of the time, since your opponent has to release block.)

It's a simple, one dimensional, buggy ass game. Can't we admit the truth already?

100% offensive? Play the CD brothers and come back to me on that.

Well, let me rephrase that, certain characters have a turtling mechanic - IE Sub Zero and Smoke. Others have offensive mechanics - IE Johnny Cage. Others have a parry mechanic - Rain, Liu Kang, CSZ and Smoke. Surely you can come up with more examples here.

The point being is, it's character specific, it's not built into the actual mechanics of the game itself. I understand that some feel that it isn't fair to compare MK to other more developed FGs higher standard, but why not? Hell, I'd love to see a counter system in this game, that alone would make the game a lot more interesting; now this is under the assumption that NRS can do an actual counter system properly.

 

[THTB]

100% offensive? Play the CD brothers and come back to me on that.

 

[Chaosphere]

That's a "rock and a hard place" situation. The whole idea is fundamentally flawed and they need to revisit the throw tech from scratch.

Let's say I can tech while blocking, what's to stop me from teching while blocking 100% of the time? There is no risk involved in me doing so. Now throws become obsolete.

Not necessarily. You still have to decide between teching forward throw or normal throw.

 

[Rathalos]

"no, don't deepen my game with tried and true functions from other games even though that's already what the game did".

They can't even seem to get the basics down, adding in more mechanics means more ways they can accidentally fuck the game up even more.

They should keep it nice and simple until they can make a game that works 100% the way you want it 100% of the time, then go from there.

 

[Robotic]

1. These guys are AE players who are entirely used to being able to tech throws while crouch blocking (Yes, I do know about tech traps).

2. Teching while blocking severely hinders throws. Unlike in AE, pressing buttons while blocking does not perform an attack.

3. Technical assessments? Too much buggy shit lol. I love the game, but too much stuff is buggy...like, I clearly hit down and 4. How the hell do I end up with a standing 4?

Regarding your #3. It's cuz you're doing it too fast. Yes, that is stupid, but that is the law i've noticed. Go into practice mode and tap up real fast. The game recognizes you hit up because it shows you in the goddamn inputs, but your character will not jump. That is batshit insane and should be addressed in the future.

 

[randomdps]

They can't even seem to get the basics down, adding in more mechanics means more ways they can accidentally fuck the game up even more.

They should keep it nice and simple until they can make a game that works 100% the way you want it 100% of the time, then go from there.

These are fundamental issues in the conceptual make-up of the game, and they are every bit as important as fixing the fucking-super-retarded-fuck-all that happens when you're holding crouch, proceed to hit "2", and your [ban incoming] ass character does a fucking retarded standing 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!djfklasdjfkl;asjdfahvnxcm,vnaljsdfklasdfjafasd

*breathes*


Yo. Sup.

 

[THTB]

...I should be able to hit down and 4 at the same time and have it register lol.

Also, Chaos, generally people throw in the direction that yields better positioning. If you're not throwing in said direction, you are only hurting yourself.

 

[Robotic]

Not necessarily. You still have to decide between teching forward throw or normal throw.

I'm aware of that. All theory, but here goes: most of the time, it'll be a throw to get you closer to the corner, which will be successfully teched much more often than not making the throws less a part of the game. If you try to throw me OUT of the corner, you deserve the poor positioning you just put yourself in.

Edit: What THTB said. He beat me to the throw, err, punch.

 

[THTB]

I'm aware of that. All theory, but here goes: most of the time, it'll be a throw to get you closer to the corner, which will be successfully teched much more often than not making the throws less a part of the game. If you try to throw me OUT of the corner, you deserve the poor positioning you just put yourself in.

DING DING FUCKING DING!

Thus why teching throws tends to be easier than people believe.

 

[Chaosphere]

I understand that. But it depends on the throw and where it's at. Not all throws are in the corner. If it's a throw at the end of the game, are they going to throw towards the corner? Or towards the middle because you think they're going to throw you in the corner? It's a mind game as well.

Even if you dont throw for the better positioning you are opening them up where they might not hit block if they are put in the same situation again.

 

[CaliJokerstyle]

Positioning is everything in this game. Use Jax and tell me you would ever want to not have someone in the corner.

 

[Robotic]

You're painting a narrow argument with too broad of a brush. Here's what your logic does not take into account:

1.) Throws would still be duck-able, a la Tekken. What's good about this is that it create incentives to duck and/or reversal to end stalemates or yomi loops. This has been happening in Tekken since Tag, and creates great meta games. It works both ways, and deepens the level of thought required to properly play situations out.

2.) Throws in MK9 are all faster than Mad Axes, which isn't exactly the easiest thing to break on reaction when looking for mids and lows as well. Mad Axes was i10 throughout most Tekkens iirc, and is essentially the speed of all T6 jabs. That's not to be snorted at, especially when you consider the fact that throws in MK9 are even faster.

3.) Simply because you could break throws while blocking does not imply that there wouldn't be an input limit upon the break window. I.e., you cannot mash breaks, they have to be deliberate, precise...

"The whole idea is fundamentally flawed and they need to revisit the throw tech from scratch. " That's me. That's you up there revisiting. I think we're good.