Match-up Discussion Supermans Trait trivializes other traits in some match ups

[RWDY Nori]

Its like, playing as Bane vs Superman is a match between an ant and ... superman.

Banes frame data is shit, lets be honest. He lives and dies by his venom. Superman can just say "fuck that" and bam, bane might as well not have a trait.

I'm now convinced you've never played a good Bane. At all. There is so much bad information from this I don't know where to start, and I'm really not trying to be a dick or anything.

-Bane is one of the best pressure chars in the game. Even top players will tell you this. He ONLY loses to chars who can keep him out. That's it. He has so many tick throw setups it would make your head spin

-We just got a massive buff from NRS regarding Venom, so it's not exactly a huge gamble like it was before.

-Superman destroys almost everybody, that's a terrible example

 

[JaredL]

I'm now convinced you've never played a good Bane. At all. There is so much bad information from this I don't know where to start, and I'm really not trying to be a dick or anything.

-Bane is one of the best pressure chars in the game. Even top players will tell you this. He ONLY loses to chars who can keep him out. That's it. He has so many tick throw setups it would make your head spin

-We just got a massive buff from NRS regarding Venom, so it's not exactly a huge gamble like it was before.

-Superman destroys almost everybody, that's a terrible example

And, I only mentioned superman. Or are you not able to read?

 

[RWDY Nori]

And, I only mentioned superman. Or are you not able to read?

I can read great, I was responding to the silly comment of his bad frame data and lack of venom, live and die by it

 

[SWonder916]

I'm now convinced you've never played a good Bane. At all. There is so much bad information from this I don't know where to start, and I'm really not trying to be a dick or anything.

-Bane is one of the best pressure chars in the game. Even top players will tell you this. He ONLY loses to chars who can keep him out. That's it. He has so many tick throw setups it would make your head spin

-We just got a massive buff from NRS regarding Venom, so it's not exactly a huge gamble like it was before.

^^^^^This. I've been seriously challenged by my friend's good Bane. But anyways sure Supes may negate other chars traits but that just makes it a stale mate(trait wise) for a few seconds. Doesn't mean the match is over

 

[JaredL]

I can read great, I was responding to the silly comment of his bad frame data and lack of venom, live and die by it

He does though. He has no fast hiting mids. His fastest lows are slow as balls. His D1 is a low with great reach, but is a slow move.

And yes, he got a massive buff to venom, but when I'm talking about venom being useless... that's kinda not really there as a point.

I really challenge you to win against a top level anyone without using venom and relying solely on banes normals and raw specials.

 

[RWDY Nori]

He does though. He has no fast hiting mids. His fastest lows are slow as balls. His D1 is a low with great reach, but is a slow move.

And yes, he got a massive buff to venom, but when I'm talking about venom being useless... that's kinda not really there as a point.

I really challenge you to win against a top level anyone without using venom and relying solely on banes normals and raw specials.

Ok, I didn't know we were basing matchups off of individual people. I thought this was a serious discussion. You obviously have not read any of his frame data, at all. He can knock you down and bait a wakeup, or keep you down w/frame advantage, which makes the other moves faster. You can't see the difference between D1 to Double Punch vs D1 to command grab on reaction. And that's just one. Might want to actually take your time and browse the bane forums, or seek out a good bane player cause you really don't seem to know the char and I know Superman and Bane both very well.

And what retard would play a match w/out ever using their trait? Of course his trait helps him but the cooldown is so much lower now it opens up his offense much more.

 

[dribirut]

Lol deal with it crybabies he's not getting nerfed again. And all the characters u said besides dd are already shitty

 

[JaredL]

Ok, I didn't know we were basing matchups off of individual people. I thought this was a serious discussion. You obviously have not read any of his frame data, at all. He can knock you down and bait a wakeup, or keep you down w/frame advantage, which makes the other moves faster. You can't see the difference between D1 to Double Punch vs D1 to command grab on reaction. And that's just one. Might want to actually take your time and browse the bane forums, or seek out a good bane player cause you really don't seem to know the char and I know Superman and Bane both very well.

And what retard would play a match w/out ever using their trait? Of course his trait helps him but the cooldown is so much lower now it opens up his offense much more.

Why are you, coming into a thread, specifically about someones trait making someone elses trait useless and then saying "And what retard would play a match w/out ever using their trait? Of course his trait helps him but the cooldown is so much lower now it opens up his offense much more."

Its like you have no clue how to read. I'm talking about fucking superman, about superman shutting down bane.

Supermans F23 is faster than anything Banes normals can do. And when dealing with that, you'd think you could rely on armor, but you can't.

 

[RWDY Nori]

You are going all over the place so I'm just trying to keep up w/you. Superman's F23 is not an infinite, it's a really great string but it ends eventually. You might want to do more research on how to stop it instead of whining about how Superman (who is practically a god in the DC universe yet you're surprised how good he is in the game)'s trait is so great. Yes, it is, but it runs out as well.

Does anybody play defense anymore?

 

[JaredL]

You are going all over the place so I'm just trying to keep up w/you. Superman's F23 is not an infinite, it's a really great string but it ends eventually. You might want to do more research on how to stop it instead of whining about how Superman (who is practically a god in the DC universe yet you're surprised how good he is in the game)'s trait is so great. Yes, it is, but it runs out as well.

Does anybody play defense anymore?

I'm not talking about it being a block infinite, I'm saying that its literally faster than every single move in banes armory.

 

[RWDY Nori]

I'm not talking about it being a block infinite, I'm saying that its literally faster than every single move in banes armory.

Ok, let's say the Superman does the trait like an idiot just to do it (not sure why they would w/out starting a combo first). If he goes low and I block it he dies so let's assume he continues the F23 pressure. I have pushblock. I have a backdash. I can also let the breath hit me for very minimum damage and it resets us which is what I want. If he goes for breath MB, now I can finally get in and do what Bane does best, max pressure up close that EVERY char has a hard time dealing w/.

My overall point of this tale: His trait is great but it's supposed to be. He is superman, he is the best in the DC universe by a landslide his trait, moves, everything is supposed to be far superior to anything anybody else has. If anybody is SUPPOSED to be s+ tier, it's supposed to be superman.

I guess I'm just not understanding what your gripe is?

 

[Asodimazze]

I agree, his trait is really broken in some matchups, but other characters have ridicolous traits too so I dont think it should get nerfed.

Get real guys, NRS is not capable of balancing this game, and probably doesn't really care too.
I suggest everyone who doesnt main a s-tier to pick up superman and have some fun...why stick yourself with inferior chars?
I main Grundy, but since I started using superman as a secondary I am noticing that ALL the problems I had vanished lol.

Join the club!

 

[Solid]

This JaredL guy just keeps on making threads crying about stuff. Isn't that a Black Adam avatar you got? Please stop trying to be a hero to all characters, especially not knowing everything about them. Your own character is messed up. That is a good thing. Everybody should keep their dirt, and the weaker ones should get some more dirt. Stop crying and coming in the Superman threads to post things that would only hurt the character. You are NOT helping or contributing with anything that is useful for the game and it's players. Please go cry elsewhere. I'm really tired of guys like you that just nag at everything. If it's not the +1, it's the trait, then the lazers, then the damage, then the air dash. Please just stop. You want his trait nerfed? Write a damn letter to NRS explaining your points on why he should be nerfed etc. I wish I was MOD so I could close down all these pointless threads.

 

[haketh]

My overall point of this tale: His trait is great but it's supposed to be. He is superman, he is the best in the DC universe by a landslide his trait, moves, everything is supposed to be far superior to anything anybody else has. If anybody is SUPPOSED to be s+ tier, it's supposed to be superman.

I guess I'm just not understanding what your gripe is?

Holy fuck this is the dumbest shit I've seen in a minute. By this logic Dorm should auto win all fights in UMVC3, Akuma should instantly shit on everyone in SF, basing how strong a character should be in a competetive fighting game then being okay with it is well, idiotic. It's not good design and shouldn't just be okayed.

And like you said Bane loses to people who can keep him out, Supes is one of those. Yeah the dash buff is great but you have ot be on point or you're gonna catch a F2,3, Bane's frame data being shit leads to him having a really hard time dealing with F2,3, Venom is almost always a suicide option in this matchup even with the Venom buff. And yeah Supes trait runs out, then comes back pretty quick and he's left with no negatives, unlike Bane.

 

[JaredL]

Ok, let's say the Superman does the trait like an idiot just to do it (not sure why they would w/out starting a combo first). If he goes low and I block it he dies so let's assume he continues the F23 pressure. I have pushblock. I have a backdash. I can also let the breath hit me for very minimum damage and it resets us which is what I want. If he goes for breath MB, now I can finally get in and do what Bane does best, max pressure up close that EVERY char has a hard time dealing w/.

My overall point of this tale: His trait is great but it's supposed to be. He is superman, he is the best in the DC universe by a landslide his trait, moves, everything is supposed to be far superior to anything anybody else has. If anybody is SUPPOSED to be s+ tier, it's supposed to be superman.

I guess I'm just not understanding what your gripe is?

No, you're not. You're happy that this matchup is heavily in supermans favour, and you are free to hold that opinion.

I am of the opinion, that banes entire playstyle, vs 95% of the cast, should not be completely shut down by a single trait in the way supermans does. But, if you like constantly losing to him, then, by all means continue to do so.

And honestly, F23 is -2 on block, that means you can't even poke out of it if he doesn't use breath.

I'll be very clear. Supermans frame data and normals are miles ahead of banes. Superman also can stop banes trait armor very easily, without any negative consequences on a short cooldown.

Superman can very easily play super defensive and zone Bane out, and due to Banes floaty as fuck jump, superman can simply walk backwards, and F23, which advances quite a way, and catch an unsafe dash, or a wiffed jump in.

If you think that match up being that unfair is fine, great. Its your right. I don't and I'm here saying it.

 

[JaredL]

This JaredL guy just keeps on making threads crying about stuff. Isn't that a Black Adam avatar you got? Please stop trying to be a hero to all characters, especially not knowing everything about them. Your own character is messed up. That is a good thing. Everybody should keep their dirt, and the weaker ones should get some more dirt. Stop crying and coming in the Superman threads to post things that would only hurt the character. You are NOT helping or contributing with anything that is useful for the game and it's players. Please go cry elsewhere. I'm really tired of guys like you that just nag at everything. If it's not the +1, it's the trait, then the lazers, then the damage, then the air dash. Please just stop. You want his trait nerfed? Write a damn letter to NRS explaining your points on why he should be nerfed etc. I wish I was MOD so I could close down all these pointless threads.

What other threads did I make crying about stuff?

And I have a black adam avatar, I also had a raven one, and one of ed boon and I had one of atrocitus. Does that mean I played them as well? Or are you getting ahead of yourself and presuming too much?

 

[RWDY Nori]

Holy fuck this is the dumbest shit I've seen in a minute. By this logic Dorm should auto win all fights in UMVC3, Akuma should instantly shit on everyone in SF, basing how strong a character should be in a competetive fighting game then being okay with it is well, idiotic. It's not good design and shouldn't just be okayed.

And like you said Bane loses to people who can keep him out, Supes is one of those. Yeah the dash buff is great but you have ot be on point or you're gonna catch a F2,3, Bane's frame data being shit leads to him having a really hard time dealing with F2,3, Venom is almost always a suicide option in this matchup even with the Venom buff. And yeah Supes trait runs out, then comes back pretty quick and he's left with no negatives, unlike Bane.

His trait is very good and it should be. I didn't say anything about him auto winning or instantly killing everybody. He's not even close to broken. What on gods earth are you talking about? I said people shouldn't be surprised he has the best trait and best strings. Doesn't make him invincible. Play the game more, complain less.

Another guy saying his frame data is shit w/out understanding the char, fantastic.

JaredL Do you main Bane? Cause based on what you are saying you don't really seem to understand the machup. You're entitled to your opinion, np. I don't lose most matches to Superman so I don't know where that assumption came from. I know a horrible matchup when I see one and you're making it out to be 9-1 when it's really 6-4 Superman.

 

[JaredL]

His trait is very good and it should be. I didn't say anything about him auto winning or instantly killing everybody. He's not even close to broken. What on gods earth are you talking about? I said people shouldn't be surprised he has the best trait and best strings. Doesn't make him invincible. Play the game more, complain less.

Another guy saying his frame data is shit w/out understanding the char, fantastic.

JaredL Do you main Bane? Cause based on what you are saying you don't really seem to understand the machup. You're entitled to your opinion, np. I don't lose most matches to Superman so I don't know where that assumption came from. I know a horrible matchup when I see one and you're making it out to be 9-1 when it's really 6-4 Superman.

I don't really main anyone, I use many people, and honestly, you must be playing really bad supermen because you can't grasp a very fundamental thing.

You tell me this

"Another guy saying his frame data is shit w/out understanding the char"

What more is there to Bane, if not his frame data, if you exclude his venom, which superman excludes pretty fucking easily?

I really want you to tell me what your strategies and ways of approaching the matchup are, because superman holds all the cards, and you say its 6-4 to him, well, how do you get past his superior frame data, with your inferior frame data and your limited use of venom?

 

[xQUANTUMx]

Sigh......at least Charlie is objective about this shit...or maybe I'm just tired of reading super man this and that now that deathstroke got nerfed. For the record I got combo'd into banes' super with venom for 67% mid screen. Supes doesn't do that. He can only do that in the corner and that's if he can keep you there.


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[JaredL]

Sigh......at least Charlie is objective about this shit...or maybe I'm just tired of reading super man this and that now that deathstroke got nerfed. For the record I got combo'd into banes' super with venom for 67% mid screen. Supes doesn't do that. He can only do that in the corner and that's if he can keep you there.


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To be honest, if you're a superman player, and you let Bane in, you deserve that 67%.

Speaking of superman super and bane... anyone remember him doing 81% or something to someone when he was debuffed from a full screen laser? Shit was whack.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

To be honest, if you're a superman player, and you let Bane in, you deserve that 67%.

Speaking of superman super and bane... anyone remember him doing 81% or something to someone when he was debuffed from a full screen laser? Shit was whack.

For the record I didn't see it coming and I thought I could take it and save meter for clash, didn't know he would super. And you are totally right, I did deserve it. This isn't a pick at you, I'm just getting tired of reading all the "nerf superman" threads I'm reading lately. And it's not like I've never mained a low tier character before. I previously mained a char that was easily top5 that dropped to bottom 10 within a span of two years of nerfing and buffing. I just find it sad and funny that black Adam is creeping by, untouched. I feel he will be the kabal of injustice...


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[JaredL]

For the record I didn't see it coming and I thought I could take it and save meter for clash, didn't know he would super. And you are totally right, I did deserve it. This isn't a pick at you, I'm just getting tired of reading all the "nerf superman" threads I'm reading lately. And it's not like I've never mained a low tier character before. I previously mained a char that was easily top5 that dropped to bottom 10 within a span of two years of nerfing and buffing. I just find it sad and funny that black Adam is creeping by, untouched. I feel he will be the kabal of injustice...


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If you read the suggestion I made, this change would not affect anything with Batman, with Aquaman or anyone else apart from Doomsday, Lex and Bane. I don't believe those matchups would suddenly swing in favour of doomsday, lex or bane, and will still be superman in favour, just less unfairly so.

 

[RWDY Nori]

JaredL His frame data is not shit. Have you seen the advantage he has on moves on block? The way you make it sound, Bane presses start and dies. You CAN'T be that ignorant, come on. It's called reading the player. Do you think Superman is known for his amazing defense? I PLAY Superman dude. You know one of his biggest problems? Getting people off of him. If get in D1 range, which is not hard to do, I'm now at +10 on block, +17 on hit. WTF is going to do now? If he tries to hit me w/F2, 3 he will not beat my B2, 3 into possibly 60% like xQUANTUMx mentioned above.

Yes, it's a hard matchup that requires patience of his mindless F2, 3 bullrushing. He can do F2, 3 or F2, 3 breath or F2, 3 MB Breath and it's all a guessing game. If I get hit, I get hit that's fighting games. And Venom is used in combos w/smart Bane players so I'll still use it.

If he wants to spam lasers from across the screen, I will block and dash my way in. He's not at frame adv on his lasers, quite the opposite actually so it's not exactly the best strategy. Or, I can use venom and charge it (he has no time to turn on trait by the time he lands).

Like I said, I don't think you fully understand either char and that's why you are confused. You admitted you don't main one person so now I understand why you don't get this matchup and are making way too many assumptions

 

[xQUANTUMx]

If you read the suggestion I made, this change would not affect anything with Batman, with Aquaman or anyone else apart from Doomsday, Lex and Bane. I don't believe those matchups would suddenly swing in favour of doomsday, lex or bane, and will still be superman in favour, just less unfairly so.

True enough. I think doomsday would be much tougher, maybe not so for lex and bane. Although I think lex is a much more set up heavy character than bane but I say that loosely as I've played lex more than bane and am probably speaking out of ignorance there


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[JaredL]

JaredL His frame data is not shit. Have you seen the advantage he has on moves on block? The way you make it sound, Bane presses start and dies. You CAN'T be that ignorant, come on. It's called reading the player. Do you think Superman is known for his amazing defense? I PLAY Superman dude. You know one of his biggest problems? Getting people off of him. If get in D1 range, which is not hard to do, I'm now at +10 on block, +17 on hit. WTF is going to do now? If he tries to hit me w/F2, 3 he will not beat my B2, 3 into possibly 60% like xQUANTUMx mentioned above.

Yes, it's a hard matchup that requires patience of his mindless F2, 3 bullrushing. He can do F2, 3 or F2, 3 breath or F2, 3 MB Breath and it's all a guessing game. If I get hit, I get hit that's fighting games. And Venom is used in combos w/smart Bane players so I'll still use it.

If he wants to spam lasers from across the screen, I will block and dash my way in. He's not at frame adv on his lasers, quite the opposite actually so it's not exactly the best strategy. Or, I can use venom and charge it (he has no time to turn on trait by the time he lands).

Like I said, I don't think you fully understand either char and that's why you are confused. You admitted you don't main one person so now I understand why you don't get this matchup and are making way too many assumptions

Being + on block doesn't mean much, when you have nothing faster than supermans safe, mid launching combo.

And why the fuck would F23 not beat B23? B23 has 18 starup frames. Supermans F23 is over twice as fast.

And venom and charge in? He can meterburn his air lasers or his ground laser to hit twice and you're out of that.