Suggested feature for the net code in MK11.

[Scoot Magee]

Games with ggpo net code have consistently had a feature that let's you toggle the amount of input lag you experience in online matches. I think this is an important feature that shouldn't be overlooked.

Based on my experience in the beta, the input lag seems to automatically set depending on the ping. The higher the ping, the higher the input lag. I really never saw any rollback at all when playing in the beta but the input lag at times felt quite high. This is still obviously leaps and bounds above the old net code in nrs games

Lag is lag and theres no way to avoid it. Still, imo I would prefer to deal with some rollback over delay. This would mostly be to keep timing consistent between offline and online play. If they included an input lag toggle option in online options it would give players a choice to play how they prefer. The setting can default to the games current setting so that those happy with the way it is now dont have to touch anything.

 

[Marinjuana]

I'm not sure it's simple for them to do something like that. if you are interested in that sort of thing, they did have their lead engineer on the netcode do a GDC talk about it a couple weeks back. It was about an hour long but he gave a detailed and thorough breakdown of their changes to the netcode, going frame by frame and discussing design decisions. Should be on youtube.

There is also a setting for simulating online input delay offline, or at least there was one in MKX and Injustice 2. I'm not sure if it supposed to be simulating the minimum amount of delay that's possible online or what but it's a nice way to get used to the timing.

 

[Scoot Magee]

After watching the long presentation on the netcode, delay seems to be fixed at 3 or 4 frames regardless of the ping in order to hide rollback. Imo this hurts lower ping matches a lot. I think they should give players the option as ggpo does in many other games. Have it default at what it's set to now but in online options let us reduce the number of input lag frames to our preference.

In it's current state there are too many frames of lag in low ping matches. I hope nrs would consider this. It will make good connections play better.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I know there are a lot of other issues people are concerned with, wifi filters and etc. I just think there should be a focus on improving good connections as well.

 

[SaltShaker]

After watching the long presentation on the netcode, delay seems to be fixed at 3 or 4 frames regardless of the ping in order to hide rollback. Imo this hurts lower ping matches a lot. I think they should give players the option as ggpo does in many other games. Have it default at what it's set to now but in online options let us reduce the number of input lag frames to our preference.

In it's current state there are too many frames of lag in low ping matches. I hope nrs would consider this. It will make good connections play better.

I agree. Some matches even in the best of connections can feel you almost have to be pre-emptive when you follow up a blocked poke with a poke. If someone does a poke and is -5 on block, when I do D1 or a mid I should hit 10/10 times. Sometimes I end up being hit because of the delay and they mashed out a follow up.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I agree. Some matches even in the best of connections can feel you almost have to be pre-emptive when you follow up a blocked poke with a poke. If someone does a poke and is -5 on block, when I do D1 or a mid I should hit 10/10 times. Sometimes I end up being hit because of the delay and they mashed out a follow up.

I feel terrible when I throw out a spear and it hits 3/4 to full screen away when the other player wasnt even doing anything lol. Theres a lot of stuff like this.

 

[SaltShaker]

I feel terrible when I throw out a spear and it hits 3/4 to full screen away when the other player wasnt even doing anything lol. Theres a lot of stuff like this.

I swear when that happens sometimes I look at the block button on my controller like "didn't I just hold block?" LOL.

 

[MerlinsBeard]

What other games let you choose the delay, the only one I know of is the SF anniversary collection?

 

[Scoot Magee]

What other games let you choose the delay, the only one I know of is the SF anniversary collection?

Theres a ton of games on 360 and other platfirms. Skullgirls, punch planet, the marvel and darkstalkers collections, st HD remix, mvc2, street fighter 30th and I believe theres more.

 

[Scoot Magee]

If you guys want the online yo be as close to offline as possible, this is the best way.

 

[DDustiNN]

I feel terrible when I throw out a spear and it hits 3/4 to full screen away when the other player wasnt even doing anything lol. Theres a lot of stuff like this.

This drives me crazy, when I know I hit block.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

If they included an input lag toggle option in online options it would give players a choice to play how they prefer. The setting can default to the games current setting so that those happy with the way it is now dont have to touch anything.

I know they have an offline 3f delay option but I don't think Rollback works like that. First of all you would have 2 opponents that could select 2 separate delays and I don't think that is possible. Roll back keeps both players at 3f static lag and supports 10f (7+3f lag) all together. It rolls back to the first frame and recreates what happened.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I know they have an offline 3f delay option but I don't think Rollback works like that. First of all you would have 2 opponents that could select 2 separate delays and I don't think that is possible. Roll back keeps both players at 3f static lag and supports 10f (7+3f lag) all together. It rolls back to the first frame and recreates what happened.

It does work like that, though. Theres other games that exist and do exactly what I'm saying. It has no affect on whatever the other player is set to and it works great.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

It does work like that, though. Theres other games that exist and do exactly what I'm saying. It has no affect on whatever the other player is set to and it works great.

Well there are different builds of Rollback and I'm sure it would take them a very long time to revamp the Netcode from the ground up.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Well there are different builds of Rollback and I'm sure it would take them a very long time to revamp the Netcode from the ground up.

What makes you think they would have to revamp it from the ground up?

 

[Scoot Magee]

Well there are different builds of Rollback and I'm sure it would take them a very long time to revamp the Netcode from the ground up.

Also why not throw your support behind this?

I'm almost positive they can simply give us the option. In the rollback beta for mkx the original setting was 0 frames of lag.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

What makes you think they would have to revamp it from the ground up?

The lead in NRS for the netcode:

Both players are currently at the same tick rate and sync time so if they changed it to allow both players to have differing preferred delay it would require a rebuild. They have it built around 3f static for both players. The whole netcode is built around this.
Your idea is very cool I just don't know how they would do it with all the stuff they still have to roll out.

 

[Scoot Magee]

The lead in NRS for the netcode:

Please quote where they mention they'd have to revamp the netcode in order to let us reduce frame delay.

In rollback netcode games you simply reduce frame lag but see more visual rollback and vice versa. I dont see why this would be any different in nrs rollback. I've watched the presentation before and from what I remember they just mention the set lag as being there to reduce rollback.

What the other player has their lag set to doesnt matter. It just rolls back as opposed to delay input. The information all still travels at the same rate to the same places.

 

[Enexemander]

That GDC talk is flat out the reason I bought the game. I was impressed that they were taking online so seriously and working out past issues.
I play online only and with the 3 frames online option in single player as well, so it's not jarring going from one to the other.
That said, there are definitely circumstances (especially in wifi) where the lag goes beyond 3 frames and things get screwy really, really fast.

 

[MerlinsBeard]

Theres a ton of games on 360 and other platfirms. Skullgirls, punch planet, the marvel and darkstalkers collections, st HD remix, mvc2, street fighter 30th and I believe theres more.

Oh, the only one of those I played was MvC2 on 360 and I never really messed with the settings. Do you know if SF5 has input delay, I get tons of rollback in that game and it doesn't have this option either.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Oh, the only one of those I played was MvC2 on 360 and I never really messed with the settings. Do you know if SF5 has input delay, I get tons of rollback in that game and it doesn't have this option either.

Sfv doesnt let you toggle input lag.

 

[Gaxkang]

I agree. Some matches even in the best of connections can feel you almost have to be pre-emptive when you follow up a blocked poke with a poke. If someone does a poke and is -5 on block, when I do D1 or a mid I should hit 10/10 times. Sometimes I end up being hit because of the delay and they mashed out a follow up.

Yeah that kinda stuff just puts a fork in the online really...because those interactions are central to the majority of the close fighting in the game.

It's too big to fail...but it fails.