Match-Up Discussion - Sub-Zero Sub Zero Match Up Discussion

[Rickyraws]

This is the place to discuss match ups Sub Zero has with the entire cast. Upon discussing match ups, be mindful of the variations both at Sub Zero's disposal as well as the opponent's.


I haven't had as much time to play the game due to crashes and controller issues plaguing the free time I DID have. And so I've played very few different matchups, with even fewer ideas of how certain match ups would even play outside of in my head.


Please document your experiences thus far.

 

[flawless]

I had trouble getting past grandmaster with piercing. Won the first match, brutality, awesome. He/she adjusted and i couldnt get inside. Didnt know i could break the ice clone with projectiles or just armor through it in the corners. D3 trapped me a couple times too.

Back to the lab i guess

 

[Kilz88]

Anyone fought a good Full Auto Jaqui yet with Grandmaster. It is pretty tough. She can spam machine gun and you have to neutral crouch under them in order to not be pushed back and take chip. Then once they have a meter they can spend it to send the rockets behind and if you werent blocking, since you were neutral crouching, you get blasted back to full screen. You cant jump over the machine gun either due to how long it lasts and/or anti air rockets. Once you get into slide range she has low rocket which pops you up into machine gun again and you are back to the beginning. Now if you make the right read once you are in slide range then great, but nearly all her bnbs can end in machine gun again and you have to do all the work again. For me personally it felt extremely difficult to deal with, much worse than early Deathstroke in IGAU. Any advice other than play a teleport character? I really don't think unbreakable is the answer either...

 

[Hivey]

ive found it insanely difficult to deal with characters with a teleport. also, ermac is the bane of my existence. same as mk9.

 

[Notez4]

Excuse the Subby, Its my day 1. Kangs Pressure seems ridiculous. wondering If theres a way to deal with it other than back dashing. and oh god those low fire balls.

 

[YOMI DJT]

Excuse the Subby, Its my day 1. Kangs Pressure seems ridiculous. wondering If theres a way to deal with it other than back dashing. and oh god those low fire balls.

For low fireballs jump on reaction or just block and slowly corner lui. During the chase down, lui players like to use that b2 overhead when you get in footsie range aka jump in distance so watch out for that when getting in. You can always neutral duck luis bicycle kick when he does it in pressure and it will whiff over you. Then you can punish however you like. I know it was day 1 but don't use a lot of ex slide mid screen because you want to corner your opponent and not give them a chance to get out.

When Luis kang is pressuring he wants to abuse his d3 because it is plus on block and its 11f I believe. After that he wants to go for his f4 which is a low starting string. That string ends -1 so you can counter poke with d3 or d4. You can also try counterpoking with standing since is 6f. Armor is always an option but don't over do it. Also that punch string he was doing, I think it was f2 something. I think you can Counterpoke after that too. But really look into kangs frames. Don't forget when kang has no meter you can be very aggressive don't back up and do ice clone.

 

[YOMI DJT]

Anyone fought a good Full Auto Jaqui yet with Grandmaster. It is pretty tough. She can spam machine gun and you have to neutral crouch under them in order to not be pushed back and take chip. Then once they have a meter they can spend it to send the rockets behind and if you werent blocking, since you were neutral crouching, you get blasted back to full screen. You cant jump over the machine gun either due to how long it lasts and/or anti air rockets. Once you get into slide range she has low rocket which pops you up into machine gun again and you are back to the beginning. Now if you make the right read once you are in slide range then great, but nearly all her bnbs can end in machine gun again and you have to do all the work again. For me personally it felt extremely difficult to deal with, much worse than early Deathstroke in IGAU. Any advice other than play a teleport character? I really don't think unbreakable is the answer either...

I haven't played this matchup a lot but lots of patience is probably key. Doing ice clone from far range is probably completely useless. You have to try and jump low rocket on reaction if you can. I know some Jacqui players like to throw out her overhead once you get within footsie range. So watch out for that because I think it is punishable. She does have some strong zoning in this variation and you need lots of experience to really get use to it. Have you played it a lot ? I can't give you a lot because there are so many matchups I haven't dug into yet

 

[YOMI DJT]

I had trouble getting past grandmaster with piercing. Won the first match, brutality, awesome. He/she adjusted and i couldnt get inside. Didnt know i could break the ice clone with projectiles or just armor through it in the corners. D3 trapped me a couple times too.

Back to the lab i guess

As a mileena player you must be patient and react to the things sub zero does. It will definitely be a lame matchup because both chars can react to each other throwing projectiles. You must compete for space vs sub zero. Do not keep walking back and cornering yourself. Its not easy for either char. But Mileena does get a full combo punish on sub's b2 on block every time with roll.

 

[YOMI DJT]

ive found it insanely difficult to deal with characters with a teleport. also, ermac is the bane of my existence. same as mk9.

Yeah teleport chars you have to be super patient and not throw out a lot of ice balls and careful with your clone placement if you are using that variation. What specifically gives you trouble against tele chars?

 

[Hivey]

i just cant pin them down. they usually get the first hit on me, or escape me when i hit them. after that, its pretty much game over. i cant counter them because they teleport right after i block a hit, and characters like ermac seem to recover to quickly for me to punish the teleport. ermac specifically tends to either teleport when i go to attack, or just backs up and does the mind grab thing.

it used to be, in mk9, that i could put out my clone then quickly dash infront of it so they cant teleport behind me. that worked decently, except for against ermac. he was my nemesis back then. still is. the clone trick doesnt seem to work at all now either.

 

[flawless]

As a mileena player you must be patient and react to the things sub zero does. It will definitely be a lame matchup because both chars can react to each other throwing projectiles. You must compete for space vs sub zero. Do not keep walking back and cornering yourself. Its not easy for either char. But Mileena does get a full combo punish on sub's b2 on block every time with roll.

Yeah, i rush in and apply pressure, try to overwhelm. I tend to wakeup with roll without necessarily wanting too aswell, my fingers just do the input. They pick up on that pretty quick. I like the way she plays though. I can get 30 to 40% out of her when i land some bnb. Trying to figure out a semisafe way of using her f343/f344.

maybe i should look up this thing you call patience

 

[DeathTouch]

i just cant pin them down. they usually get the first hit on me, or escape me when i hit them. after that, its pretty much game over. i cant counter them because they teleport right after i block a hit, and characters like ermac seem to recover to quickly for me to punish the teleport. ermac specifically tends to either teleport when i go to attack, or just backs up and does the mind grab thing.

it used to be, in mk9, that i could put out my clone then quickly dash infront of it so they cant teleport behind me. that worked decently, except for against ermac. he was my nemesis back then. still is. the clone trick doesnt seem to work at all now either.

Just have to be more patient and bey on point with your punishes when Ermac teleports or u block a string from him. Also Frame Data is good to know

 

[YOMI DJT]

Yeah, i rush in and apply pressure, try to overwhelm. I tend to wakeup with roll without necessarily wanting too aswell, my fingers just do the input. They pick up on that pretty quick. I like the way she plays though. I can get 30 to 40% out of her when i land some bnb. Trying to figure out a semisafe way of using her f343/f344.

maybe i should look up this thing you call patience

Yes the more patient player and the one that makes the better reads wins this matchup. Also don't forget to practice punishing subs b2 overhead with roll. Full combo every time if you get it down. The only way he can make b2 safe vs mileena is having you in the corner with clone in front of you.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Does anyone know the priority on the ice smash and ex Ice Smash ?

I'm pretty sure the hitbox on this move is absurd, and wanted to know if/how much you actually get hit by jump attacks when using it to defend against jump in/cross ups.

I have thoughts on why I think Cryomancer could be just as deadly as Grandmaster against teleport characters. I think this move is the key to punishing people who use jump mixups on teleports.

 

[Rickyraws]

Here are various videos to visually show how the MU may play out. I implore you guys to do the same so that the videos can act as a catalyst for further discussion.


GGA Dizzy vs CORN Detroit Ballin
Sub Zero vs Johnny Cage

GGA Jeremiah vs CORN Detroit Ballin
Sub Zero vs Cassie cage

Cat vs Fourwude
Sub Zero vs a Shirai Ryu dog.

 

[Absinthesize]

how about subzero matchups without grandmaster?

im starting to feel like this is turning into the grandmaster forum and we need another for the other two >.>