Match-up Discussion - Flame Fists Scrub Zero

[topperdd]

I need MAD help against this MU. I can't figure shit out.

The only thing I try to do is to play patient, try to duck his fireball with my low fireball and destroy his ice clone so i can jump over the next fireball and jump in punish.

any help would be appreciated...

 

[getoverhere--->]

Sub zero has a fireball now? wow

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

do you have any armored advancing moves? is his dragon kick armored?

 

[kaseyk]

You out zone sub and you can stuff his wake-up easy so hes free to pressure on kd.
Ice ball does no chip so make him come to you .

Never jump at a gm sub you give him a free combo.
its common for sub to poke and cross up so just run out and create space when they attempt the cross up because you have no other option but block .

His corner game is dangerous but so is yours .

I feel this mu is in lk's favor now that FF got the buff .

 

[Derptile]

If you're playing against grandmaster sub then this MU is in your favor. You're have to play super lame and just chuck fireballs all day, IAFBs along with low fireballs are your best friend. The SZ player will become impatient and attempt to get in and from there you'll have the advantage due to your normals being so strong as well as frame traps with ex Shaolin fists.

Too bad most SZ players are retards and won't learn other variations because Unbreakable does very well against all of Liu's variations.

 

[AssassiN]

Like the players above you have said, play the lame game.
Know when you can use your fireballs, meaning that any projectiles(regular freeze or thrown clone) won't trade or Sub can use EX ice ball to punish you.

Essentially Sub has to come to you, you have to keep him out and avoid getting trapped in the corner.
Please avoid using iAFB's, the recovery on it is so long and Sub can just slide under them anyways.
Stick to low fireballs and Flying Kick to AA. Keep the range of his EX slide in mind.

This MU is in Liu's favor in DF and FF(cannot speak for Dualist).
Getting trapped in the corner against him is a bitch, but Liu's D3 won't get frozen by clone. Use that on block if Sub is in the clone and the clone will disappear + you're at +1.
Use EX Flying Kick to get out or punish unsafe clone cancels.

 

[Derptile]

Like the players above you have said, play the lame game.
Know when you can use your fireballs, meaning that any projectiles(regular freeze or thrown clone) won't trade or Sub can use EX ice ball to punish you.

Essentially Sub has to come to you, you have to keep him out and avoid getting trapped in the corner.
Please avoid using iAFB's, the recovery on it is so long and Sub can just slide under them anyways.
Stick to low fireballs and Flying Kick to AA. Keep the range of his EX slide in mind.

This MU is in Liu's favor in DF and FF(cannot speak for Dualist).
Getting trapped in the corner against him is a bitch, but Liu's D3 won't get frozen by clone. Use that on block if Sub is in the clone and the clone will disappear + you're at +1.
Use EX Flying Kick to get out or punish unsafe clone cancels.

IAFBs have long recovery? There's a big difference betweven air fireball and instant air fireball lol you can do them much faster compared to DF and FF's normal fireball , but I do agree that low fireballs are better than the rest.

Also I didn't know that d3 beat the clone, will keep that in mind.

 

[LaidbackOne]

Just turtle. You don't need to do anything else to win this mu.

 

[kaseyk]

IAFBs have long recovery? There's a big difference betweven air fireball and instant air fireball lol you can do them much faster compared to DF and FF's normal fireball , but I do agree that low fireballs are better than the rest.

Also I didn't know that d3 beat the clone, will keep that in mind.

Try a iafb outside of combo it does have a long recovery .
but they still have a use in the mu like stopping jumps or combo extension

 

[Derptile]

Try a iafb outside of combo it does have a long recovery .
but they still have a use in the mu like stopping jumps or combo extension

With Flame fist if you get a perfect IAFB and hit them you can run from full screen and combo them, that was the main purpose I had in mentioning it. Like you destroy their clone with a normal/low fireball, and then go for IAFB and catch them on the startup of an iceball or something.

 

[kaseyk]

With Flame fist if you get a perfect IAFB and hit them you can run from full screen and combo them, that was the main purpose I had in mentioning it. Like you destroy their clone with a normal/low fireball, and then go for IAFB and catch them on the startup of an iceball or something.

Only after you land a low fb can that be done which is the reason it never happens in match . It works in df aswell .
For some reason game treats the iafb recovery as if it were in combo in that situation .
My guess is the time you shoot the iafb is very close to the time the low fb hits tricking the system into giving you mid combo recovery

Test it by hitting a jumping opponent at just inside jump distance and run in combo then do a ji3-air fb run in combo on a grounded opponent ( similar height and distance ) you will see the recovery difference and or feel it immediately .

 

[red team gone]

I'll echo everything said above.... I'm not that great, and sz used to be an annoyance, but now I just spam low fb, and react to them rushing in. Scrub sz players will rely on the slide to gain footing, and low fb shuts that down before it starts. Good sz players will run in to get close when they have the opportunity, and thats where you want them. Be prepared to switch it up with zoning. I usually mix low fb, and dragon kick (dk when they try to jump over), ex dragon kick goes right through clone.

Zone zone zone. You may not get many rematches, but you'll win the MU.

 

[SLH7671]

IAFBs have long recovery? There's a big difference betweven air fireball and instant air fireball lol you can do them much faster compared to DF and FF's normal fireball , but I do agree that low fireballs are better than the rest.

Also I didn't know that d3 beat the clone, will keep that in mind.

Search for Tom Bradys videos on talking about how ice clone needs to be fixed, will show you every little aspect that can get around it.

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

IAFBs have long recovery? There's a big difference betweven air fireball and instant air fireball lol you can do them much faster compared to DF and FF's normal fireball , but I do agree that low fireballs are better than the rest.

Also I didn't know that d3 beat the clone, will keep that in mind.

if your in the corner and d3 the clone ur gna get frozen . i made that mistake vs madzin a lot. and liu in the corner vs liu is annoying as heck and ex slide wake up is difficult to beat like kl spin. once sub has mid distance and gets clone out its not like u can just fireball everytime to beat the clone as the sub will punish you. ex clone toss does a lot of damage too and he can slowly work u to the corner if his space game is good. i thought liu beats sub and never had an issue. but when played madzin it made me re think a bit. maybe liu does still win but its not a rollover mu by any means

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

I'm beginning to think the name "scrub zero" derives from the scrubs that SZ routinely destroys because they never bother to go to the lab