Scorpion Sucks, Scorpion Rules - Lets Complain Here

[Cburnham81]

http://www.justin.tv/slipkicks/b/289220625 (names are switched in the beginning) Slips vs. Mr. K

[URL="http://www.justin.tv/slipkicks/b/289224581"]http://www.justin.tv/slipkicks/b/28922458[/URL] Slips vs. Killshot/Jody Tha Great


This is tournament videos of Slips Scorpion taking from the "Scorpion Tournament video thread". IMO this is how scorpion should be played, and if done so...he's one hell of a character


Edit: I screwed up the links somehow...but I think they work now!!

 

[Wrathchild]

First of all...your poll is based off your bias therefore I won't vote.

Second, read the comments from people like Vilen. They provide very strong arguements as to why Scorpion is a good character. OP you have yet to provide a solid counter-arguement.

So please stop scorpion hate he's fine how he is.

If this sounds mean it's not my intention.

 

[Kwon]

http://www.justin.tv/slipkicks/b/289220625 (names are switched in the beginning) Slips vs. Mr. K

http://www.justin.tv/slipkicks/b/289224581 Slips vs. Killshot/Jody Tha Great

Thanks Burnham!

Good to see Slips Scorpion-play!

 

[OtherworldOdd]

http://www.justin.tv/slipkicks/b/289220625 (names are switched in the beginning) Slips vs. Mr. K

http://www.justin.tv/slipkicks/b/289224581 Slips vs. Killshot/Jody Tha Great


This is tournament videos of Slips Scorpion taking from the "Scorpion Tournament video thread". IMO this is how scorpion should be played, and if done so...he's one hell of a character

They're not working for me. =[

 

[Kwon]

Watch 3:50 in this clip! Quite the comeback from Slips the Scorpion!
http://www.justin.tv/slipkicks/b/289224581

 

[GGA soonk]

I think the safe takedown and the slightly faster teleport are all some of us ever really wanted. Even slips is for both of those changes. No need for 1 strings to start mid, no need for faster B2, damage scaling is fine.

Also, whoever said others would kill for the 1 string mix ups for their character: if it's that good, don't you think making it hit mid would make it too good? and how are you linking spear from F3?

 

[spongebob]

Scorpion is god tier at the n00blevel. Spear wins against my full-screen random Flying Dragon Kick for a 30%+ damage, and he has a move that hits me wherever I am even if I block wtf? Please give Liu Kang Hellfire NRS

What are you talking about? At noob level the the ONLY follow up to spear is f213

Also 111 spear = a combo.

 

[Lyuben]

What are you talking about? At noob level the the ONLY follow up to spear is f213

Also 111 spear = a combo.

its f214 noob

and a better follow up is obviously throw. or uppercut. or 111.

 

[Bobby The Great]

I love Scorpion, as he tends to have an easy 40% combo for me to pull off and his mix-up game with unblockable fire is amazing. I think he's fine.

 

[Pagan]

There is no way Scorpion is fine the way he is. Everything, even his normals, (save for d+1, d+2 and d+3) fall under one of the following three categories: 1) Slow start up 2) unsafe on block 3) can be interrupted with armored specials on reaction. His mix ups are great and people use that as an excuse for him having no safe options. That's a moot point however because many characters have insane mix ups but don't risk giving the opponent a full combo.

In casual play a character like this is fine since win or lose you are going to play another game but look at Scorpion from the tournament perspective. In a 16 man tournament with double elimination you will have to play five, two-out-of-three games to get to the top. In every game you are going to try and set up for Scorpion's vortex and every time your opponent just needs to guess right and they will get a full combo. Now keep in mind if your opponents are of equal skill they are going to be landing their own setups as well. Luck isn't going to be on your side for 5+ matches. Eventually your opponents are going to guess right more than once and you're going to lose. In casuals I play Scorpion because I like him as a character and he's fun but never in tournies because there's no way his gimmicks are reliable.

Improving Scorpion wouldn't take anything drastic either. I think a lot of people are thinking of what happened with Kano when they think about improvements to characters but that should be the exception not the rule of improvements.

-Make 3,3 safe on block or make 3,3,4 link faster so armored attacks can't interrupt it after blocking the first two hits. I would consider this the most important change
-Faster teleport
-Make 2,1+2 safe on block
-make wakeup teleport invincible/armored until off screen
-Do something to takedown so that it's not worthless. Make it safe on block, Allow Scorpion some kind of OTG options after a successful take down... something because right now it feels like a waste of programming (not as bad as skeleton boost granted)
-If not the above or in addition... allow Scorpion to do spear or hellfire on wakeup

None of these changes are drastic. All it would do is give Scorpion something to throw out for spacing and soften the opponent up for a vortex setup or make them block so you can land hellfire. I don't think any of these options are greedy either. I play a wide variety of characters and most characters mid and above have options similar to these as well as equal or greater damage potential. Just look at the new DLC character Rain who a lot of people have noticed has some similarities to Scorpion without the glaring flaws.

 

[GGA soonk]

Isn't 33 already safe on block? Making 2 1+2 safe wouldn't be bad. People keep asking for safe B2 but that would be too much. The 2 1+2 is a high starting overhead string, so making that safe wouldn't be ridiculous. No reason for takedown to be unsafe the way it is. I would definitely take the invincible exit frames on a wakeup teleport punch as opposed to a faster teleport. That would fix his wakeup game without breaking the teleport. Hellfire on wakeup would be interesting, but I believe it leaves you at disadvantage on hit? Probably not worth it, and you'd be asking for a jip on wakeup.

 

[Lord Beef]

He is fine, just very unsafe. That's all. You can't just go brain dead with him. He's a MIX UP character. His resets are numerous and filled with yomi options for days. You can have success with him but too many players fall into a pattern with him. As the poster above said...41 off of landing an air2air jump kick??? 35+ off anti air spear with a reset? Sounds decent to me.....hell any scorpion opponent should be afraid to even TRY to jump between the threat of TP, AA spear and air throw....that alone should strike fear in mofos. Not to mention his EXTp. God like. Although, I will commiserate with the wake up game issue. It does kinda suck.
/endtroll
.
-b_s- :headbang:

 

[Pagan]

Isn't 33 already safe on block? Making 2 1+2 safe wouldn't be bad. People keep asking for safe B2 but that would be too much. The 2 1+2 is a high starting overhead string, so making that safe wouldn't be ridiculous. No reason for takedown to be unsafe the way it is. I would definitely take the invincible exit frames on a wakeup teleport punch as opposed to a faster teleport. That would fix his wakeup game without breaking the teleport. Hellfire on wakeup would be interesting, but I believe it leaves you at disadvantage on hit? Probably not worth it, and you'd be asking for a jip on wakeup.

Go ahead and test it but it looks like fast specials and pokes can hit you before you can block again. If I'm wrong then cool.

I agree b2 being safe would be overkill. You can get a lot of damage off b2 ending in a reset. As it is, it's a fantastic punish to a whiff or blocked teleport.

Wakeup hellfire isn't amazing I just think it would give Scorpion another, be it minor, option.

So far Scorpion players seem in agreement that we don't want massive buffs just slight tweaks to make him more consistent with the other characters.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I just want to say that scorpions EH teleport really isn't as good as people are saying but it's still useful. You can't just throw it out because it has frame advantage, Uppercuts and d+1 beat it on reaction. I think it's best used in corner combos , when predicting a projectile or maybe when you have someone in block stun.

 

[Lord Beef]

Has anyone managed to work the iaTP into their game? The timing is Hella strict, but it's a killer trick. For those un familiar, you teleport just before your feet hit the ground off a jump, and it cancels the punch, you essentially just land right next to the opp. Pretty good throw/sweep/f+4~spear set up

-b_s- :headbang:

 

[Vilén]

Eh, Scorpion's options are unsafe because he's the only 50/50 character who can really loop his successful mixups back into themselves. You'd create a real monster if you couldn't punish him after you guess right.

Pagan's suggestions are pretty solid, though.

 

[GGA soonk]

Eh, Scorpion's options are unsafe because he's the only 50/50 character who can really loop his successful mixups back into themselves. You'd create a real monster if you couldn't punish him after you guess right.

Pagan's suggestions are pretty solid, though.

Compared to Cyrax, who just gets to annihilate you the whole round with his traps. No guessing needed I guess our big issue is the lack of balance between some of these characters.

Hate to bicker, but I suggested a faster teleport and you said it was unnecessary, yet Pagan suggests it and it's solid? Which are you for? I only want it faster because you can't use it for wakeup without getting smacked out of it. The problem with invincible wakeup frames is they favor the characters with lower frame specials. If they could tweak Scorpions invincible wakeup frames to include his exit frames for the teleport then there wouldn't be a need to speed it up. IDK how feasible that is for coding purposes, though, as there is probably just a generic "invincible for X frames" on every characters wakeup.

So far the safe takedown seems unanimous. The safe 2 1+2 was a good idea. Nobody ever uses it during his mixups but is one of the better mixup strings imo. Looks like a high string but ends overhead? Can't complain about that. A bit unsafe, though, even with the pushback. Shouldn't give advantage, but leaving at neutral would be nice, same with the takedown. The safe takedown on its own would probably alleviate the wakeup issue and teleport changes might not even be necessary. EX Teleport should still have exit frame armor or invincibility, but that's just wishful thinking.

 

[Lyuben]

Scorpion could use a few tweaks here and there. But then, all characters do. What NRS should focus on is Raiden, Kabal, Kung Lao and Cyrax who all seem to be too good for the games sake.

 

[GGA soonk]

Scorpion could use a few tweaks here and there. But then, all characters do. What NRS should focus on is Raiden, Kabal, Kung Lao and Cyrax who all seem to be too good for the games sake.

I haven't heard much about Raiden lately, but Cyrax's traps are a little ridiculous. At the recent GGA tourney I got caught in a neverending reset, must've lost 70% of my bar before I ran out. Ridiculous. Problem is, some people want that crap in the game. Makes no sense to me.

 

[Muffinmuggers]

He is that bad. No options he has are safe, he loses all zoning battles, he's a complete guessing game where when he guesses wrong he eats 40% damage, but when he guesses correctly he only nets 30% on average.

He's not even good in close. So he's bad everywhere.

I also play about half the cast, decently at that.
I've taken AC1984's Kung Lao out of tournament with my Mileena.
I'm not exactly a noob here. : \
Scorpion just actually sucks.

Because, your dumb. Scorpion Is VERY good. Look your very dumb for saying this, play me on Xbox. My main character is reptile, but im good with scoprion too. Look. heres the thing the combo, Forward 4 is a kick to the legs. Forward 4 Spear, jump punch dash back 2 kick teleport kick teleport? oh, and he has a 64% reset, you think hes bad? try this on for size, 1 1 Spear, Forward 2 1 Teleport, thats a combo, and does 22%. The reset is Forward 4 Spear. and put a combo, 64% damage combo. Like legit? he is defintly NOTTT broken. If you think im kiddin, bro play me on xbox Muffin Muggers.

 

[PimpUigi]

Slips is hot btw...his Scorpion is very comparable to mine, but his is better. Much better, just saying his looks a lot like mine. He's a beast.
I see him do a few small things differently, especially in regards to his pressure game, and his AA game. Primarily his use of D+1~Teleport instead of my 3~Teleport.

I've edited the change list based on these videos...
http://www.justin.tv/slipkicks/b/289220625 (names are switched in the beginning) Slips vs. Mr. K
http://www.justin.tv/slipkicks/b/28922458 Slips vs. Killshot & Jody Tha Great

Just look at Slips fight Jody The Great, and you see why Scorpion sucks. This is not in question.
Slips = something like the best Scorpion in the country?
Jody The Great = Never heard of him. Certainly no Justin Wong/Perfect Legend Kung Lao, right?

It's certainly proof Scorpion needs a faster teleport, and a legit wakeup attack.
Kabal gets :enNomad Dash with 100% invincibility on wakeup, it grants him a combo and a reset, I've had it go through two acid balls and a D+4 as Reptile, and Kabal didn't even take armor damage.

 

[GGA soonk]

now that you're down to 2 suggestions instead of 7, I can get on board with you

 

[PimpUigi]

Tee hee.

 

[Vilén]

Regarding the faster teleport, I actually didn't catch that. It is unnecessary, he doesn't need it faster since there's no reason he should have it as an anti-zoning tool as long as he has Hellfire.

As for the invincibility frames, yeah, that's a coding thing. Any attack that gets the invincibility on wake up only gets it for 8 frames. Doing that for dick-slow specials was just stupid, I don't know how a company that produces fighting games could implement such a stupid system. Too many characters have ridiculously good wake-up moves while so many just have an impossible time waking up. Characters like Johnny Cage, Kung Lao, and Raiden, for all their abilities probably shouldn't get the gdlk wake-up options that they do. You knock them down and you STILL have to be on defense. WTF is that shit?

Anyway, not really in agreement with Scorpion getting a faster telepunch, but the :en version should have armor.

Though, the bottom line is, I don't really give a shit what they do with Scorpion. The imbalance in this game is really starting to irk me. Fuck, half this shit isn't even imbalanced so much as it is outright unfair.

Scorpion could use a few tweaks here and there. But then, all characters do. What NRS should focus on is Raiden, Kabal, Kung Lao and Cyrax who all seem to be too good for the games sake.

Kung Lao, Cyrax, Raiden, yeah. But Kabal? LOL. Try again.

 

[Slips]

Just look at Slips fight Jody The Great, and you see why Scorpion sucks. This is not in question.
Slips = something like the best Scorpion in the country?
Jody The Great = Never heard of him. Certainly no Justin Wong/Perfect Legend Kung Lao, right?

It's certainly proof Scorpion needs a faster teleport, and a legit wakeup attack.
Kabal gets :enNomad Dash with 100% invincibility on wakeup, it grants him a combo and a reset, I've had it go through two acid balls and a D+4 as Reptile, and Kabal didn't even take armor damage.

That was actually the first time Jody had ever beaten me, and you may not have heard of him but he's not a bad player at all. I'm expecting him to do well at Evo. I've only lost one tourney so far, and it just happened to be the one that was recorded. If you saw how the other tournies went and how casuals typically go between us, you'd see Scorp isn't bad at all.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not preaching Scorp is top tier, but he's definitely not as bad as your making him out to be. Would I like a reliable wake-up move? Of course. Either make his TP completely invincible until he gets to the other side of the screen, make his takedown invincible until the first active hit frame, or make his EX spear have a hit box that hits all the way to the floor.

Do I think its silly that Scorp's whiffed spear takes him 10 goddamn years to be able to block again while Cyrax has his net? A similar move that does twice as much damage, cannot be ducked, hard to jump, and even harder to punish on block? gtfoh

Do I think its retarded that every character in the friggin game has at least one safe special move except Scorpion? Yup!

But we gotta look at the positives too. Scorpion is probably 2nd or 3rd in punishment ability. He hits extremely hard. Above average zoning. And you gotta admit, nobody besides maybe cage does combos that go over 35% that reset into another 50/50 to where you could lose another 35%.

Scorp is mid tier, he has hard match-ups, but no match-up is unwinnable with him either.

Also note that even if I am the best Scorpion its because nobody else is taking him too seriously.