Strategy Rain's Mixup Game

[shoshinsha]

It's been briefly mentioned by a couple of people already, but I want to elaborate on it for emphasis: I think Rain's b+2 starter is going to be a HUGE part of his game. I'll list the reasons:

1. It's easily hit-confirmable.
2. It can be made safe on block in a number of ways (see below).
3. It has deceptive range.
4. You have a number of options out of it, all of which are excellent:
4a. You can follow it with 3 for a low hit that does 9% damage. That means if they block the first hit and eat the second, they've just taken 10% damage and are in place for a mixup. They cannot ignore this, because 3 or 4 of these will drain a huge chunk of life and they come out very fast, so they have to be thinking about blocking low sometimes.
4b. You can follow with 1+2 for an overhead, which will hit if they're worried about the option in 3a. From here, you can easily link into a combo that does 35-40% without meter.
4c. You can follow up with his superkick which is safe on block, or which can be charge-canceled out of for a throw attempt, special (teleport, water jet, geyser kick, etc. for different situations), or to reset the high/low trap.
4d. You can follow up with his ex superkick which has super armor, baiting a punish that will lead into anywhere from 30-35% damage.

I realize that his combos starting with 4, 3 do a little more damage (not that much, honestly), but the mixup potential on this move is insane--maybe unparalleled in the game.

 

[Lyuben]

Isn't 4,3 unsafe as well? Or can it be made safe as well?

 

[P Fratt]

Rain has great mix-up potential and can get some serious damage if your opponent guesses wrong. I just have one question, what if they block the back 2 and the 3? Is it safe/who has the advantage?

 

[shoshinsha]

Isn't 4,3 unsafe as well? Or can it be made safe as well?

I believe 4, 3 is MOSTLY safe (possibly a fast punish), but the problem is that it's much harder to hit-confirm, has no high-low or other mixup game out of it, and you can't combo into superkick on the ground from it. Basically your only option if it's blocked (provided you can confirm in time) is to cancel into the superkick, and allow it to be blocked or charge-cancel out of it into something else. But it's not nearly as threatening to your opponent as the b+2 option is.

Rain has great mix-up potential and can get some serious damage if your opponent guesses wrong. I just have one question, what if they block the back 2 and the 3? Is it safe/who has the advantage?

As far as I can tell, b+2, 3 is very safe on block. Can't tell if it gives much advantage, though.

 

[shoshinsha]

I'm going to give a blow-by-blow example of what I'm talking about (the ease and effectiveness of this tactic):

Start with b+2:

1. Go low (with 3):
1a. Blocked = safe.
1b. Hit = 10-11% damage + knockdown.

2. Go overhead (1+2):
2a. Blocked = safe
2b. Hit = visual confirm into combo:
- b+2, 1+2, >>, 4, 3, superkick, 4, 3, bubble, 4, 3, lightning, >>, 2, jet - 37%
- The (2, jet - 37%) ending is optimal because it leaves them standing and ready to be mixed up again, but it can be replaced with:
-- (4, geyser kick - 38%);
-- (jump 3/4, ex teleport - 39%);
-- (X-Ray, jet - 43%);
-- (X-Ray, geyser kick - 44%);
(Note that all combos listed are specifically NOT max damage, but rather max damage with reliable difficulty.)

3. Cancel into superkick (db+4) and confirm the b+2 hit or was blocked:
3a. You read they'll block or keep blocking: dash cancel into throw attempt, b+2 trap reset, etc.
3b. You read they'll try to counter-attack or escape: dash cancel forward/backward, teleport cancel, geyser kick cancel, or release kick if you think it'll hit and go into combo:
- superkick, 4, 3, bubble, 4, 3, lightning, >>, 2, jet - 32%
3b. You read a dangerous counter-attack (Raiden, Kano, etc.): cancel into ex superkick instead, let the armor absorb the hit, and go into above combo (36% off the ex superkick)

All of these options come exclusively out of the b+2 setup. That's just amazing to me. What's even better, the BnB combos for parts 2 and 3 are identical after the opener (from the superkick onward), meaning you don't have to memorize a bunch of crap and worry about your muscle memory pulling off the wrong command mid-combo.

 

[Subby]

Ah so this is one of his moves where he can cancel into a bunch of attacks I.E Sub-Zeros 22 string?

 

[BigDaddyKrames]

Problem with the mix-up... tell me why I should stop blocking low against Rain. All I have to do is block low until he does b+2, then wait a brief moment before standing again, right? The 3 follow-up to b+2 comes out so fast relative to the 1+2 follow-up that I wouldn't even have to guess at which move Rain is going to do; I can just switch blocking from low to high shortly after the b+2 and cover both situations.

By the way, if you really do see potential in the mix-up, I've noticed that ending a combo with Water Bubble sets the opponent up standing and gives you advantage if you let them go high up in front of you. It forces the opponent to block the b+2 if timed right, but reduces his combo damage a bit.

The issue with Aqua Splash is it makes both characters recover at the exact same time, as well as pushes the opponent away. The opponent isn't forced to accept Rain's mix-up at all.

 

[M2Dave]

b+2,1+2 and b+2,3 is not a mix up. The last hit of each string can be fuzzy guarded.

Also, b+2,3 is not safe on block. Unfortunately, I only tested against Reptile (b,f+2).

You guys need additional hits. Good luck building meter. The best characters in the game build one bar of super meter with 2-3 blocked strings. It almost takes 6 reps of b+2,1+2 to build one bar.

 

[shoshinsha]

Problem with the mix-up... tell me why I should stop blocking low against Rain. All I have to do is block low until he does b+2, then wait a brief moment before standing again, right? The 3 follow-up to b+2 comes out so fast relative to the 1+2 follow-up that I wouldn't even have to guess at which move Rain is going to do; I can just switch blocking from low to high shortly after the b+2 and cover both situations.

By the way, if you really do see potential in the mix-up, I've noticed that ending a combo with Water Bubble sets the opponent up standing and gives you advantage if you let them go high up in front of you. It forces the opponent to block the b+2 if timed right, but reduces his combo damage a bit.

The issue with Aqua Splash is it makes both characters recover at the exact same time, as well as pushes the opponent away. The opponent isn't forced to accept Rain's mix-up at all.

I appreciate the thought on bubble giving advantage. I'll play with that and see if I can find ways to end combos with it that don't cut into their damage too much.

As to your question, there are a couple of answers. First, there's the simple fact that your strategy works well on paper, but is much harder to do consistently in the heat of battle. Second, there's the whole third "branch" of the gameplan I listed above. If you show a pattern of continually blocking both highs and lows correctly, there's the superkick cancel, which can be canceled into any of his various specials or simply into a throw. If you wind up focusing solely on fuzzy guarding, you're going to risk eating repeated throws. If you try to jump out of the throw attempt, you risk getting hit with a bubble (jumping back), or a geyser kick (jumping forward).

As TomBrady always likes to point out to people searching for foolproof strategies: no such thing exists. It's all a chess game of read, predict, and react. That's why having options like the ones I made this topic for are so important. With them, Rain has options for people who block high, low, counterattack, or run away. Using them right is up to the player.

b+2,1+2 and b+2,3 is not a mix up. The last hit of each string can be fuzzy guarded.

Also, b+2,3 is not safe on block. Unfortunately, I only tested against Reptile (b,f+2).

You guys need additional hits. Good luck building meter. The best characters in the game build one bar of super meter with 2-3 blocked strings. It almost takes 6 reps of b+2,1+2 to build one bar.

I'm not surprised Reptile can punish the string. That may just be a harder matchup for Rain (he's not alone). Still, it's always harder to do in the heat of the moment.

The fuzzy guarding issue is exactly why I pointed out the superkick cancel. Not only does it flesh out a bunch of different mixup options, but the ex version gives Rain an ARMORED launcher. That's a huge asset.

 

[BigDaddyKrames]

As to your question, there are a couple of answers. First, there's the simple fact that your strategy works well on paper, but is much harder to do consistently in the heat of battle. Second, there's the whole third "branch" of the gameplan I listed above. If you show a pattern of continually blocking both highs and lows correctly, there's the superkick cancel, which can be canceled into any of his various specials or simply into a throw. If you wind up focusing solely on fuzzy guarding, you're going to risk eating repeated throws. If you try to jump out of the throw attempt, you risk getting hit with a bubble (jumping back), or a geyser kick (jumping forward).

Thing is, it's not a difficult fuzzy guard at all; the 3 is so fast it's almost as if the opponent can treat b+2 as if its only follow-up is an overhead as far as blocking goes. It leaves the only things to watch out for being a throw or a cancel for more pressure, rather than an actual mix-up. While I agree that (EX) Super Kick-cancelling has potential in Rain's throw and baiting game, it can be done off several other strings that can start up faster and/or have more range than b+2. The only way I see b+2 being desirable is if you can cancel Super Kick into d+4 quickly enough to actually make some sort of overhead/low mix-up; otherwise, why not use another string? Can't check right now to see which strings also hit crouch-blockers and are easily hit-confirmable, but even 1,2,f+4 starts pressure about as quickly as b+2 if I recall correctly since the second hit hits crouch-blockers and comes out quickly.

 

[Creepy00]

I dont see anyone talking about rain teleport, it is part or major part of his mix ups
1) Easy way to get away from wake up calls
2) Reverse your opponent inputs
3) Mind Games/ mix ups opportunities
4) Anti air punish with Ex Teleport
5) Punish Unsafe Zoners
i Think someone already covered this on a video. Just wanted to remind and point out

 

[shoshinsha]

Well I played with using the bubble as a reset option at the end of combos. The only reliable combos I could get topped out at 28-30% damage.

b+2, 1+2, >> 4, 3, superkick, 4, 3, lightning, bubble - 29%

HOWEVER, on the way to that, I stumbled across another interesting option:
b+2, 1+2, >>, 4, 3, superkick, 4, 3, bubble, 4, 3, lightning, >>, lightning - 34%

The final lightning barely bounces them up at all, but you recover by the time they touch the ground and the dash puts them lying right at your feet. You have weeks of advantage to start whatever you want to start.

 

[M2Dave]

I dont see anyone talking about rain teleport, it is part or major part of his mix ups
1) Easy way to get away from wake up calls
2) Reverse your opponent inputs
3) Mind Games/ mix ups opportunities
4) Anti air punish with Ex Teleport
5) Punish Unsafe Zoners
i Think someone already covered this on a video. Just wanted to remind and point out

It's really just a poor version of Raiden's teleport. Rain's teleport has more start up frames along with more recovery frames. You get punished if you abuse it. Also, the enhanced version is not safe on block.

 

[Vilén]

The enhanced teleport isn't safe on block? And this guy already builds meter so slowly...

NRS really went nowhere out of their way with this guy, did they? At least his combos are really fun to do.

 

[Gamin_Guru]

pressing 1+2 after B+2 is such a PITA when using a pad. Damn you NRS breaking my wrist with un-ergonomic finger placements.

 

[Wenis of Lore]

Well I played with using the bubble as a reset option at the end of combos. The only reliable combos I could get topped out at 28-30% damage.

b+2, 1+2, >> 4, 3, superkick, 4, 3, lightning, bubble - 29%

HOWEVER, on the way to that, I stumbled across another interesting option:
b+2, 1+2, >>, 4, 3, superkick, 4, 3, bubble, 4, 3, lightning, >>, lightning - 34%

The final lightning barely bounces them up at all, but you recover by the time they touch the ground and the dash puts them lying right at your feet. You have weeks of advantage to start whatever you want to start.

JIP, 4, 3, lighting, super-roundhouse, 4, 3, bubble(reset) -- 31%

but if you take that bubble and do: 4, 3, aqua splash it's 40% no meter

 

[UsedForGlue]

My Bread & Butter with rain is quite simple.

JIP, 1 2 f4, dash, 1 1 Super Roundhouse, 4 3 Lightning -

From there, 4 3 Aqua Splash - 41%

As they are in the air from the lightning, activate H20 Buff, and jump over for the overhead combo start on wake up and land a potential 55% if you connect with the JIP.

or Bubble, lift them up high for the drop, and reset for a throw or 4 3 Round House cancel.

 

[TeslaCollider]

I strongly believe that the biggest part of Rain's "Mixup Game" is really all about dash-cancelling his Roundhouse into throw, b+2 1+2, teleport, d2 etc...

Do a combo-starter, cancel it into Roundhouse, dash cancel the roundhouse into d2, 12 another roundhouse, and so forth. A bit like Stryker but more in your face. I feel that Rain will be a great rushdown style character, you just have to use his tools to take advantage. You could just let the roundhouse go as well and they eat a full Roundhouse + your followup of choice.

His Geyser Kick is extremely effective if they try to jump over whatever you try to do. I'd consider Rain an anti-crossup character just because of that one move. I'm loving rain so far.

 

[GERNBURGS]

I noticed this last night... I haven't seen this posted anywhere else yet, but I'm sure others have probably found this by now. Check it out:

On HIT ---> B+2 xx Roundhouse xx FF (dash-cancel forward), 3,3 or 4,3 is a true 3-hit combo!​

Sadly I didn't figure this out that this combo was possible until almost 2:00 AM last night, and I had to be at work by 9:00 AM today, so I didn't have a ton of time to experiment. Tonight I'm going to see how much damage you can get off of it. I'll definitely post my results tomorrow. For your reference the two most important aspects of the timing for this combo sequence are:

A) Cancelling B+2 in a Roundhouse on the earliest possible frame...

THEN...​

B) Cancelling the Roundhouse special with a forward dash at the earliest possible frame...

*also note linking into the 4,3 chain has slightly tighter timing than the 3,3 chain...​

This is not an easy combo but it gives you more options of Rain's B+2... If B+2 lands, you have enough advantage out of an instant Roundhouse xx dash-cancel that your opponent does not have time to block either of your strings starting with front kick or back kick -- that's proof of concept as to how big that advantage must be.

B+2 may not be a mix-up in the sense that it's a true 50/50 low vs. mid attack, but it gives you the initiative to keep attacking and look for another opening. Therefore, it's a good attack to pressure with because Rain has more options than his opponents on both hit and on block. If you fuzzy guard my follow ups, then you're not countering me right after B+2 so you allow me to continue pressuring you.

After you block B+2 and fuzzy guard, I can continue pressure with the canned follow-ups after B+2 (3 or 1+2), which you will beat with a good fuzzy, I could also go for an immediate B+2 again and see if you'll fuzzy again, I can Roundhouse-cancel and dash in, but no matter what, you're still the one playing defense and I'm building meter by making you block...

I absolutely agree with you that fuzzy guarding is a very strong defensive option after a blocked B+2, but in doing so you must forgo your chance to immediately counter-attack if I chose any of my other options, I see that as working in Rain's favor for the most part. If you do try to counter-attack immediately out of a blocked B+2, that's a risky choice, you're going to have be mind reading at that point and you're not attacking into a 50/50, most of my options will beat that -- only Roundhouse-cancel would lose.

 

[shoshinsha]

JIP, 4, 3, lighting, super-roundhouse, 4, 3, bubble(reset) -- 31%

but if you take that bubble and do: 4, 3, aqua splash it's 40% no meter

Without the jip that's 28%, which is less than the one I posted.