Rain General Discussion

[bmoee1]

You literally just described my week nights as I was going through Kombat League with Rain. LOL. I took a shot every time Baraka/Cyrax and Raiden/Jax hit me with a 50%+ combo.

@exeeter702 I like some of your suggestions, but I think that reducing the startup of water stream is a predictable and, no offense, boring change. NRS needs to experiment and develop strong zoning characters who perform more than one or two projectiles that shut down half the cast in a dominant and monotonous fashion, as observed in previous games.

My interpretation of Rain's gameplay design is the following. Keep the slow start of water stream, but change the hit range to mid, forcing opponents to flawless block or jump. When opponents start jumping, do Rain God. Yes, both moves are slow yet cancelable so there is some execution and anticipation involved. When opponents attempt to zone you, place the appropriate water portal (and hence the reason for my previous suggestion) on the screen in order to threaten a punish with the teleport. In order to improve footsies, either make d+3 less minus on block or increase the push back on block, as you suggested. Now the character has a game plan that (not to continue the meme) functions properly.

I like this… If they Make Ex water beam & fully charge water beam a mid, plus allow water shield to absorb all projectiles during its duration, I could get behind this. It would allow for more kameo versatility and keep rain from being op.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

I don’t play Rain but this tech may be interesting to someone. Sonicfox says Rain is top 5

https://x.com/solo_gains/status/1712282168628482228?s=46&t=hSkiyIrskk7H7tDvqotbpg

https://x.com/sonicfox/status/1712326855783817378?s=46&t=hSkiyIrskk7H7tDvqotbpg

 

[SaladPlateLover]

Very fun to watch Sonicfox's Rain although Cyrax enables him to do half the thing he does. Covers one of his biggest weakness of geysey being -16, turning it into a tool he can cancel off of d1s and d3s into pressure, or an armoured launcher. Timing Cyrax to combo off of grab and landing full charge beam from the spin both look to have precise timing, and took him some time to get used to.

What was impressive to me is how he whiff punished with b2 though it also missed just short plenty of times too. He also used rain god cancels and I think reason they worked is because opponents were waiting to block the bolt from conditioning.

 

[DarksydeDash]

I planned on making a video like this but Ketchup beat me to it. Very informative for anyone looking to learn Rain.

 

[M2Dave]

Rain has gone from bottom 3 to top 10 because of Cyrax.

Roethor has switched from Rain/Sub Zero to Rain/Cyrax.

Synergy with kameos is arguably more important than a character's base toolkit in this game.

When NRS eventually "normalizes" Cyrax, what will be the consequences for Rain (as well as the 10+ other characters with whom Cyrax synergizes very well)?

 

[SaladPlateLover]

Would be cool if the last hit of 211 didn't knock up so you could do ex-db1 or some ground cameos as currently the launch part is not useful. I mean it's a really cool looking string

 

[The Ultimate]

When NRS eventually "normalizes" Cyrax, what will be the consequences for Rain (as well as the 10+ other characters with whom Cyrax synergizes very well)?

It depends on how NRS nerfs Cyrax. If they turn horizontal copter into a summon, then that will be a devastating nerf to the characters that synergize the most with Cyrax.

If they adjust the cooldowns of horizontal/vertical copter to be 20-25 seconds, as well as reduce the chip damage & meter gain, that wouldn't be as devastating a nerf, but a nerf nonetheless.

If they turn horizontal copter into an assist that takes 100% kameo meter ala Goro stomp(without adjusting the cooldowns at all), that I think might be the most interesting way to nerf him, since using 100% kameo meter is a big commitment in this game.

 

[SaladPlateLover]

Pretty funny that Sonicfox used confluence beam more times than teleport throughout his tourney run lol

 

[exeeter702]

Pretty funny that Sonicfox used confluence beam more times than teleport throughout his tourney run lol

Funny perhaps, surprising? Not in the least. Portal jump was always terrible, despite the efforts of many to try and make it work as a mixup or zoning took.

Off screen portal for confluence snipes will always be satisfying. Spending a bar to keep your turn going in the corner, less so.

 

[SaladPlateLover]

Funny perhaps, surprising? Not in the least. Portal jump was always terrible, despite the efforts of many to try and make it work as a mixup or zoning took.

Off screen portal for confluence snipes will always be satisfying. Spending a bar to keep your turn going in the corner, less so.

Not surprised. I was really hoping they would buff it in this patch though because it's my favourite special from him, o well

 

[DarksydeDash]

With Cyrax nerfed, Rain loses a lot of offense.

We now have new combo possibilities with weather ball so long as the opponent is not airborne first.

Atm, I'm thinking that Scorpion, Sub Zero, or Stryker might be our best kameo options now, with Sub being the strongest.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

Pretty funny that Sonicfox used confluence beam more times than teleport throughout his tourney run lol

Sonic is using confluence beam because it makes him +3ob it's essentially another Cyrax chopper on tap. Cost a bar but good for pressure.
Portals have numerous glitches that make it useless as a teleport or at least very situational like getting one behind them getting back to other side and using it to pressure so they can't turn around in time to poke him out.
He is completely vulnerable from start of teleport to landing and can be clipped while inside. If they hit you with projectile it glitches and leaves both portals up.
If two portals are on top of eachother it will stay until timer is out even when porting with DF2 up to 7x and he goes directly to ground, no air attacks.
The reason he sets portals is the fact they give 3x as much meter and they make a -7 move -2 on block (114xxDB2) or F21xxDB2 -4ob
It essentially allows rain to add another poke on their turn or backdash for wiff punish with Mid or 11.
So Sonic builds meter crazy fast in corner setting them then pops Beam to steal another turn.
Only problem I have with Sonics gameplan is 90% of his conversions are from doing -6 on block moves and then launching with EX DB3(armored Geyser) and getting 20% per touch.
He actually messed up the corner HTB setup every single time. He placed medium one out of screen instead of close pool to make it hit on first available frame and force them to block or get armor broken. There's counterplay to his HTB but it is a mind game
Edit: Sonic uses the out of screen pool so he has option to throw them in it. Which is kinda dope, they can get out easy and no armor break with how he sets it up but I'm sure Sonic is fast enough to condition them with insta throw to not try getup armor.
But for HTB Close pool is best, it breaks armor and you can delay the F3 to add Kara Cancel mix for if they delay wake-up. It breaks Armor.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

With Cyrax nerfed, Rain loses a lot of offense.

We now have new combo possibilities with weather ball so long as the opponent is not airborne first.

Atm, I'm thinking that Scorpion, Sub Zero, or Stryker might be our best kameo options now, with Sub being the strongest.

As soon as I get it downloaded I'm testing what pressure Cyrax still gives Rain. If it's possible to use Cyrax midscreen for opener, then corner carry and then have at least one Cyrax for HTB setup I'm completely fine with Cyrax.
I just knew they where going to nerf things that effected mid tier characters hard and Top Tier characters would be fine because they have everything, amazing buttons, + frames, staggers, good damage even after nerf and really didn't need Kameos. Remember Raiden will still have true launching 50/50's with Cyrax up copter for 44% which wasn't nerfed and comes right back.

They could have just neutered the chip damage and made forward Chopper have a slightly longer Regen allowing one forward Chopper and one up chopper but then a longer wait.

 

[DarksydeDash]

As soon as I get it downloaded I'm testing what pressure Cyrax still gives Rain. If it's possible to use Cyrax midscreen for opener, then corner carry and then have at least one Cyrax for HTB setup I'm completely fine with Cyrax.
I just knew they where going to nerf things that effected mid tier characters hard and Top Tier characters would be fine because they have everything, amazing buttons, + frames, staggers, good damage even after nerf and really didn't need Kameos. Remember Raiden will still have true launching 50/50's with Cyrax up copter for 44% which wasn't nerfed and comes right back.

They could have just neutered the chip damage and made forward Chopper have a slightly longer Regen allowing one forward Chopper and one up chopper but then a longer wait.

The problem with cyrwx is that his full kameo bar is how you'll get your meterless routes. Otherwise, you'll need a bar on deck.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

The problem with cyrwx is that his full kameo bar is how you'll get your meterless routes. Otherwise, you'll need a bar on deck.

Well since all his "mix" was reactable my only options is use Stryker for high damage with harder execution water beam cancels but be limited to 211 string which is not mix and only good for combo in corner.
Or use Cyrax for HTB and lose damage and pressure. Or use Cyrax for one time of pressure and lose setups.
Or use Sub Zero for easy HTB setups and lose mix and pressure but have decent zoning.
Or use Lao hat for decent mix and have pseudo HTBs with 28 frame overhead.

Can't believe they nerfed Kung Lao Kameo Spin Launcher to a knockdown. It was literally awesome for lacking characters gave them invulnerable gap launcher.
They Nerfed Rains J2 made it UpBlockable.

I'll have to test more, but I'm honestly not sure what is gonna fill Rains holes the best. Looks like Sonic just went to Raiden after patch.

 

[M2Dave]

I'll have to test more, but I'm honestly not sure what is gonna fill Rains holes the best. Looks like Sonic just went to Raiden after patch.

Sonic Fox was not up playing. I was too ignorant and too preoccupied with NRS's "premier zoning character" propaganda to see the light.

Pre-patch Rain was top 3 because of safe armor and certain chip sequences.

d+3, close geyser, helicopter was especially powerful if you analyzed Sonic Fox's matches at East Coast Throwdown.

Since Cyrax no longer plays a part in the meta, Rain is arguably mid tier. He synergizes nowhere near as well as other characters do with Kung Lao, who is clearly the best kameo in the game at this time.

That is why Sonic Fox is likely switching to Raiden and perhaps eventually to Kenshi..

At least Rain had the opportunity to be top tier for a month. LOL.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Rain feels AWFUL to play right now. The double kameo combos I did with scorpion are not worth it anymore because you get a stupid long cooldown.

idk how I feel right now about Rain..

 

[exeeter702]

too preoccupied with NRS's "premier zoning character" propaganda to see the light.

Yep. But frankly I I wouldnt even call it that at this point lol. I honest to god believe that NRS was simply incompetent in their execution and truly envisioned him to be a technical zoner with a few good close range perks.

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The elements that contributed to Rain being strong were completely in spite of his intended design being afforded a pedestal to toe to toe with the other strong characters in the game by way of Cryax. NRS would never have said he was a premier zoner if their was even a smidge of understanding on their part of what their roster looked like in terms of character / cameo strengths. Or the one who said it, was completely disconnected from the ones that were actually knee deep in designing the character.

There were a small number of people that didnt want to hear it, when it was being said that Cryax is really the only truly tournament viable option. Scorp was only worth a damn if your opponent was free to f3,2. Scorp armored launcher is proper attractive now post cyrax nerf, but not by much due to the scaling. Sub is cute if your opponent cant delay getup, or if they can and you are willing to forego guaranteed damage for an addition layer of guesswork. Anti projectile is great but only for a select few MUs and even then its opponent cameo choice dependent.

I realize this isnt even a real balance patch all things considered. Just a quick addressing of outlier issues and many bug fixes. But, and i realize im in the minority here with the history of how most NRS players feel about true full on zoning characters but Rain ending up being optimally played as a plus range pressure character with some situationally useful zoning tools was an absolute major letdown to me. After 200ish hours of play time with Rain, it took the wind out of my sails. And I mean, I really tried to make the technical zoning playstyle work, but It just falls apart in demigod and up. It was go cyrax (or go home) and use half the functionality of a core skill of his (portal) for fucking plus frame advantage while mixing up with f3/throw and hit confirming into launcher.

TLDR Rain became top tier by more of an accident than any of the other characters, who's gameplans that made them powerful where very clearly core to their design philosophy and simply overtuned which is a very different thing.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

Sonic Fox was not up playing. I was too ignorant and too preoccupied with NRS's "premier zoning character" propaganda to see the light.

Pre-patch Rain was top 3 because of safe armor and certain chip sequences.

d+3, close geyser, helicopter was especially powerful if you analyzed Sonic Fox's matches at East Coast Throwdown.

Since Cyrax no longer plays a part in the meta, Rain is arguably mid tier. He synergizes nowhere near as well as other characters do with Kung Lao, who is clearly the best kameo in the game at this time.

That is why Sonic Fox is likely switching to Raiden and perhaps eventually to Kenshi..

At least Rain had the opportunity to be top tier for a month. LOL.

Well I think I was wrong, I've found some things specifically HTB setups with Lao and Some cool dirt with Kano

His buttons may be not S Tier but Lao covers that:

Lao Meterless HTB setup, the second requires them not blocking pool but still something:

This Kano one hits in combo so it's a true forced whirlpool. Haven't figured out how to loop it yet, need time:

Kano also extends combos if you input Water Beam Cancel at same time off his 11 starter midscreen 39% 1Bar:

You also have enough time to get close whirlpool down for potential HTB setup with the new altered medium Rain God projectile:

Kano does the HTB setup midscreen into kara cancel or combo:

Kano also gives high damage with water beam cancels in corner off F21/211 and I know there's more to it

Now Stryker grenades:
They give his plus on block, combo extension from 211/11/F21, and they give him the midscreen and corner HTB setups, I also think you might be able to launch from Armored Geysers but here's what I got so far:

Stryker HTB setup off 211:

HTB setup off F3:

Stryker HTB setups off F21 corner:

Stryker gives 1BAR 43% in corner off F21 using Grenades and Water Beam Cancel:

Stryker gives Rain 37% in corner off same Water Beam Cancel with Stryker Grenades:

Remember Stryker does so much more, he has the overhead+6 on block or low that's +1 on block so he has other ways to pressure and force wasted meter by breaking armor with HTB setups and might be something with Restand in corner.

And we have the Sonic meter build using water beam cancels instead of backdash and it does get him back pretty quick:

Then there 114xxportal which is -2 on block allows you to steal turn with poke and build meter very fast.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

@M2Dave

I honestly think Rain may work best with Striker now:
Here's a version that does essentially the same thing as Cyrax with Armored Geysers, it makes them plus on block, makes them safe, and on hit goes into combo or mixup, I mean Sonic was only getting 20% off his Armored Geysers into Cyrax, this still provides the blow up potential after -6 moves on their turn or after D3:

I'll just put up a condensed compilation and update here after with Stryker Tech:

 

[M2Dave]

There is a gap between geyser and grenades. When performed too close, which will be in the case in wake up situations, every character can trade with uppercut, which is not in Rain's favor.

Cyrax's helicopter, on the other hand, completely jails, but obviously takes a year and half to recharge now.

Also, how is this guy doing f+2,1, grenades, Rain God around 3:42? This combo does not even work for me.

The problem with the Kung Lao kameo is that neither 1,1 nor f+2,1 goes into hat spin, which would give you decent meter-less damage.

I am honestly not sold on either Stryker or Kung Lao until I see one or the other in action with some success.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

There is a gap between geyser and grenades. When performed too close, which will be in the case in wake up situations, every character can trade with uppercut, which is not in Rain's favor.

Cyrax's helicopter, on the other hand, completely jails, but obviously takes a year and half to recharge now.

Also, how is this guy doing f+2,1, grenades, Rain God around 3:42? This combo does not even work for me.

The problem with the Kung Lao kameo is that neither 1,1 nor f+2,1 goes into hat spin, which would give you decent meter-less damage.

I am honestly not sold on either Stryker or Kung Lao until I see one or the other in action with some success.

I timed Stryker to not allow armor.
I know I'll say it wrong I'll just show you, it'll take a bit to upload them but I'll update:
They force HTB setup through most the rosters Armor, obviously not Kung Laos cuz his shit broke:

Armor Geyser after -6/-7 string and D3 Armor Geyser, you get the idea:

Safe off F3 Stryker Pool Setup vs Raiden and many of the cast, obviously Lao beats this setup:

Honestly probably use Lao Kameo for HTBs against Kung Lao+Goro matchup.

Alberonen is pretty good with execution he's definitely better than me with cancels. The F21 Water Beam Cancel Kombos midscreen are pretty tight but I've done them definitely possible but hard to get consistently. You just have to cancel the water beam at the first available frame and dash out immediately into button after you dash far enough not to wiff your F21

But now that they removed armored launchers from Kameos on reversal and the fact only two characters can armor launch, I'm not to worried about messing up the tight timing to prevent armor launch. It might be worth them doing 8-11% to lose ability to breaker and the fact Flawless Block now prevents meter build for opponent is definitely a huge defensive buff.

But I definitely love those HTB setups there are many ways to bait them using different timings and on hit they combo with no gap straight into HTB setups.
Did you find any way to loop Kanos HTB setups?
You find any Dirt for Rain?

 

[M2Dave]

Did you find any way to loop Kanos HTB setups?
You find any Dirt for Rain?

I did not.

As I have already mentioned, I am not convinced that Rain is anywhere near as strong as he used to be with pre-patch Cyrax. I have been struggling in Kombat League. I perform far better with Reiko/Kung Lao. I feel like I can zone and play to my strengths.

After watching your videos, I recommend testing gaps with characters like Scorpion, Sub Zero, Tanya, etc. Their armor is much faster than Raiden's, whose armor is one of the slowest in the game at 22 frames. Trust me when I say that there are gaps, unfortunately.

By the way, I still do not understand how to do combos with Stryker after f+2,1. What are the inputs? f+2,1, close grenades, Rain God does not work for me.

2,1,1, close grenades, water beam cancel, f+3,2, jumping 2,4,3, 2, close geyser works because the close grenades combo after 2,1,1 (perform water beam cancel after the third hit connects).

 

[DarksydeDash]

I'm feeling like Kano will be the next best option

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

I did not.

As I have already mentioned, I am not convinced that Rain is anywhere near as strong as he used to be with pre-patch Cyrax. I have been struggling in Kombat League. I perform far better with Reiko/Kung Lao. I feel like I can zone and play to my strengths.

After watching your videos, I recommend testing gaps with characters like Scorpion, Sub Zero, Tanya, etc. Their armor is much faster than Raiden's, whose armor is one of the slowest in the game at 22 frames. Trust me when I say that there are gaps, unfortunately.

By the way, I still do not understand how to do combos with Stryker after f+2,1. What are the inputs? f+2,1, close grenades, Rain God does not work for me.

2,1,1, close grenades, water beam cancel, f+3,2, jumping 2,4,3, 2, close geyser works because the close grenades combo after 2,1,1 (perform water beam cancel after the third hit connects).

F21xxGrenadesxxBF[1]xxForwardDashxxF21 into regular BNB ender with EXDB1.
You have to get it almost frame perfect after F21 WBC then after Dash wait about 5 frames longer so you get just a bit further so the mid connects and doesn't wiff. It's far easier in corner but possible in midscreen.
Another tip is call close grenades between F2(here)1 and buffer BF1 off the B+R1 Kameo input so you only have to input F[1] for water beam.

[ ] = hold button.

But it's definitely hard AF. Easy for me in corner but I have all of the other button cancels beat into muscle memory.
Cyrax F21 WBC Kombos was easy midscreen.
Kano is easier just call Kameo on first input.

You are right on the gaps, definitely D3xxEXDB3 is not safe vs many.
Talked with Bluelinkys and it doesn't look good.
Best Kameo for Rain right now seems to be Lao because it's a do any button for free with held buzzsaw and you get it out from blocked F21 and after every BNB ender and every HTB setup.

But I get what your saying now. I simply just didn't have the time to lab every matchup until now and several top players who are better than me are saying Jax, Kano, Stryker are lacking in certain areas. Seems every Rain player is struggling right now to find the right Kameo.
But maybe something will be discovered.
They are rightfully afraid to use Rain/Lao vs Johnny/Lao and Lao will probably be nerfed again if it follows the same path