General/Other - Thunder God Raiden *Thunder God* Discussion

[Quito]

can't find the right timing for the electric fly after the big chip damage
when raiden teleport to finish the combo...the motion for elecric fly need to be at the end?

 

[Nivek]

can't find the right timing for the electric fly after the big chip damage
when raiden teleport to finish the combo...the motion for elecric fly need to be at the end?

You do it before he finishes the string

 

[Vilén]

Corner 52%

El oh goddamn motherfucking el.

I love Raiden.

 

[Albo]

I'm liking thunder god most so far out of the three variations. The added strings give extra damage, more chip, juggle, have more range and even though -on block they have quite a bit of pushblock and can be cancelled into specials even when fully charged. F12(b2)is a sick string with 5f startup and f2 2+4 has good range with near half screen hitbox.

 

[Albo]

So brady was droppin some knowledge on stream about thunder god variation

He showed off a standing reset that when ending any combo with b14, leaves the opponent standing at -7 allowing you to continue pressure, particularly with raiden's 5frame f12b2 string. If the opponent tries to armour out, the armour breaking properties of thunder god variation strings allow you to break their armour with the multiple hits of the strings by holding them leading into juggles.

You can mixup between b32 low which is one of the held strings in this variation, and b2 overhead which is very unsafe but deals a lot of damage.

if the opponent blocks when reset thunder god strings build considerable meter on block and do considerable chip damage . F12b2 for example builds nearly 50% of a bar of meter and quite a bit of chip damage and 1122(hold) you can build 80% of a meter bar and around 5% chip. These strings leaves you at - but have pushback and can be cancelled into specials even when fully held. f2 2+4 is another great string with huge range and hitbox. These strings also deal more damage in combos I believe.

 

[Euph0nic]

I think he's meaty, in the sense that he has large broad starters and powerful, spammy strings which are unforgiving on block/chips. This is probably the rushdown raiden?

 

[lmx17]

can he cancel his lighting bolt in this variation or only charge it?

 

[just_2swift]

can he cancel his lighting bolt in this variation or only charge it?

Cancel it also

 

[just_2swift]

I'm digging thunder God

 

[just_2swift]

After a combo string that ends in a full charge.... can he run up and connect normals?

 

[just_2swift]

After df2MB has anyone tried to run under and cancel with upper cut? Could be possible...

 

[Barrogh]

What I've noticed that there are no strings with holdable first hit. A bit of a letdown, I thought there may be some anti-armor option like that.

 

[Albo]

What I've noticed that there are no strings with holdable first hit. A bit of a letdown, I thought there may be some anti-armor option like that.

That would be useful but if your talking about the reset, just do f12b2, they can only block or take the hit. I tested escaping with loa's 4f spin, ex spin and several xrays but raiden's f1 is too quick. I'm not completely sure what brady meant when talking about the anti armour in relation to it but I believe it's for when finishing the holdable string, if the opponent tries to armour or xray and you choose to hold the string, it will break it.

 

[Barrogh]

That would be useful but if your talking about the reset, just do f12b2, they can only block or take the hit. I tested escaping with loa's 4f spin, ex spin and several xrays but raiden's f1 is too quick. I'm not completely sure what brady meant when talking about the anti armour in relation to it but I believe it's for when finishing the holdable string, if the opponent tries to armour or xray and you choose to hold the string, it will break it.

f1 is 5f high, so probably trying to beat it is not the way to go.
On f12b[2], I don't know. Maybe he meant that there's a gap between second and third hit? Otherwise I don't see how multi-hitting 3rd move in the chain is relevant and why would anyone try to armor after second hit, unless we are talking about aforementioned "reverse mixup" off f1. Probably knowing frame data of regular b12b2 would be helpful.

 

[Chaosphere]

What I've noticed that there are no strings with holdable first hit. A bit of a letdown, I thought there may be some anti-armor option like that.

After you knock them down... b3~ex-shocker will blow through their armored wakeup if you time it correctly with displacer/mos. Thunder god can do this meterlessly with b32-hold.

 

[Chaosphere]

What I've noticed that there are no strings with holdable first hit. A bit of a letdown, I thought there may be some anti-armor option like that.

That's ok though. You can still break hella armor. After a b111+3 or superman in the corner, instantly input b32 and hold the 2. This will blow up any wakeup they attempt whatsoever to put them back in the corner blender. Works against sub's ex-slide (which I'm using as a default since it's really fast.) This also works mid screen against fast advancing ex-specials. For instance... kung jin's flying dick move (whatever it's called.) After knockdown... you immediately run and cancel it pretty quickly into b32 and hold the 2. It might seem like you're too far away, but KJ's wakeup travels the screen so fast that he falls right into your lightning shit and you can follow up with a superman which pretty much puts them in the corner.

 

[brizzle]

So I see a lot of potential with EX lightning. It can make your overhead and superman safe. I've tried some of my own setups, but none guaranteed. Had anyone found guaranteed setups to place the bolt directly in front of the opponent after a Kombo?

 

[TheJaquio]

I feel like thunder god has some definite strengths to be considered with the b32(hold) and f12b2(hold) strings. They are only -7 on block and push the opponent out of jab range, making them mostly safe. Meanwhile, all of the chargeable moves do chip damage and meterbuild on block. Plus, they are super easy to hit confirm into superman for meterless damage in the high teens, OR into MBdb3 for a full combo in at least the mid-twenties. Plus, there is the meterless wakeup-crushing of a meaty b32(hold).

So the question is, is anyone getting punished for just throwing these out there?

 

[shoshinsha]

A couple things for you guys. One is some tech, and the other is a question:

First, you can get some pretty nice, confirmable combos off of his chargeable strings, most especially f12b2, b32, f2 3+2, and (to a lesser extent) the pre-and post- teleport parts of 112(2) and b112(2). Fully charging these strings adds approximately 4 hits and sends the opponent flying, but if you hold for only 1, 2, or 3 hits, you recover almost instantly. This means you can do things like this:

F12b2(level 3 charge), f2 3+2…

B32 (level 2 charge), b14…

F2 3+2 (level 3 charge), 112…

1122 (teleport and level 2 charge), f12…

Etc.

These are just examples. You can do lots of stuff like this. It makes it possible to get around 17-23% meterless with some of these, and in the low-mid 30s with one meter. That’s not necessarily as great as what you can get off of a starter like b2 or 214, but it’s usually superior to poke with the lightning strings if you’re not sure you’re going to hit, so I think this is useful and should be expanded upon.


Now my question: has anyone found some relatively optimal BnB combos off of these lightning strings? I’m trying to optimize damage, but it’s really hard to figure out what the best linker strings are for that. I could use some help. Thanks!

 

[Barrogh]

...but if you hold for only 1, 2, or 3 hits, you recover almost instantly.

I can't believe there's no pressure shenanigans potential, although they may behave differently on block.

Tried TG yesterday, spark range on these stings is just stupid lol.

 

[shoshinsha]

I can't believe there's no pressure shenanigans potential, although they may behave differently on block.

Tried TG yesterday, spark range on these stings is just stupid lol.

There's definitely no pressure potential just from what I described. You're minus on block no matter which string or how long you hold it. However, there IS a pressure use for his chargeable strings that have an optional teleport extension. It basically works like this:

If your opponent blocks a string such as 112 or b112, you have three options to choose from. The first is that you can simply stop the charge at a random time and make them guess when to try to reversal. If you hold the full thing, you may hit them if they're mashy.

But the real gold comes with the extra 2 that causes Raiden to teleport. You can cancel the (b)112 into the second 2 at two possible points. The first point is almost instantly (i.e., you only get one or two ticks of the extra damage), and the second point is after the full (three- or four-tick) charge. This REALLY screws with people's timing, since they have to guess from basically 4 possible end points in the string, all of which have different timing, and all while they're taking substantial chip damage and you're building loads of meter. Even better, if you do the teleport ender of the string, you reverse their controls if they were trying to mash out a reversal.

Now this isn't fool proof. Both of these strings are unsafe on block no matter WHERE you choose to end them (1122 is safest at -9, all the rest are worse). But in addition to the eternal guessing game of the timing and which side you end on, they push back quite far AND you can cancel them at any point into any of several safer specials:

db1: chargeable and dash/run-cancel-able for more mind games and +1 on block after being charged.
EXdb1: +13 to +17 on block, and you can stop it early to put it between you and them if they're far enough away.
EXdb2: 0 on block. Just safe.
df2: -6 on block, but meterless. Only connects off of the first 2 of 1122 or b1122.
EXdf2: Unsafe on block (-13), but armored and grants full combo if you read a reversal.
EXdb3: 0 on block, armored, grants semi-full combo.

I encourage you guys to play around with these shenanigans. They're not at all flawless, but I'm finding them pretty strong nonetheless. There's probably more potential to be found.

 

[Barrogh]

There's definitely no pressure potential just from what I described. You're minus on block no matter which string or how long you hold it.

Point being, you may be minus, but there are so many points where you can cancel these extensions, especially on 112[2] that I'm not sure if it's possible to reliably read/react that and punish accordingly. Not claiming that it's 2~ndc tier of reliable to use this stuff either ofc, but it surprises me that this is absolutely written off from day one.

This often works in other games, and MK doesn't even have stuff like automatic blocking of true blockstrings like SF. Maybe I'm just too bad at FGs to realize how reactable this stuff is, or maybe I don't take ranges into account, but IMO there is some potential for conditioning opponent into allowing you to get a bit more meter/chip with these strings.

Hell, what I am talking about, that's what you are saying anyway

Described ways to convert off that and/or incorporate more moves into that is really nice addition to the plan.

 

[Chaosphere]

What do you mean written off? It's the first week of release. We still barely know anything lol. Who are you accusing of writing thunder god off?

 

[Barrogh]

What do you mean written off? It's the first week of release. We still barely know anything lol. Who are you accusing of writing thunder god off?

I'm not accusing anybody of writing TG off, heh. I just remember how this sort of, uhm, pressure was the first thing I thought of when I've seen leaked TG move list only to be met with "shenanigans is not there" on the release day when either this or general discussion thread was created and I expressed those ideas. That's all I'm alluding too.

To be honest though, a lot of things in my environment will occasionally work regardless of their viability against better people, but I was surprised by that reaction too. And so now that more competent folks are on this, I'm intending to move on and let us see how TG will be played eventually. Sorry if anything I said sounded wrong.

 

[Chaosphere]

No its cool man. Hopefully people don't count anything out this early. We don't know enough about the game to determine really is/isn't viable outside of 2- 3 bar combos lol. Definitely not viable unless it's the end of the round.