Question about X-Rays

[ZeroEffect]

I've been wondering this since the Mk9 days, but can someone explain/justify why X-Rays aren't universally unsafe? Yes, I'm aware that at high level, saving meter for X-Ray is rare. However, I can't understand why a move that breaks armor, has infinite armor, covers a lot of ground, and has an easy enough input to do on reaction, should also be safe on block. Sometimes they're even PLUS.

Shouldn't moves like this, when baited, be fully punishable? Because as it is, there's little risk to throwing them out in a desperate situation. I couldn't imagine if Supers in other games were risk free. (Safe Ultras in Street Fighter? Plus on block Critical Edges in Soul Calibur?)

I dunno, what do you guys think? To me, it just seems to almost encourage random use.

 

[Braindead]

It's because you're spending 3 bars on it. You're spending way too much meter for ~30% damage. Being safe on block sounds fair.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

X-rays have 4 hits of armor if I remember correctly

 

[Tony at Home]

They cost 3 bars of meter. That's a pretty high cost to pay if it's wasted on block.

Being unsafe in MKX is fundamentally different than being unsafe in SFIV. Same with being out of meter. There's far more damaging punishes an opponent can lay on you in MKX as opposed to say Street Fighter or Soul Calibur. It's also a 3 bar meter system as opposed to those others.

For better perspective, I'd bring up Killer Instinct. A ton of moves are safe in the game that should be unsafe anywhere else. Wulfs Shadow Ragged Edge is + on block, so is Jago's Shadow Wind Kick. But it's a 2 bar meter system, and punishes are much more potentially devastating in that game, so it makes sense to give the players more flexibility against risk.

 

[ZeroEffect]

X-rays have 4 hits of armor if I remember correctly

Do they? Even so, what move in the game can beat that out?

It's because you're spending 3 bars on it. You're spending way too much meter for ~30% damage. Being safe on block sounds fair.

Ok sure, but what about when you're down to about that much life? My argument is more about the utility than damage. Of course, this may be dependent on the character as to how much it covers, but take Kung Lao in MK9 for example. I remember one time I played Brady in casuals. We each had less than 20% life, and he had X-Ray. So we both sat there for a good 3 seconds because I couldn't hit him or jump. So I did a stance switch, he reacted to my movement, I blocked the X-Ray, and then he grabbed me for the win. (X-Ray was plus).

 

[ZeroEffect]

They cost 3 bars of meter. That's a pretty high cost to pay if it's wasted on block.

Being unsafe in MKX is fundamentally different than being unsafe in SFIV. Same with being out of meter. There's far more damaging punishes an opponent can lay on you in MKX as opposed to say Street Fighter or Soul Calibur. It's also a 3 bar meter system as opposed to those others.

For better perspective, I'd bring up Killer Instinct. A ton of moves are safe in the game that should be unsafe anywhere else. Wulfs Shadow Ragged Edge is + on block, so is Jago's Shadow Wind Kick. But it's a 2 bar meter system, and punishes are much more potentially devastating in that game, so it makes sense to give the players more flexibility against risk.

This makes the most sense under that perspective. The KI point is definitely valid given their combo system and potential damage output.

 

[Braindead]

Do they? Even so, what move in the game can beat that out?


Ok sure, but what about when you're down to about that much life? My argument is more about the utility than damage. Of course, this may be dependent on the character as to how much it covers, but take Kung Lao in MK9 for example. I remember one time I played Brady in casuals. We each had less than 20% life, and he had X-Ray. So we both sat there for a good 3 seconds because I couldn't hit him or jump. So I did a stance switch, he reacted to my movement, I blocked the X-Ray, and then he grabbed me for the win. (X-Ray was plus).

I think Sub-Zero's xray in MK9 was -3 on block.

Either way, it's just a part of the meter management. He was able to save 3 bars, so he had the upper hand.

 

[ZeroEffect]

I think Sub-Zero's xray in MK9 was -3 on block.

Either way, it's just a part of the meter management. He was able to save 3 bars, so he had the upper hand.

Oh nah, he was playing Kung Lao. He had dropped Sub at this point.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

watch MK9 Final round 17 Grand Final (SonicFox Mileena vs Waffles Smoke), watch the last round. Smoke's xray is the worst in that game (being both slow as fuck and very punishable on block). That's why everyone needs safe xray otherwise it will cost some of us the tournament
I think everyone in MKX can do a 1 bar combo that does more damage than their xray. So it's reasonable to be safe after spending so much resource on a crap reward

 

[ZeroEffect]

watch MK9 Final round 17 Grand Final (SonicFox Mileena vs Waffles Smoke), watch the last round. Smoke's xray is the worst in that game (being both slow as fuck and very punishable on block). That's why everyone needs safe xray otherwise it will cost some of us the tournament
I think everyone in MKX can do a 1 bar combo that does more damage than their xray. So it's reasonable to be safe after spending so much resource on a crap reward

Lol true. Still, given everything X-Rays beat out, I can't say 30+% is *crap* reward. Yes there are 40~50% combos for less meter, but 35% or so is still a third of your remaining lifebar. That could be the game winning move, so the threat of it coming out is a mindgame in itself.

 

[RM Ree]

@ZeroEffect Grandmaster Sub can break some x-rays with a corner set up.

Vs. Johnny Cage, corner, any combo ending in njp, jip, f12 > clone, d4 xx slide will break JC's Kasting Kall if he uses it to wake up. D4 shreds the first hit, clone shreds the second, slide hits clean.

They only have 2 hits of armor unless it's a special case where they have less, more, or become hit invulnerable ( SZ Deep Freeze parry will stop most other x rays, Goro typically has more armor).

 

[ZeroEffect]

@ZeroEffect Grandmaster Sub can break some x-rays with a corner set up.

Vs. Johnny Cage, corner, any combo ending in njp, jip, f12 > clone, d4 xx slide will break JC's Bring it On if he uses it to wake up. D4 shreds the first hit, clone shreds the second, slide hits clean.

They only have 2 hits of armor unless it's a special case where they have less, more, or become hit invulnerable ( SZ Deep Freeze parry will stop most other x rays, Goro typically has more armor).

Interesting. Because I've definitely blown through Jacqui's Machine guns with Jacqui's own X-Ray. I wonder if maybe everyone has a different amount.

 

[BlackJackSnack]

Yeah if I spend 3 bars I better be safe

 

[DFC]

I'd honestly try to make the case that all X-Rays should be advantageous on block. I mean, I am spending 3 bars. I'm not saying they should be +20 or anything.

Actually, I am saying that. X-Rays should be VERY advantageous on block.

 

[buyacushun]

I can see the OP's point. But my view is to design the system differently where X-rays are actually useful for those 3 bars outside of a few exceptions (Green arrow resets). I think it'd be cool instead of having an element to the game that's seen as useless 90% of the time.

 

[RM Ree]

It depends on the character a bit too I guess. Kitana has a good 50/50 that leads into x-ray, which is nice since you can get past breakers. I thinks that's where the value in most of these moves lies, it not only uses your meter by essentially disables the opponents.

 

[Kingshootahz]

Nerf xrays they are too OP especially since they are soo telegraphable and blockable nerf them shits

 

[Schuyler]

with cassie I can potentially get 78% with 3 bars if they guess wrong every time and If they dont I have a spare bar. Using an x-ray for a character is almost always a bad idea. with 3 bars brakers cost 2, if you want to wake up you need meter. To get in or near the 40% range with most characters you need a bar. I think all X-rays should be plus 5 on block. For 3 bars you should have to eat a mixup.

 

[skater11]

Gunslinger Erron black can beat out a handful of X-rays with his stance3(the Low shots)

 

[Vithar]

Safe X-ray?
Kabal's one in MK9 was unsafe and doo doo on Block.
I think it all depends on the character , some need to be safe , some not ... some can combo and some cannot.

 

[ZeroEffect]

I think a lot of you missed my point. Maybe that's my fault.
I do get that they spend 3 bars, and that it doesn't do 50%, (most of the time). But I'm mainly talking about how powerful the option is in its utility. Some of them cover a wide section of the screen and blow through most offense. So if you are playing a match, and have lost about 70% of your lifebar, the threat of an X-Ray is a legit option. I was just trying to understand why the opponent should be risk free if you managed to bait their X-ray.

@Tony at Home has already given the best counter argument for why this game kind of allows this kind of thing.

 

[Marte]

That's why they're banned in tournaments.