Discussion Patches overwhelmingly help NRS games not hurt them

[DarkPage]

i can't tell if I'm just tired and unable to process everything or if this new talking point that the Injustice patches didn't patch enough as a knock against patching makes no sense.

Thinking hes saying that the patches that happened werent thoroughly thought out enough, therefore leaving "needed" fixes out. And he is attributing that to quick knee-jerk patches instead of allowing enough time to evaluate the real problems. With less patches but with more time put into them.

 

[dookieagain]

Vanilla Sagat reigned for two years (arcade, plus console release) and SFIV fared fine.

SA2 Chun has never been nerfed and 3rd Strike is still going strong in Japan, Europe and parts of Asia.

Cable, Magneto, Storm and Sentinel were never nerfed and Marvel vs. Capcom 2 has a storied decade of competitive play.

People always use this argument and as someone who has been in the scene since SFII this is kinda crap. (YES I AM OLD)

First off Vanilla Sagat, while amazing, was not a game destroying character. Even then he forced anyone playing certain characters to have counter picks. He was oppressive sure, but to see a Sagat who breaks the game utterly we need O.Sagat, who by his very existence makes many characters unviable in Super Turbo.

Either way though, horrible balance doesn't mean people won't play a game, but it doesn't do the game any favors.

SF3 and MvC2 existed during the dark ages when options were very limited. Second SF3 has such strong defensive and universal mechanics (Parry mostly but also universally high damage) that good reads can win a match for anyone. You're still talking about a game that had Evos with 6 Chuns in the top 16 and that in long sets has 3 viable characters.

MvC2 is actually the ultimate example of why we should patch games. You have four viable characters in a game with 52 characters. Yeah people play it competitively, but you're talking about having 8% of a game's cast viable. That's awful.

MvC2 is so broken that you have a character who has a reliable infinite into guardbreak that guarantees a full team kill on a touch(Iron Man), and he isn't even considered competitively viable. Do you get how dumb that is?

Basically you're holding up as examples a few games where the only option in high level play was to pick a new character. Do you like that? Do you like losing at the character select screen? Is that really what you want? Cause your examples reinforce that you'd like to have a screen full of characters where 1 in 10 is actually an option.

I honestly prefer smaller cast games where I at least know that all the characters are useful. (KI+Skullgirls) But I think hoping for more than 3 viable characters in a game with 30 characters and 3 variations for each isn't unreasonable.

 

[Scoot Magee]

You can't backdash or armor through if he tries to loop it?

No it totally jails from the first to the 2nd 214. After that he dosent have enough stamina to fb and run cancel a 2nd time but the fb into dash cancel still leaves him at advantage.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Also when I am able to win a tourny match with just chip from a trident rush, u know that a change for that move (and other moves) should have been made haha.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Thinking hes saying that the patches that happened werent thoroughly thought out enough, therefore leaving "needed" fixes out. And he is attributing that to quick knee-jerk patches instead of allowing enough time to evaluate the real problems. With less patches but with more time put into them.

Yep this is what I am saying, but ppl on here try to take that out of context as meaning (so u saying blank should have stayed for a whole year?), smh .

 

[crosstalk]

I have always thought the injustice patches left out many things that could have helped with the "balance" that people want so much. I know for sure when I see that aquamans trident rush wasn't nerfed or that MMH tele never got nerfed, and etc. That there are a multitude of things that were left out in patches

I think this goes back to what Theo said about game life cycles. Im sure NRS wouldnt have mind patching mk9 or injustice again, but like any company, they have deadlines and priorities to attend to, and eventually their older products go out of support. By 2012 they were focused more on injustice development and by 2013 it was mkx

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I think this goes back to what Theo said about game life cycles. Im sure NRS wouldnt have mind patching mk9 or injustice again, but like any company, they have deadlines and priorities to attend to, and eventually their older products go out of support. By 2012 they were focused more on injustice development and by 2013 it was mkx

Yep they have a model they follow and that is respectable as they have to do what they have to do for business. I think this time around they do not plan to patch things out unless it is a bug or etc. For a bit

 

[Reauxbot]

Also when I am able to win a tourny match with just chip from a trident rush, u know that a change for that move (and other moves) should have been made haha.

Was there an actual match this happened? Im sure i missed this one

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Was there an actual match this happened? Im sure i missed this one

Look up MIT vs Sajam for injustice or look up SCR 2014 injustice and u will find it haha, so hilarious. I am ashamed I won a match like that

 

[Barrogh]

Yep this is what I am saying, but ppl on here try to take that out of context as meaning (so u saying blank should have stayed for a whole year?), smh .

For the record, I did not try to put anything in your mouth, for example, I just wasn't sure why you put OP on blast while actually (I thought) agreeing with him on principle.

Latest post clarified that, but it wasn't clear from the start to be honest.

 

[Slymind]

Vanilla Sagat reigned for two years (arcade, plus console release) and SFIV fared fine.

SA2 Chun has never been nerfed and 3rd Strike is still going strong in Japan, Europe and parts of Asia.

Cable, Magneto, Storm and Sentinel were never nerfed and Marvel vs. Capcom 2 has a storied decade of competitive play.

Arcade in modern gaming shouldn't count, arcade is niche and the awareness is inevitably lower, than to have the game on consoles.

Those games you listed were not only really popular, but the competitve scene back then was way different and had less games to compete with them for space, seeing how EVO was in the past, and how EVO is today, it's come a long way, there are many other fighters out there with a nice degree of polish. 3rd strike and Marvel 2 were extremely unbalanced and got away with it, try and release a game today where 3 or 4 characters dominate the scene with no room for anything else, and see how long it will last, the bar is raising as gaming advances, many things that were accepted in the past, won't be accepted now.

I'm not saying they should rush to patch, but, using Third Strike and Marvel 2 as a example in today's environment is a bad idea, Marvel 3 which was the sucessor, didn't get away with it, i recall an huge amount of complaint due Phoenix and Wesker, because apparently they were dominating, and they even had to change the "X-Factor".

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

For the record, I did not try to put anything in your mouth, for example, I just wasn't sure why you put OP on blast while actually (I thought) agreeing with him on principle.

Latest post clarified that, but it wasn't clear from the start to be honest.

I wasn't pointing u out trust me haha, I was talking in general.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

Obviously patches should be done. PC gamers have been getting patches in games since the 90's at least, and it just helps it refine the game.

They just need to take more time like has been said, Patch all the bugs out so we can actually START playing the game for real. Like we don't even know if OSing is going to work the same for much longer and stuff like that?

Then after we have an actually complete game in our hands we can REALLY start talking balance after several months of play all over.

Also, this'll never happen, but what happened to games having unlockable characters with in-game currency? MvC 2 had points and you had to grind to get 'em, but people still did it and it was awesome when you got 'em all. I would LOVE if DLC characters in this game were available in the krypt. Even if they costed like 100k koins or something, I'd still rather have the option to grind towers to unlock them then being forced to pay for full cast. (even though I only make about 500 koins per average fight win in towers)

 

[wsj515]

Yep this is what I am saying, but ppl on here try to take that out of context as meaning (so u saying blank should have stayed for a whole year?), smh .

People aren't taking you out of context, you just aren't explaining yourself well. What DarkPage wrote makes sense but is completely different than what you've been saying, even though that's what you might have meant.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

People aren't taking you out of context, you just aren't explaining yourself well. What DarkPage wrote makes sense but is completely different than what you've been saying, even though that's what you might have meant.

I am not explaining myself correctly? Lmao how about ppl aren't comprehending me correctly? Also u haven't been around to see ppl take my opinions out of context.

 

[Thierry Henry]

Just save the fabled Fourth/Final patch till after the final DLC release.

ZUT ALORS!

 

[dookieagain]

Also, this'll never happen, but what happened to games having unlockable characters with in-game currency? MvC 2 had points and you had to grind to get 'em, but people still did it and it was awesome when you got 'em all. I would LOVE if DLC characters in this game were available in the krypt. Even if they costed like 100k koins or something, I'd still rather have the option to grind towers to unlock them then being forced to pay for full cast. (even though I only make about 500 koins per average fight win in towers)

As an arcade owner and tournament organizer this is an awful idea. It's bad enough that I had to beat story four times for four setups to get Shinnok. Don't make me grind for hours like in Smash Bros just to have a tournament ready setup. Or do what DOA5 does and have a no achievement tournament mode with everything unlocked.

 

[SoundsLikePAUSE]

Also, this'll never happen, but what happened to games having unlockable characters with in-game currency? MvC 2 had points and you had to grind to get 'em, but people still did it and it was awesome when you got 'em all. I would LOVE if DLC characters in this game were available in the krypt. Even if they costed like 100k koins or something, I'd still rather have the option to grind towers to unlock them then being forced to pay for full cast. (even though I only make about 500 koins per average fight win in towers)

It seems only the anime/air dash fighters are the only ones still doing things like this. I ain't got time for that but it's definitely nice to have the option. And gives a real old school vibe to the game.

 

[DarkPage]

Yep this is what I am saying, but ppl on here try to take that out of context as meaning (so u saying blank should have stayed for a whole year?), smh .

figured you could use some help wording it i got you dude lol

 

[wsj515]

I am not explaining myself correctly? Lmao how about ppl aren't comprehending me correctly? Also u haven't been around to see ppl take my opinions out of context.

That's for you to figure out, you just literally haven't said the same thing as Dark Page, I am just interpreting what I read. Also I've been lurking since mk9 release so yeah I've seen it.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

As an arcade owner and tournament organizer this is an awful idea. It's bad enough that I had to beat story four times for four setups to get Shinnok. Don't make me grind for hours like in Smash Bros just to have a tournament ready setup. Or do what DOA5 does and have a no achievement tournament mode with everything unlocked.

Yes it would certainly be terrible, but I said as an option, so you could just pay for the DLC chars still if you want.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

That's for you to figure out, you just literally haven't said the same thing as Dark Page, I am just interpreting what I read. Also I've been lurking since mk9 release so yeah I've seen it.

I dnt think u have seen it or you would get what I am saying haha. But that is besides the point, @DarkPage got me

 

[Shaazzyam]

lmao

u guise patches are bad because ya they helped some characters but it's not like every matchup became 5-5 and game wasnt absolutely perfect it didnt even fix my car or give me free money. Like come on

 

[Barrogh]

Yes it would certainly be terrible, but I said as an option, so you could just pay for the DLC chars still if you want.

Great, just some more bucks extracted from TOs instead of forcing them to grind... I mean, how's that still a good idea?
The problem is that having such unlockable characters to be paid DLCs isn't really a way to get paid DLC for free, I rather see it as a way to sell you something you've paid for already again - as paid DLC.

I mean, I get that some of you guys like that feel of unlocking new stuff and all, but how about we do it in a way that doesn't cause headaches to those who don't? Like, I dunno, you just don't use that Shinnok until you're done with story mode instead of him being locked for everybody or something?

Thanks to whoever was behind that decision that PC version has him unlocked from the get go and I don't have to be bothered with storymode until I want to.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

Oh I totally agree, I think DLC characters is bullshit to begin with. I want them in the game, and if they HAVE to make them special somehow, then make us unlock them. But don't put out a game, riddled with bugs, and then start trying to make people pay for new characters a couple weeks after it's released. Either put them in the game that ships or save them for a bigger expansion or something if you want to extend the cast. That's what Street fighter has always done, and it's shitty in it's own way, but it's still better then $5 per character DLC characters.

edit: and it'll never end, it's how it's just going to work going forward, and know why? because people pay..I mean if I was running a business and I came up with the idea to make people pay for something they normally wouldn't or had been just expected of me for free... and then they fell for it? You better believe I'd keep doing it.