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Off-Topic Discussion for the day: Should jobs that provide full Health benefits have requirements?

TH3DISTURBED1

"Never say 'never'
The problem with the way the health care system is in the US is people are not NEGATIVELY impacted when they have it but don't take care of themselves.

If you live on the bad side of town, you can bet other forms of insurance will be higher. With a speeding ticket or two, premiums increase dramatically.

Why shouldn't we have an incentive to get healthy and reduce the costs?

Here's an example of what we should be doing in this country. The problem isn't the health care system, it's the obesity epidemic: people making poor choices and pushing the costs onto other people.
 

Deftonesrc

Electrical Engineering bitch!
I disagree, healthcare is NOT a human right. What your saying is that you have a right which SOMEONE ELSE needs to provide. There is no other right like that; no one needs to provide you with whatever you need to exercise free speech, for example. Your right insofar as health goes is to be able to make informed decisions on what kind of life style you are living. You have a right to eat if you want, but it does not force me to provide you with food. you need to get your food yourself.



But what you're suggesting deprives people of what they have rightfully earned, and people cannot forcefully deprive people of their rights to benefit another. A socialist is fine with that because individuals are not important, society is looked at as a whole. That's not the thinking this country was founded on though, and socialism tends not to work out very well.



I drink on weekends, but I'm not addicted, so the fact that someone could be addicted is irrelevant. And this will sound cold, but quite frankly someone else's addiction is their problem, not mine. I have enough of my own problems, I don't want to be dragged into others issues. And your point about addition is irrelevant as I've said, most obese people are not addicted, they don't know know, care or both about being healthy.



So be it. Honestly, I'm tired of this culture of excuses we're in. I don't see many people worrying about helping me fix my problems. And quite frankly, I'm ok with that. As a free, responsible citizen of my country, I will figure out my own issues.
Will you marry me?
 

Crathen

Death is my business
I work at McD's, so I think I can offer a bit of insight here on price. 2 people both getting a value meal often costs about 10-12 dollars. If you walk into a grocery store, do you know what you can buy with 10-12 dollars? You could get any variety of frozen vegetable, a whole chicken or chicken breasts frozen, a loaf of bread, and a bunch of bananas, for starters. I don't know about Italy but right here in the middle of Illinois it's cheaper to eat in than to visit a fast food joint
Iirc last time i went to Mcdonalds a Big Mac was around 5 euro.

But you're right on that , my McD reference was for junk food rather than McD.

Now i don't know the prices in US , but it doesnt take much to see how you're gaining more calories ( and costs less ) with let's say bread ad ham than with salad / tomatos or fresh fish.

And you can totally buy all you need for hamburgers at a grocery for way less than a fast food.

Food to fry ( potatos , chicken and so on ) is cheap and has lots of calories too , snacks too.

Problem it isn't healthy , but it is cheaper than buying healthy food.

I also think US does drink lots of sodas... sodas have lotsa calories and are pretty cheap.

TLDR it's cheaper to buy unhealthy stuff than healthy , unhealthy stuff has more calories wich gives you more energy / hunger satisfaction. And Lbsh what would you rather eat a good big ole steak w oil and salt or some codfish?Junk food tastes better.

And this is not even counting frozen food , fruit , driving every week to the store or actually having to spend time to cooking / preparing the healthy food wich simply some people lack time for.
 

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
Not everyone has access to a good $$$ job , you shouldn't deny a human basic right to LIVE decently. Do you have no heart?
I won't get into a lot of specifics on this topic. Too much to cover. But my post was simply addressing the statement I quoted.

The guy said healthcare is a right. I opine that it's a service.
 

Killphil

A prop on the stage of life.
I still don't buy this. See my post above.
That's for value meals. Go to the dollar menu and you have "food" for 6+ people. It's always cheaper to eat in, as you're not paying for preparation/service, just the ingredients. Healthy food eating out costs more than unhealthy, but buddy up there said that already. (bottled water costs more than bottled pop for some reason)

Same principle applies to anything. Do I spend $485 at Sears so they can fix my car brakes, or do I spend $50 on parts and throw my older brother a few bucks to come over and help me fix it?
 

Art

Grave_Intent
you can afford healthcare now...its just not as good as it was pre reform
Fun fact..I was turned down by Obama care... go figure. This is NO lie, I was also rejected by Medicade as well, even though my daughter is on Medicade. Simply because I'm 43 white and male. Theres no other explanation. I'm also a vet but they don't seem to see it that way, at least here in Texas.
 

Crathen

Death is my business
I won't get into a lot of specifics on this topic. Too much to cover. But my post was simply addressing the statement I quoted.

The guy said healthcare is a right. I opine that it's a service.
Ok on that we can agree , but nonetheless it's an undeniable service for human rights.
 

juicepouch

blink-182 enthusiast
That's for value meals. Go to the dollar menu and you have "food" for 6+ people. It's always cheaper to eat in, as you're not paying for preparation/service, just the ingredients. Healthy food eating out costs more than unhealthy, but buddy up there said that already. (bottled water costs more than bottled pop for some reason)

Same principle applies to anything. Do I spend $485 at Sears so they can fix my car brakes, or do I spend $50 on parts and throw my older brother a few bucks to come over and help me fix it?
yeah I was going off of what I see most from families that come in, it's usually the broke teenagers/college students that come in and all order like 25 mcChickens and value cheeseburgers lol.
 

Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
What if the company provided
Monthly memberships to gyms and health clubs

Everyone wins
I don't think it's right to require certain behavior for people to get their benefits, when they are already gained by their commitment to full-time employment. Like the gym thing. It would be nice if we could all go to the gym 3 times a week, but that's kind of living in a bubble of middle-upper class mindset. Some people work TWO full time jobs and take 3 hour bus rides just to barely support a family. These people are too exhausted to be pumping iron after work.
 

aj1701

Noob
The cheapest food is the worst food for you. Poor people eat dollar menu all day every day.
You're a bit out of touch. Fresh vegetables are cheaper per meal than McDonald's . If you only had a normal cheeseburger and small fry from the dollar menu, even if it was for every meal of the day, you'd actually be in danger of starving. Plus its the dollar and more menu now, so your cheaper argument is very strong. I don't dispute poor people eat from the dollar menu, but its out of ignorance not necessarily. There's a strong correlation between education and fitness.
 

chemist4hire

I Got Guiled
Are you are asking if healthy employees should subsidize the cost of insurance for irresponsible, unhealthy people?

How do you feel about what happens currently with many employer based health care systems, where single folks or married folks with working spouses have to subsidize the health insurance cost of other employees' children and non working spouses?
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Iirc last time i went to Mcdonalds a Big Mac was around 5 euro.

But you're right on that , my McD reference was for junk food rather than McD.

Now i don't know the prices in US , but it doesnt take much to see how you're gaining more calories ( and costs less ) with let's say bread ad ham than with salad / tomatos or fresh fish.

And you can totally buy all you need for hamburgers at a grocery for way less than a fast food.

Food to fry ( potatos , chicken and so on ) is cheap and has lots of calories too , snacks too.

Problem it isn't healthy , but it is cheaper than buying healthy food.

I also think US does drink lots of sodas... sodas have lotsa calories and are pretty cheap.

TLDR it's cheaper to buy unhealthy stuff than healthy , unhealthy stuff has more calories wich gives you more energy / hunger satisfaction. And Lbsh what would you rather eat a good big ole steak w oil and salt or some codfish?Junk food tastes better.

And this is not even counting frozen food , fruit , driving every week to the store or actually having to spend time to cooking / preparing the healthy food wich simply some people lack time for.
Same thing in Greece but we have euro/dollar menu offers which is the basic 300-400 cal burger for 1 euro
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I don't think it's right to require certain behavior for people to get their benefits, when they are already gained by their commitment to full-time employment. Like the gym thing. It would be nice if we could all go to the gym 3 times a week, but that's kind of living in a bubble of middle-upper class mindset. Some people work TWO full time jobs and take 3 hour bus rides just to barely support a family. These people are too exhausted to be pumping iron after work.
I find it hard to believe people cannot spare 3 hours each week to work out.
 

aj1701

Noob
So you're saying everyone can be indipendent healthcare-wise?Give everyone a good $$$ job. Does this match reality? Nope.
I'm saying people can control their own behavior and make healthy choices, and can also choose to work hard to get a job that offers health care benefits (and pay premiums deductibles whatever). But a lot of people just want a handout via entitlement programs.

"Our" healthcare system doesn't put a burden only on one to find a job w health insurance , everyone pays a right fee for a service everyone has access to. If they're not satisfied w it there are even better and quicker healthcare services in change of more money.
Yes, I know how yours works. People that actually work help pay the bill for those that aren't working; healthy people that work help pay for people that don't work. It creates incentives to NOT be healthy or NOT to work, or both. Multiple studies have shown that if people feel "safe" doing something, they'll be more reckless doing that thing as they believe they are safe. Your system makes people feel safe not working not being healthy, so that's what they end up doing. Its not sustainable though, as soon the unhealthy will outnumber the healthy, and your health care costs will skyrocket. Also due to the control on what doctors / researchers can make, there is less incentive for them to do so.

Your single experience is bound to happen for a plethora of reasons , doesn't mean US healthcare is overall better than "ours".
The US healthcare system does need reform, but forcing healthy hardworking people to pay for everyone else isn't the answer. The fact is that people all over the whole come here because we do have the best treatment options, which are a result the framework of our country.

I don't even wanna get into the economic discussion.
Good idea.

Try reaching 3000-4000 calories per day ( heavy physical work ) eating "healty" without spending more money that you would w a mcdonald calories bomb known as hamburgers.
Your caloric needs seem way off; the only people I know of that need 4000 calories a day are bodybuilders, the really big guys. 2000 is what the government says are normal caloric needs per day. And if you really do need that much energy, pasta is super cheap and LOADED with calories. One box has 1,200 calories for a pound, and costs only a couple of dollars. Of course you'd want protein too, and you can get a pound of ground turkey (93% lean) for $3.99. That's another 600 calories right there bringing the total to 1,800 (and remember, you're only shooting for 2000). So that's maybe $6, and you can get a can of spaghetti sauce for $0.99. So there's no reason you need calories form McDonalds (and that's unhealthy due to the high fat / saturated fat and salt content). Notice that even bodybuilders that need the amount of calories you suggest don't get it by McDonalds.

A balanced diet has many "expensive" foods , vegetables , fish, good meat , dairy products , fruit , cereals and so on and you gotta vary most days. It's not easy HERE in Italy where we have so many healthy foods / diets , how can it be easier in US.
My sister has a very healthy diet and she is Vegan, so that's no eggs, dairy, meat, or fish, or anything that's not plant based. And you also need to realize that food is very cheap here in the US, so yes it is very easy to eat healthy and cheaply here. There are a bunch of nutritionists here that say that's actually out biggest issue, is that our food is so cheap so we buy and eat more. You can even eat McDonalds once in a while if you do it in moderation and sane portion sizes, and don't sit on your ass all day.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
American College of Sports Medicine activity recommendations:

200 min of moderate intensity activity per week for weight maintenance
250 min of moderate intensity activity per week for weight loss

It can be difficult to do this every week. I'll bet 90% of this site doesn't meet these standards and is considered "inactive" by definition.