Nightwolf Matchup Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Nightwolf' started by Konqrr, Aug 7, 2011.

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  1. Carnage

    Carnage New Member

    Dont understand Kitana being 4-6 for nightwolf, fans are useless and bait out the airjump which is easily punished

    and i believe sz is 6-4 for nightwolf. slide is the only worry but is easily punished in my experience
  2. salvificblood

    salvificblood Worst Sub-Zero Ever Premium Supporter

    Johnny Cage beats him.
  3. BigWillie54

    BigWillie54 Member

    quick answer: anyone with a good rushdown game = bad matchup (but not that bad)

    anyone that doesnt gets rape....badly.

    its obviously more complicated than thats how i feel about it.
  4. salvificblood

    salvificblood Worst Sub-Zero Ever Premium Supporter

    Sub only goes 5-5 with Nightwolf when he's played aggressively. Baiting reflects with regular iceball and then hitting Nightwolf with ex ice only works the first couple of times. He has to take Nightwolf to the corner and beat him down because Nightwolf has natural counters to Sub-Zero at range. Sub loses if he tries to sit there and throw ice or turtle.
  5. Skirtsftw

    Skirtsftw Member

    Any Sub-Zero player who doesn't know when to rush down sucks ass.
  6. Skirtsftw

    Skirtsftw Member

    The thing is, most sub players (including myself) are uncomfortable jumping, maybe its just the methodical nature of that character, and when playing defence, (hiding behind clone) never think to jump the lighting. Any good nw will fuck you up with some serious lighting/reflect mind games. Rushing him down is also hard because nw is gonna dash axe or shoulder your ass, and you can be punished while putting up an ice clone and even if you block it that ex shoulder is hard to to punish, so he gets in pretty easily too. I feel like this match is definately in nw favor but then again I am no pro.
  7. AK L0rdoftheFLY

    AK L0rdoftheFLY Yea I killed Dick Grayson...so what? Premium Supporter

    LOTF Nightwolf matchup list post patch!(I may change it as I do more testing but feel free to comment)

    Total=149
    Avg 4.97 vs each character

    5-5 vs Baraka
    4-6 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
    4-6 vs Cyrax
    6-4 vs Ermac
    5-5vs Freddy Krueger
    6-4 vs Jade
    5-5 vs Jax
    5-5 vs Johnny Cage
    4-6 vs Kabal
    5-5 vs Kano
    5-5 vs Kenshi
    4-6 vs Kitana
    5-5 vs Kung Lao
    4-6 vs Liu Kang
    4-6 vs Mileena
    5-5 vs Noob Saibot
    6-4 vs Quan Chi
    4-6 vs Raiden
    5-5 vs Rain
    5-5 vs Reptile
    5-5 vs Scorpion
    5-5 vs Sektor
    5-5 vs Shang Tsung
    6-4 vs Sheeva
    6-4 vs Sindel
    5-5 vs Skarlet
    5-5 vs Smoke
    5-5 vs Sonya Blade
    5-5 vs Stryker
    6-4 vs Sub-Zero
  8. shoshinsha

    shoshinsha Active Member

    I agree with most of what you've got there. A few I would question (not because they're necessarily wrong):

    Cyrax: Seems pretty much 5-5 IMO. Cyrax can't really zone or trap with bombs reliably thanks to a combination of reflect, quick forward movement on shoulder (and armor on ex), and unblockable lightning. He can still get (slightly lower) big damage on hit, but his normals aren't that great. My experience has been that ex shoulder in particular blows up Cyrax's game.

    Kitana: Not sure, but I've been hearing that her combos from range are really hurt by the dash nerf.

    Reptile: This has nothing to do with the patch, but I've always felt like NW dominated Reptile. He can counter all projectiles, his normals are way better, and he can really control the ground. I usually have trouble fighting Reptile, but not with Nightwolf.

    Noob: I feel Nightwolf is hurt the least by Noob's new at-range 50/50, thanks to reflect and armor, but that's me. I see this being 6-4 for NW.

    Smoke: Not sure I see NW's advantage here given Smoke's ability to run away. The only risk is if he gets corner trapped by NW.

    Liu Kang: I've never faced a lot of LK's, so I'm mainly just wondering if you'd explain your rating.
  9. AK L0rdoftheFLY

    AK L0rdoftheFLY Yea I killed Dick Grayson...so what? Premium Supporter

    Ok let me start with cyrax, kitana, noob and smoke. NW has trouble getting in on people who can get away and sthey away. Cyrax, and kitana fall into this category while noob and smoke do not.

    Cyrax nets don't get reflected and if you stay on the ground to reflect a net, a bomb will find it's way to you. Eh shoulder does help nw in the matchup but relyng on always having meter is a no go because nw builds 90% of his meter by chip damage. Without meter this is a loss. Nw should also save meter for breakers otherwise 50-70% of life is gone with one combo. It may even be worse than 6-4 but I'm being generous.

    With kitana, she can stay away with the best of them and ex lift or eh cutter hen nw gets close. Very tough match up.

    Noob plays keep away like cyrax but with out the damage. Hence the 5-5 I think it was 6-4 but not anymore. Also reflect doesnt help cause they don't go back toward noob. You will more likely miss a reflect first.

    Smoke has his teleport but a smoke bomb isn't effective vs nw. Nw shoulder makes him hard to hit with a bomb. That makes smoke rely on getting in close to do damage where nw has the edge.

    reptile. I'm basing this matchup based on my matches with Chris G and Clint. Both VERY legit players. They have the slight edge over me. It comes down to options and reptile just has more of them. Remember, don't base your opinion based on your own matches, base it on both characters played at the highest possible level.

    Kang. Based on matches with ATL Redd. B312 dominates the shoulder and has more range and priority than f3. Nw has trouble getting him off once in and he can out zone nw with instant air fire balls that go above nw head.
  10. shoshinsha

    shoshinsha Active Member

    Hmmm... ok, well I agree about Kitana if she didn't take a big hit in the patch. She's always been tough for me, as well. Smoke and Kang I can't really argue with due to lack of experience with good players. The Noob matchup I can see being slow, but I have a hard time seeing how Noob can win without having to work way harder than NW.

    Cyrax is risky, but you only (haha, "only") eat about 50% now, and that's not counting breakers. Also, I feel NW has a big advantage close up, and Cyrax isn't mobile enough to get back to full-screen easily. Just my experience, of course.

    As for Reptile, I'll just have to concede to your experience playing two of the best Reptiles out there. My PERSONAL experience has been to counterpick WITH Nightwolf when I'm having trouble beating a good Reptile, but that's me. I feel like Reptile's game is too ground-based, while NW controls the ground like almost nobody else.

    Appreciate your writeups. This forum doesn't get enough discussion.
  11. AK L0rdoftheFLY

    AK L0rdoftheFLY Yea I killed Dick Grayson...so what? Premium Supporter

    No I appreciate your write ups! Really thanks for your input.

    The problem with reptile also is that I have no way to stop the dash unless I block it. Nw gets full 40-50% on blocked dash but a wiffed dash gives reptile pressure ability. If I try to shoulder and rep dashes, they go through each other which gives rep advantage with his instant recovery. Not to mention rep builds meter all day which always gives rep a breaker.
  12. shoshinsha

    shoshinsha Active Member

    The breaker thing I can totally sympathize with. Drives me nuts how often he gets one. I'm curious what you find Reptile does on a shoulder/dash "crossover" that's problematic. While he obviously has advantage, it's pretty small. I can't recall anyone who's capitalized on it. I think NW has advantage at both far and close ranges in this matchup, while Rep might have the advantage at mid-range. His projectiles are pretty useless unless he's close enough that you can't react to them, and his normals can't even compare to 1221 and f31. If I do find myself struggling against Reptile, I can usually solve the problem by moving closer and pressuring or further away and turtling a bit. His one saving grace is that bloody dash. I've had limited success spacing it out with hatchet (normal and ex), but I've spent a lot of time looking for some kind of hard counter to it with only limited success.
  13. AK L0rdoftheFLY

    AK L0rdoftheFLY Yea I killed Dick Grayson...so what? Premium Supporter

    It may be debatable. I need to work on the match up more...I'll look into this some more and think about changing it.
  14. AK L0rdoftheFLY

    AK L0rdoftheFLY Yea I killed Dick Grayson...so what? Premium Supporter

    LOTF Nightwolf matchup list post patch! Updated!

    Total=149
    Avg 4.97 vs each character

    5-5 vs Baraka
    4-6 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
    4-6 vs Cyrax
    6-4 vs Ermac
    5-5vs Freddy Krueger
    6-4 vs Jade
    5-5 vs Jax
    5-5 vs Johnny Cage
    4-6 vs Kabal
    5-5 vs Kano
    5-5 vs Kenshi
    4-6 vs Kitana
    5-5 vs Kung Lao
    4-6 vs Liu Kang
    4-6 vs Mileena
    5-5 vs Noob Saibot
    6-4 vs Quan Chi
    4-6 vs Raiden
    5-5 vs Rain
    5-5 vs Reptile
    5-5 vs Scorpion
    5-5 vs Sektor
    5-5 vs Shang Tsung
    6-4 vs Sheeva
    6-4 vs Sindel
    5-5 vs Skarlet
    5-5 vs Smoke
    5-5 vs Sonya Blade
    5-5 vs Stryker
    6-4 vs Sub-Zero
  15. Mosp

    Mosp Well-Known Member

    4-6 Kabal? Can you explain this matchup cuz I feel like Kabal has every advantage and it feels more like 3-7 to me.
  16. AK L0rdoftheFLY

    AK L0rdoftheFLY Yea I killed Dick Grayson...so what? Premium Supporter

    dash d1 under iaf. Get in and stay in. Push him to wall, bait spins, punish. D1 axe inbetween DC pressure.

    It isn't in nightwolfs favor but I think 4-6 is fair.
  17. Mosp

    Mosp Well-Known Member

    Don't his saws push back a little when they are blocked?
  18. AK L0rdoftheFLY

    AK L0rdoftheFLY Yea I killed Dick Grayson...so what? Premium Supporter

    Yes...but saws don't make or break this matchup. I can also absorb saws if I have to.
  19. Mosp

    Mosp Well-Known Member

    They definitely do not make or break this match but I feel like by the time you get in by d1 dashing he's just going to dash cancel and start his pressure so I feel like the whole matchup is just waiting for Kabal to make a mistake in either his zoning or pressure. NW hardly gets the opportunity to apply any pressure towards Kabal, idk though maybe you will prove me wrong at Final Round :)
  20. AK L0rdoftheFLY

    AK L0rdoftheFLY Yea I killed Dick Grayson...so what? Premium Supporter

    Kabal 9/10 times will cancel the spin. Just anticipate with d1 axe.
  21. Pig Of The Hut

    Pig Of The Hut Kryptonian General - Kneel Before Me

    wait are you coming?
  22. Mosp

    Mosp Well-Known Member

    I'll be at SCR for sure but it's too soon for me to tell if I'll be able to go to Final Round but I would definitely like to go.
  23. Karnage

    Karnage Ancestors give me Strength!!

    how is the sub zero matchup 6-4? lotf can you explain how you tackle this 1?

    and ermac also? punishing TKP at jump distance?
  24. AK L0rdoftheFLY

    AK L0rdoftheFLY Yea I killed Dick Grayson...so what? Premium Supporter

    I have been disputing with many sub zero players about this recently so here it goes. Normally nightwolf has limited options when using his specials. His arrow is risky, his lightning is risky and his shoulder is risky. But when fighting subzero it opens up all NWs options.

    Clone(subs most versatile and most used special) is punished by lightning one eh lightning on reaction
    Ice blast gets reflected and if I'm jump distance away reflect will hit sub and freeze him every time while sub is recovering from his move. Reflect also makes lightning a threat
    Slide...more risky than shoulder

    Now when lightning becomes a threat against a non teleport character, arrows now become a threat. He is jumping to get away from lightning and he now eats an arrow and a shoulder and now I am full screen zoning sub. He has to get in and get me to the corner. If I have meter it is hard to keep NW there. I have armor on eh shoulder to go throu your first clone on reaction and I have eh axe to eat your d4 pressure on wakeup. I have d1 axe which goes through clone without freezing me...and I have lightning if your just gonna stand there.

    For Ermac
    Fireball pressure is moot...reflect wins. Teleport/ground pound = death most times. Ermac has to get in. Problem ermac has is that his sweet spot is just outside of jump distance but NW can punish everything ermac does at that range so it comes down to footsies for ermac...and he does not have good up close footsies...NW has the advantage there. Ermac can't keep up. He also only has one special that gets him out of lightning trap...that's levitate and that's dangerous.

    Hope this was helpful.
  25. Karnage

    Karnage Ancestors give me Strength!!

    more than helpful man. those ideas on the sz matchup sound, in theory really good, i cant wait to try them out over the weekend.

    ermac makes sense, i knew thats how i should of played it, i am just too inpatient and got punished for it.

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