General/Other - Grandmaster New patch removes Some of SZ corner combo & trapping options

[Tom Brady]

Also, Tom, practice what you preach. You condescended to everyone since the day the game came out about not freaking out about their characters, calling a character bad, etc...before "letting the game breathe." Whatever happened to that?

To use your own words, you no longer have the GOD GIVEN RIGHT to trap someone in the corner for eternity. That's OK. Find ways around it. The patch has literally been in place for a few hours.

I'll deal with this just fine.

 

[Qwark28]

I'm assuming you play Jax because of your avatar.
Do you realise that you completely ass fuck sub zero for doing a Klone meterless from anything other than f4?

No, because people are stupid, uninformed and love to complain for their own inadequacies.

Bet you not one of the complainers actually played a high lvl SZ player/.

 

[coolwhip]

I'll deal with this just fine.

Good to hear.

 

[SneakyTortoise]

The only thing I complain about is the players that cry. The truth is that many of these players who are now saying "good", "thank god", etc.. will still get absolutely destroyed and turn around and demand more nerfs.

You guys do not consider the people who cry for nerfs complainers. Yet, you consider those who call out the people who are crying complainers.

Were the people crying for nerfs responsible for these changes? No. They are irrelevant regarding this.

Also, m2dave's thread in support of NOT nerfing the klone was met with overwhelming support by the majority of the community. There is a false narrative being sold that the changes made to sub zero were due to community crying. I'm setting this straight.

For what it's worth, I agree with you that we shouldn't put up with complaining as much as we do.

 

[Zenfluence]

I won't take sides on this but from an objective perspective the minute I saw the changes it looked like every one was something that wasn't working as intended.

I imagine theres the probability some were picked out because they were looking at certain characters harder for whatever reason, but honestly this looks like a list of fixes rather than balance for the sake of directly helping/hurting characters mechanics.

I personally think Eron's mixups need adjusting but I'm confident those things (Kenshi buffs?) Will be comin down the pipeline when they've had time to analyze a larger sample period to avoid possible kneejerk changes.

Just how I see it..

 

[coolwhip]

I know I'm just theory crafting, but clone shatter is now even more important. That way, the clone doesn't go away on its own and you have access to it immediately. There are already ways to use it during corner combos for ridiculous damage, and you'll set up the clone immediately afterwards. Yes, I'm aware you need to catch the combo at just the right time before the clone disappears but what's wrong with that?

 

[ManjoumeThunder]

again, no where in here am I complaining, I just listed what changes and how it effects a situation. However, rather than this becoming a brain storm thread it has become a thread for others to come in and talk about how happy they are about the nerf. You guys assume I am complaining because its what you want me to be doing. This is why there are so many "good" or "much needed" comments. Just a bait to try and get me to rant or whatever you want to call it.

Lets get to brain storming now

The fact others come in to say how happy they are about the nerf almost means they're also here to see how adversely Sub-Zero players react to the same situation (as in they came here to see complaints).

 

[DarksydeDash]

Oh wow guys because 33% off an unsafe overhead was ssoo much. yet there's characters like Kung Jin who still get 35% off of one. God grandmaster is going to be hard to maintain corner pressure if your opponent can just turtle when you have no meter.

 

[RelentlessOhio]

All I'm gathering from this is that SZ players are mad he got nerfed. But have no opposing opinions on why he shouldn't have been.

You won't catch me bitching when KL gets nerfed.

 

[Wetdoba]

Not downplaying, I still think he is really good but how does he have godlike normals?

One of the best D4s in the game, good d3, long reaching anti-airing overhead with b2, b12 and f42 great whiff punishing mids that are safe, double low into full combos with b33, 6 frame stand 1

 

[biggabarr]

sub still have a 50/50, kung lao has nothing, no low he needs a low starter .

 

[RelentlessOhio]

sub still have a 50/50, kung lao has nothing, no low he needs a low starter .

You're playing him wrong then.

 

[Northern Slasher]

I'm assuming you play Jax because of your avatar.
Do you realise that you as long as you have at least one bar of meter, you completely ass fuck sub zero for doing a Klone meterless from anything other than f4?

It's worth noting that F4 Klone or ice ball is not hit confirm-able on block or hit, so either way, going with the safe option will mean that even on hit, the best you can get is f4 Klone and miss potential combo damage, all because its the only safe string to cancel from when the opponent has no meter.

Play him yourself for a few days, against good players.

Sorry but no I do not completely ass fuck SZ with an armored escape. I can get out, provided I have meter and haven't used it on a breaker trying to gtfo of Alcatraz.

I shouldn't have to hope and pray I have a meter to get out. Also if he has half a brain and keeps an eye on my meter, a competent player won't endlessly try and combo me. He will bait my wake up and full punish me and I'm right back where I started.

 

[Northern Slasher]

The only thing I complain about is the players that cry. The truth is that many of these players who are now saying "good", "thank god", etc.. will still get absolutely destroyed and turn around and demand more nerfs.

You guys do not consider the people who cry for nerfs complainers. Yet, you consider those who call out the people who are crying complainers.

Ironic. As you are arguably the biggest fucking whiner in the pro FG scene.

 

[STK]

The good news is that the corner combos are now adjusted to include the ice blast with b2, 4 ice blast and detonate the klone, or b33 ice blast.

But in all honestly, I play way more Cryo and Unbreakable than anything else.

what do you mean?

 

[Tom Brady]

Were the people crying for nerfs responsible for these changes? No. They are irrelevant regarding this.

Also, m2dave's thread in support of NOT nerfing the klone was met with overwhelming support by the majority of the community. There is a false narrative being sold that the changes made to sub zero were due to community crying. I'm setting this straight.

For what it's worth, I agree with you that we shouldn't put up with complaining as much as we do.

I am not saying that Paulo nerfed anything because of crying. However, it is the belief that the community has that if they cry loud enough that Paulo will hear their cries and nerf that prevents payers from hitting the lab and finding ways to beat things. Maybe if they hit the lab they would find the answer they are looking for.

 

[Clark L.]

sub still have a 50/50, kung lao has nothing, no low he needs a low starter .

If nrs gave Kung Lao a low starter, he would be broke broke.

 

[Ugodimak]

Can somebody confirm to me if Sub's 11 is 10 frames now?

 

[NaughtySenpai]

I take everything Tom says with a grain of salt, since he competes in this game.
That being said, I'm salty overall that a patch came out to "balance" a 4 weeks old game.

Seriously?
This patch should've been bug fixes, nothing else.
Game is 1 month old so who the fuck knows what characters are good or not?

 

[Qwark28]

Can somebody confirm to me if Sub's 11 is 10 frames now?

11 doesn't matter. 1 does.

 

[looktotheluna]

Sub gets nerfed and Erron Black goes completely untouched. LOL

I guess being SonicFox/Boon's twitter pal has its benefits. (I like SonicFox but him constantly complaining about SZ on twitter surely influenced the decision to nerf him)

Yeah, nerf sub before EVO 2015 because I want to win, as it was the character that gave me problems lol

 

[Kombat_Killer908]

I was finally getting good with the setups and now gone

 

[SneakyTortoise]

I am not saying that Paulo nerfed anything because of crying. However, it is the belief that the community has that if they cry loud enough that Paulo will hear their cries and nerf that prevents payers from hitting the lab and finding ways to beat things. Maybe if they hit the lab they would find the answer they are looking for.

Forgive me for not believing that, as in your first post in the patch thread you posted something like: "crying > levelling up"

And then posted the same thing in this op before editing.

 

[SocalZOD]

B2 B2 1 1 1 112 is 29%, gives hard knockdown into clone

B2 242 112 the same

What we're seeing here is a damage reduction in B2 corner combos, with you having to spend a bar of meter to get your usual 37% into the F12 setup which is superior to everything else

So basically, a character that is designed around cornering you has to spend a bar of meter to do 37% and still get a safe clone out. That is dumb in my opinion but let's move on.

Assuming 112 is now the superior ender after a B2 combo, Subzero's B2 falls in the hole of what I wanted B33 not to be, low damage.

I've been wanting for weeks to find a good combo that lets B33 escape the 28% dmg territory but it seems that it and B2 now have very similar damage.

But, shatter mixups still do the same damage, which means 2 things.

Subzero had 2 main setups, either ending in close clone or med distance clone

Close clone granted you the throw mixup, where if they tech they still get frozen. Medium distance clone granted you shatter mixups.

Now that SZ's damage off of B2 has been reduced, the situation is like this; Add an untechable throw combo into your mixup and do damage in the high 20s with your overhead/low starters

Forgo the untechable throw and have your meterless mixups do damage in the mid 40s

So it's a more severe case of pick your poison.

You should be able to use b33D4? also

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Sub gets nerfed and Erron Black goes completely untouched. LOL

I guess being SonicFox/Boon's twitter pal has its benefits. (I like SonicFox but him constantly complaining about SZ on twitter surely influenced the decision to nerf him)

You're right, because Paulo is paid by NetherRealm and Warner Bros. to take a 17-year-old's Twitter opinion on how to patch his game.

Paulo doesn't have a mind of his own and doesn't watch gameplay, he just trolls social media to figure out what changes to make to make next to a muiltimillion-dollar IP.