General/Other - Grandmaster New patch removes Some of SZ corner combo & trapping options

[coolwhip]

Also, Tom, practice what you preach. You condescended to everyone since the day the game came out about not freaking out about their characters, calling a character bad, etc...before "letting the game breathe." Whatever happened to that?

To use your own words, you no longer have the GOD GIVEN RIGHT to trap someone in the corner for eternity. That's OK. Find ways around it. The patch has literally been in place for a few hours.

 

[Wetdoba]

Bingo! This right here is what people can't seem to comprehend. If everyone had a meterless option to escape klone pressure then you would never have to fear anything from SZ and klone pressure would be terrible/nonexistent.

Subzero doesnt have to use the ice clone as the only way to open people up dude. He still has a low and overhead starter, amazing mid strings for whiff punishing with b12 and f42, godlike d4 and oh yeah f4xxklone is still universally safe on block and tons more are for meter. Looks like Sub players will have to start using their brains now too bad. If you think grandmaster is bad now you are straight up pathetic. His normals are some of the most fundamentally good ones in the game. Level up

 

[Parnak]

NRS, please make tutorial videos, not nerf patches. Things like that Ermac bar building combo were obviously broken and yes, it had to go asap BUT, crippling escapable/punishable strategies that took training hours to be found only to silence some immature whining ain't the way to go..

 

[C9-Keiji]

Subzero doesnt have to use the ice clone as the only way to open people up dude. He still has a low and overhead starter, amazing mid strings for whiff punishing with b12 and f42, godlike d4 and oh yeah f4xxklone is still universally safe on block and tons more are for meter. Looks like Sub players will have to start using their brains now too bad. If you think grandmaster is bad now you are straight up pathetic. His normals are some of the most fundamentally good ones in the game. Level up

I like this guys positive train of thought. Curious to see how sub players adapt. Cant wait to watch the next few majors.

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

Subzero doesnt have to use the ice clone as the only way to open people up dude. He still has a low and overhead starter, amazing mid strings for whiff punishing with b12 and f42, godlike d4 and oh yeah f4xxklone is still universally safe on block and tons more are for meter. Looks like Sub players will have to start using their brains now too bad. If you think grandmaster is bad now you are straight up pathetic. His normals are some of the most fundamentally good ones in the game. Level up

I wasn't talking about his normals, nor did I say he was even remotely bad, so I have no idea what you're talking about. I was referring to Brady's post that was referring to another gentleman's post who complained about needing to spend meter to escape Sub's corner pressure. The conversion was exclusively about the requirement of meter to escape the klone.

Maybe if I had of said he had bad normals and strings or that he was bad then your completely unrelated rant about normals and leveling up might have made sense.
Also LOL at "his normals are some of the most fundamentally good ones in the game"

 

[Qwark28]

B2 B2 1 1 1 112 is 29%, gives hard knockdown into clone

B2 242 112 the same

What we're seeing here is a damage reduction in B2 corner combos, with you having to spend a bar of meter to get your usual 37% into the F12 setup which is superior to everything else

So basically, a character that is designed around cornering you has to spend a bar of meter to do 37% and still get a safe clone out. That is dumb in my opinion but let's move on.

Assuming 112 is now the superior ender after a B2 combo, Subzero's B2 falls in the hole of what I wanted B33 not to be, low damage.

I've been wanting for weeks to find a good combo that lets B33 escape the 28% dmg territory but it seems that it and B2 now have very similar damage.

But, shatter mixups still do the same damage, which means 2 things.

Subzero had 2 main setups, either ending in close clone or med distance clone

Close clone granted you the throw mixup, where if they tech they still get frozen. Medium distance clone granted you shatter mixups.

Now that SZ's damage off of B2 has been reduced, the situation is like this; Add an untechable throw combo into your mixup and do damage in the high 20s with your overhead/low starters

Forgo the untechable throw and have your meterless mixups do damage in the mid 40s

So it's a more severe case of pick your poison.

 

[NB Semi Evil Ryu]

I played only a few matches, but in these corner scenarios, I've only changed one thing: I've been chilling and playing neutral for that one or two seconds after my first clone is out.

After that (if my opponent sits still), I go in. If my opponent gets the cadence (my timing) down of this approach, I'll just play neutral a little longer and see if he does something then. Otherwise, I'll just start mixing up my timing of when I start to go in.

Mind you, I've only been doing this for online matches. I've yet to play this new patch with any of my local guys in sets, so we'll see how my new corner approach goes then.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

Weird I thought Summoner Quan got hit the hardest.
Also, I mean that sucks that he can't trap as well anymore, but like... As a Lackey Torr player I'm happy to actually have an option now.

Summoner barely got touched

 

[SneakyTortoise]

again, no where in here am I complaining, I just listed what changes and how it effects a situation. However, rather than this becoming a brain storm thread it has become a thread for others to come in and talk about how happy they are about the nerf. You guys assume I am complaining because its what you want me to be doing. This is why there are so many "good" or "much needed" comments. Just a bait to try and get me to rant or whatever you want to call it.

Lets get to brain storming now

Absolutely not. Before you edited your OP you were blaming those that had been crying about sub zero for these changes. Don't try and pretend now that that didn't happen.
At least admit that you were complaining to begin with rather than try and sell us this bullshit victim card

 

[MagicMan357]

so once again, people are mad that they fixed him? This shit is old as fuck, i know for a damn fact youre overreacting like everybody else

 

[McChillin]

B2 B2 1 1 1 112 is 29%, gives hard knockdown into clone

B2 242 112 the same

What we're seeing here is a damage reduction in B2 corner combos, with you having to spend a bar of meter to get your usual 37% into the F12 setup which is superior to everything else

So basically, a character that is designed around cornering you has to spend a bar of meter to do 37% and still get a safe clone out. That is dumb in my opinion but let's move on.

Assuming 112 is now the superior ender after a B2 combo, Subzero's B2 falls in the hole of what I wanted B33 not to be, low damage.

I've been wanting for weeks to find a good combo that lets B33 escape the 28% dmg territory but it seems that it and B2 now have very similar damage.

But, shatter mixups still do the same damage, which means 2 things.

Subzero had 2 main setups, either ending in close clone or med distance clone

Close clone granted you the throw mixup, where if they tech they still get frozen. Medium distance clone granted you shatter mixups.

Now that SZ's damage off of B2 has been reduced, the situation is like this; Add an untechable throw combo into your mixup and do damage in the high 20s with your overhead/low starters

Forgo the untechable throw and have your meterless mixups do damage in the mid 40s

Is 112 the better HKD option than F12?

 

[Qwark28]

Is 112 the better HKD option than F12?

It's the only viable hard knockdown I've found so far off of B2 B2 that gives you any decent damage.

 

[Qwark28]

Don't know if this as already been mentioned but can still combo into clone from b2 starter straight after putting a clone out ... with b2 , 212 , 1 , b12 , clone , njp , njk

Not on yt but uploaded it to photobucket if its worked ..

http://vid1144.photobucket.com/albums/o492/redtailboas1/Mortal Kombat X_20150515153743_zpsiaqhduhz.mp4

Problem solved partly actually.

 

[XxPlaneCrashxX]

tom you should really switch characters in the mk games.. you had bad luck in mk9 and now the same again..
i switched from cassie to jax and sonya after the first week because i knew that these popular characters always get raped by netherpatch studios

 

[LaidbackOne]

So if ice clone is not already out then he gets a safe ice clone set up, if it was already out and was the reason for opening up his opponent in the corner then he doesnt get another one for free... Sounds reasonable to me. Dude still has godlike normals.

Not downplaying, I still think he is really good but how does he have godlike normals?

 

[JDE]

I didn't think it was all that bad. It's too bad that not a lot of people either didn't know what to look for to punish, looked at the streams that were posted on how to deal with his situations, or the video that was posted on how safe he really was. Or just took some time out to learn how to deal in general. Just blatantly wanted it nerfed just to "want it nerfed because you hate Sub-Zero." Now, Sub-Zero will have to find other ways to strengthen his klone game (smh). I hope he still does fine.

Also, wasn't this supposed to be a discussion for Sub-Zero players? LOL

 

[Chaosphere]

If you didnt have to spend a bar, the situation would be useless and SZ would be bottom. This idea that you are entitled to get out of the characters main strength for free is ridiculous. And SZ dies not beat Raiden by running away. If this is what's beating you the the issue isn't with SZ, its with you knowing what to do.

I could make that same argument about you not having to spend meter for your setups in the corner and that would make SZ top tier. The idea that you're entitled to do all of your setups for free is ridiculous. =P /troll

Also, not sure how thundergod raiden gets in on sub outside of armoring through his block strings to clone in the neutral game. Clearly once I knock him down I can start going ham, but that's not what I was referring to. So... if you know something I don't.. plz halp lol. I've played around with the 1122 and b1122 strings to teleport around, but that can be blown up so hard. Have also played around with doing my long range charge strings... but they leave me pretty vulnerable. My training partner mains sub.

So my strategy is to just chill. If he's going to constantly have a clone up... I'm just going to chill. I can't armor through his clone/ice ball shenannies as that will blow through all of my armor. So once again... I just chill. Wait for him to back himself into the corner. Just walk forward, duck ice balls, try to whiff punish. You're making it sound like there's something obvious I'm missing, but I don't see it.

 

[ManjoumeThunder]

Because "you guys" were not punishing. That's not getting away with murder because he can, it's because "you guys" allowed it by refusing to punish him.

I mean, he's not wrong.

 

[Lord Beef]

Problem solved partly actually.

/thread

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Also, Tom, practice what you preach. You condescended to everyone since the day the game came out about not freaking out about their characters, calling a character bad, etc...before "letting the game breathe." Whatever happened to that?

To use your own words, you no longer have the GOD GIVEN RIGHT to trap someone in the corner for eternity. That's OK. Find ways around it. The patch has literally been in place for a few hours.

It hasn't even come out on Xbox yet.

 

[UsedForGlue]

In the corner, SZ can no longer combo into Ice Clone if he hits the opponent while the Ice Clone is currently out unless it is at the final second to 1/2 second of the Ice Clone. This takes away his ability to set up his clone trap safely after landing B2 in the corner while the clone is out.

This hurts his trapping BIG TIME and hurts is damage/combo-ability. Now, not only does SZ need meter for almost everything in open space, he needs it for corner combos as well.

The good news is that the corner combos are now adjusted to include the ice blast with b2, 4 ice blast and detonate the klone, or b33 ice blast.

But in all honestly, I play way more Cryo and Unbreakable than anything else.

 

[bomb]

Tom. Comment on Ferra/Torr Lackey against Clone Sub. You won't because you know Sub Clone still has far more options.

 

[Tom Brady]

Absolutely not. Before you edited your OP you were blaming those that had been crying about sub zero for these changes. Don't try and pretend now that that didn't happen.
At least admit that you were complaining to begin with rather than try and sell us this bullshit victim card

The only thing I complain about is the players that cry. The truth is that many of these players who are now saying "good", "thank god", etc.. will still get absolutely destroyed and turn around and demand more nerfs.

You guys do not consider the people who cry for nerfs complainers. Yet, you consider those who call out the people who are crying complainers.

 

[UsedForGlue]

How do I punish strings cancelling into ice clones over and over and over in the corner?

Perhaps "you guys" should take your own advice and level up, besides "you guys" all crying.

I'm assuming you play Jax because of your avatar.
Do you realise that you as long as you have at least one bar of meter, you completely ass fuck sub zero for doing a Klone meterless from anything other than f4?

It's worth noting that F4 Klone or ice ball is not hit confirm-able on block or hit, so either way, going with the safe option will mean that even on hit, the best you can get is f4 Klone and miss potential combo damage, all because its the only safe string to cancel from when the opponent has no meter.

Play him yourself for a few days, against good players.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Problem solved partly actually.

lol

so....... about that trapping

it always made more sense to me that the shatter was supposed to add the significant damage total.

I couldn't really ever find a mid screen use for it and in the corner it really does alot of neat things.

The throw tech thing is still broken and i am super surprised it stayed.