Menu
By:
Filters
What's new

Strategy - Grandmaster New Clone Cancel Mindgame

Tom Brady

Tom Brady

Champion
Ok.. now that the clone disappears on block, lets look at a scenario here.

Take Kung Lao as an example-- he already punishes every thing we have. However, he can now also go in the offensive after any clone cancel without using any meter or trying a risky dive kick punish over the top of the clone.

He can jump in 2 and go into 11, B12, etc.. He can use that to keep you blocking after the jump in and then switch it up by using B2/Low Hat/Teleport mix ups. You can always back dash the B2 but when you do that he goes right back to 11, B12, etc and hits you. Keep in mind that he can still low hat/teleport after any of his fast strings such as 11 and B12.

Your options are ..
  • you can EX DB1 which (most of the time) will lead to a 31% combo thanks to the shatter but this can prove to be an inconsistent juggle based on where he is in the jump when the shattering clone hits him.
  • You can also just back dash and KL will have to dive kick (which will hit your back dash) or EX Teleport to avoid being frozen.
  • You can D4 as he jumps and lower your hitbox. This prevents KL from making contact with you and gets him frozen by the clone. KL can whiff his dive kick over your low profile attack though.

MANY characters present this mind game. Looks like we need to start using meter/stamina to punish people from jumping over clones.Looks like people got the meterless option they so desired.

We need to work on a RELIABLE combo off of EX DB1 which the clone shatter when the opponent jumps it from any cancel as the spacing changes things based on what move/string we cancelled into the clone off of..


I am seriously thinking about missing combo breaker because these are some SIGNIFICANT changes and 7 days is a very short time to learn all the inns and outs.
 
Last edited:
Rickyraws

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
At work so I'm unfortunately not able to actually test anything, but I was theorizing anti air options outside of d2 and wondered if Sub's 6 frame j3 after a clone cancel would provide a scenario where it either anti airs them even before the peak of their jump (leaving them to fall in the clone or get HKD'd)

Since the new meta in such a scenario is almost always banking on the fact that they may try to jump, mixing other anti airing options may be something to look at.
 
SWonder916

SWonder916

When's DragonBall?
Obviously a teleport or one of Kenshi's specials also for example will hit on block or potentially punish, but what if Sub simply crouches or crouch blocks a Jump In attack? Would that lower his hitbox enough to leave the opponent falling into the clone?
Sidenote: The cooldown on clone's gonna take a little getting use to too, that'll be an adjustment for sure compared to the combos I assume we all were memorizing
 
Tom Brady

Tom Brady

Champion
Rickyraws said:
At work so I'm unfortunately not able to actually test anything, but I was theorizing anti air options outside of d2 and wondered if Sub's 6 frame j3 after a clone cancel would provide a scenario where it either anti airs them even before the peak of their jump (leaving them to fall in the clone or get HKD'd)

Since the new meta in such a scenario is almost always banking on the fact that they may try to jump, mixing other anti airing options may be something to look at.
Click to expand...
No, because the opponent can always opt to jump kick over jump punch. Their jump kick will beat yours due to your recovery after clone cancel and will also get over the clone and make contact with you if you block. You would have to low profile/armor/back dash/ uppercut the jump kick. Also, some characters have jump kicks that you simply will not uppercut from that range.
 
NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
I can see shatter being used more and more here.

I'm assuming that you're talking about situations where you clone off of f4 and they simply jump during your recovery?
 
Tom Brady

Tom Brady

Champion
Braindead said:
@Tom Brady what about forward dash if they jump instead of backdash?
Click to expand...
I used forward dash in my current meta pre patch as opponents couldnt jump in so they either waked back, jump back as i ran in, or they would just crouch block. If they walked back or attacked as they saw me begin to run, I would ex slide into clone. If they jumped back as I ran in I would B2. If they stayed blocking I would throw them into the clone. With the opponents new options via patch this is now a HUGE mind game where we are guessing on one billion scenarios that will all get us killed if we are wrong.

I honestly believe this patch will most likely move SZ to the bottom of or even out of the top 10.
 
Rickyraws

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
Tom Brady said:
No, because the opponent can always opt to jump kick over jump punch. Their jump kick will beat yours due to your recovery after clone cancel and will also get over the clone and make contact with you if you block. You would have to low profile/armor/back dash/ uppercut the jump kick. Also, some characters have jump kicks that you simply will not uppercut from that range.
Click to expand...
Shit, yeah I see what you mean. Damn, in hindsight having MB clone retain the persistence wouldn't have been so bad when you consider the meter use that's all but necessary at this point.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Our main options are low profile or back off.

I think this is very good in the case of characters who only get the jip/jik mixup because it's all the more incentive for them to kill themselves but a problem in the hands of someone like KL.
 
RVB

RVB

twitch.tv/rvblacktail
So let me get this straight NRS decided that instead of fixing the broken hitbox of the klone on block, they just decided to remove the klone all together???
I play on PC so I haven't had a chance to enjoy the new "fixes" yet.
My question is if the klone goes away on block will the klone cooldown be reset when that happens?
 
Solid

Solid

The Longbow Hunter.
Don't have the patch yet. What about slide for dealing with jump ins post clone and building some meter in the process?
 
Marvaz

Marvaz

come at me
I don't know if it was a glitch or what but i was playing online earlier and the opponent did a jump in punch after clone and i got hit but he still got frozen?
 
Last edited:
Bidu

Bidu

the CHILL of DESPAIR
Marvaz said:
I don't know if it was a glitch or what but i was playing online earlier and the opponent did a jump in punch after clone and i got hit but he still got frozen?
Click to expand...
Probably happened at the same time... if not another glitch.
 
Limelights

Limelights

"The smart stuff"
I swear the clone disappearing on block isn't consistent at all. Sometimes I block a jip and it disappears, other times I see their jip and they get frozen. Maybe their jip is active, but hasn't made contact before they touch the clone?
 
Endeavor

Endeavor

I'll live a villain, before I die a hero.
The other issue with clone being the way it is now, is that if gives the opponent even more ways to get out of the corner. I can only hope the Clone glitches will get fixed as the new patches come out, or that they will make clone back to the way it used to be (LOL I know they wont, cause if sub keeps his dirt its extremely unfair.) That being said I wanna know what you guys are doing to lock down people in the corner if you dont score a hit buy time the clone goes away since you can no longer just loop it.
 
Last edited:
TH3DISTURBED1

TH3DISTURBED1

"Never say 'never'
I've been watching the TotFC footage from yesterday: did nobody know they could do this? Up to your match against SidTheHaze, I haven't seen anyone jump it in the corner yet.
 
Bidu

Bidu

the CHILL of DESPAIR
Subzeeros said:
The other issue with clone being the way it is now, is that if gives the opponent even more ways to get out of the corner. I can only hope the Clone glitches will get fixed as the new patches come out, or that they will make clone back to the way it used to be (LOL I know they wont, cause if sub keeps his dirt its extremely unfair.) That being said I wanna know what you guys are doing to lock down people in the corner if you dont score a hit buy time the clone goes away since you can no longer just loop it.
Click to expand...
I'm basically playing only a little bit differently. I can't get close enough to block an attack, so I gotta keep distance and try to play safe as much as possible. Many opponents like to neutral jump when cornered by Sub-Zero. I either wait them for land to try a 50/50 or I smash Clone, this way I'll have time to set up another clone in most situations.

If Clone vanishes by its own, I just keep in mind that it's when my opponent will mostly likely play offensive and try to gtfo off corner. I like to neutral kick predicting their jump. It gives hard knock down and has a long range.


TH3DISTURBED1 said:
http://www.twitch.tv/digitalprosports/v/5101444
Click to expand...
What time precisely, please?
 
Bidu

Bidu

the CHILL of DESPAIR
By the way

The exactly time when a new clone is gonna be available is when the ice fume from the previously one is gone. Don't know if anyone noticed that.
 
RVB

RVB

twitch.tv/rvblacktail
I think we can all agree that having a cooldown on the klone isn't something we can't overcome, the problem I have is with the clone disappearing on block.
Why was this implemented when in the MK 9 we did have a cooldown yet the the klone didn't vanish on block... what purpose does this serve other than to nerf SZ?
ALSO air klones... yeah remember those from MK9... the good times when you would do jump in klone to bait people.
Why aren't these in the game?
Right now I'm still waiting on this damn patch to show up on PC.
 
Last edited:
Alarmingly Fast Skeleton

Alarmingly Fast Skeleton

Noob
RVB said:
I think we can all agree that having a cooldown on the klone isn't something we can't overcome, the problem I have is with the clone disappearing on block.
Why was this implemented when in the MK 9 we did have a cooldown yet the the klone didn't vanish on block... what purpose does this serve other than to nerf SZ?
ALSO air klones... yeah remember those from MK9... the good times when you would do jump in klone to bait people.
Why aren't these in the game?
Right now I'm still waiting on this damn patch to show up on PC.
Click to expand...
The only purpose it serves is to make the match up against him easier on the opponent. The only thing the patch did was make it so people didn't have to study the match-up as hard as they had to. I still find it hilarious how people use complaints like "But you gotta use meter to get out of his pressure!" Isn't that the point of specializing in a variation? If you make his dirt free to get out of your pretty much handing them the game, then yet again that's just what they want.
 
ZeZe

ZeZe

The smart stuff!
I've noticed many people (me including) easly agree on 2 seconds cool down and strongly disagree on punishing SZ with clone vanish for blocking. I've read colt's explanation in patch topic; it is not convincing at all. Hell it's not even an explanation, it's a suggestion how to overcome the nerf in certain scenario. I have yet to hear some serious reasoning behind that, I would be grateful to know, why klone vanish on block is necessary in MKX for a character that isn't even considered top 5.

On the bright side though: having to shatter clone before it's gone on its own will help building meter and will lead to lots of brutalities. :coffee:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.