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NetherRealm scene on fire as question sparks debate

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Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
to be fair. the only defensive tool Quan lacked was reliable armor. He had the best backdash, excellent reach including a halfscreen 15f overhead, good movespeed two different projectiles one of which was castable from air and the other one plus on block, and he could summon a bat or a portal to get away with even more and control more space. He could be a brick wall to get in on if the player had solid defensive fundamentals.
In mkx, having the worst armor and wakeup in the game and initially a terrible poke pretty much means you're terrible defensively. How much of the meta revolved around blowing up gaps with armor, often for full combo punish? Up until the end of the life of the game that was huge.

I'm not gonna deny he had great zoning and that he was a good character. But, what does a good OH and mix in general have to do with defense though? I guess you're arguing that the range he had meant he could protect the area in front of him, but he's just not in line with the design of a defense first character. He definitely could zone some characters out, but I don't think that constitutes defense, and definitely not in the sense that most people mean when they talk about defense. Unless you're contention is that effective zoners are defensive by default, which I see to some extent, but I think "zoner" and "defensive wall" are different enough archetypes to warrant distinction. Especially when that zoner has such damaging zoning and mix and offense in general.

A bat was more a tool to keep your turn, extend combos and net damage than a defensive tool imo. It was a good AA and you had to respect it for sure, but again, is that defensive? I don't think so really. Much in the way that batmans trait can be used defensively but it is used more for pressure, combo extension, etc. it still is good to cover unsafe stuff.

TBH I'm not that motivated to debate Quan Chi beyond saying pretty confidently that his identity and design was not defense first.

But this is all moot because Roy Arkon clarified that he was not intending to suggest that Quan Chi was a primarily defensive character.

It is interesting to talk about what tools are offensive and what are defensive, but I think we all pretty much agreed that the nature of fighting games means the line between offense and defense is pretty damn blurry when it comes to what tool is which.

But I think for the most part, people know a defensive character when the see one.

Aquaman (especially pre patch) is a quintessential defensive character to me with the counterzoning, the extremely long range normals, great AA, a trait that drops you out of combos, a playstyle catered to whiff punishing and spacing out normals, etc.

You brought up some good points though, and from full screen and with a life lead, Quan could be played pretty defensively, and his backdash is great, and when his d1 went to what, 6f? That was pretty big.
 

Hiyomoto

Noob
This is not how snapping on someone looks like.
Boon is not some random dude who has nothing better to do than to not only follow every shitposter on the web, but also to reply to everyone. He occasionally uses Twitter though, so there's that.


I dunno, I was under impression we have competitive events for that specific purpose.

If players feel like maintaining some sort of rivalry they will manage to do so themselves, without this "help" from bitter ex-player who maintains a small community so infested with toxicity and sense of exclusiveness that I'm occasionally starting to believe in this entire "I'm making NRS community a favour" narrative just because he keeps this shit contained.

But on the other hand, SF and Dragon don't mind playing along, so who am I to judge vOv

Frankly, I don't see anything really wrong with Pig's actions either, but it confuses me a great deal as to why people decided to stir drama around Boon's response. Okay, I get it, Pig can't take some heat, even imaginary, but the rest?
Well some of us don’t have the time to sit down and watch these events from beginning to end so seeing recaps and questions such as “who do you think deserved it more” about the results helps tons and makes the events a lot more interesting to comb through. I mean why watch a competitive event where there’s no narrative of rivalry between two dominating forces of the game? At that point it feels like the players have no personality or competitiveness (even though they are competing). Just cause a small number of people get their feelings hurt by trash talk doesn’t mean there isn’t an audience out there that loves it and thinks it adds a whole new layer of excitement to the events. But that’s my opinion.
 

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
MK9 was an amazing game, fuck what the haters/trolls say.
It was fun, but it was fucking bad my guy. I loved playing it, it was where I have my favorite moments in this community and when I had the most fun playing fighting games, but tbh there was so much bs in that game it was ridiculous. Kabal should be the only thing I really need to say.
 

Cerbero

Always down for games.
to be fair. the only defensive tool Quan lacked was reliable armor. He had the best backdash, excellent reach including a halfscreen 15f overhead, good movespeed two different projectiles one of which was castable from air and the other one plus on block, and he could summon a bat or a portal to get away with even more and control more space. He could be a brick wall to get in on if the player had solid defensive fundamentals.
OH was 17frames if i’m not mistaken, it hit 1/4 of screen not half screen.
It then was made into a mid, his f4? OH could’ve been 15frames but it didn’t hit half screen.

I love how you mix pre & post patch info...

One of the best backdashes in the game was still not good enough for 1/4 of screen advancing mids + running made it weaker then it was.

The rest I agreed he had a lot of dirt & he stood no chance against heavy pressure chars(which was 90% plus of the cast btw lol)
 

Cerbero

Always down for games.
It was fun, but it was fucking bad my guy. I loved playing it, it was where I have my favorite moments in this community and when I had the most fun playing fighting games, but tbh there was so much bs in that game it was ridiculous. Kabal should be the only thing I really need to say.
it had balance issues, glitches, shitty netcode etc but it was a damn good game.

Playing footsies was rewarding, defensive play was viable, aas were great, good walk speed etc the game was art at the highest level if you don’t count the broken chars lol
 

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
it had balance issues, glitches, shitty netcode etc but it was a damn good game.

Playing footsies was rewarding, defensive play was viable, aas were great, good walk speed etc the game was art at the highest level if you don’t count the broken chars lol
Well some of that I can agree with, but overall I saw it as horribly flawed. We can just agree to disagree on those parts though lol. I'm not trying to argue the validity of a dead game ya did?
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
OH was 17frames if i’m not mistaken, it hit 1/4 of screen not half screen.
It then was made into a mid, his f4? OH could’ve been 15frames but it didn’t hit half screen.

I love how you mix pre & post patch info...

One of the best backdashes in the game was still not good enough for 1/4 of screen advancing mids + running made it weaker then it was.

The rest I agreed he had a lot of dirt & he stood no chance against heavy pressure chars(which was 90% plus of the cast btw lol)
B2 was fastest than any other normal that reached as far as it did, and could be cancelled into a plus on block launcher. I'm not mixing post patch info in at all. And even as a mid makes zero difference when we are talking defensive tool, but for the majority of the games life it was an overhead so it's not a relevant point at all

And if you think he stood no chance vs 90% of the cast because they were heavy rush down, you are on some heavy shit. He was the best character in the game through multiple patches, and in one patch he was in his own tier
 
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Cerbero

Always down for games.
B2 was fastest than any other normal that reached as far as it did, and could be cancelled into a plus on block launcher. I'm not mixing post patch info in at all. And even as a mid makes zero difference when we are talking defensive tool, but for the majority of the games life it was an overhead so it's not a relevant point at all

And if you think he stood no chance vs 90% of the cast because they were heavy rush down, you are on some heavy shit. He was the best character in the game through multiple patches, and in one patch he was in his own tier
Best char in the game through multiple patches is a big statement, he was one of the best at some stages of the game not multiple, Lao, Alien, Tanya etc were top at some point too.

whatever i’m done.
 

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
Let's be honest the real problem with playing defensively in MKX is because it was in no way designed to do so. There are almost 0 defensive mechanics to help you out in that game, and the ones that existed fucking sucked. You can be punished in that game for blocking.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
Also can we be serious here? Ed is creative director for a multi million dollar company. I’m doing 21 national broadcasts a month between 7 networks. None of us have time for bullshit, i tried to create some fun non toxic hype to generate conversation and Ed and Co were deeply offended by it. It’s fucking weird and i don’t have time to fool w it. He has my contact info he can hit me up, eventually I’ll find time to do the same
a) who is "ed and co"?
b) what is "deep offense"
c) if the goal was "conversation" congrats, you did it.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Best char in the game through multiple patches is a big statement, he was one of the best at some stages of the game not multiple, Lao, Alien, Tanya etc were top at some point too.

whatever i’m done.
There's room for that all to be true there was a shitload of patches lol, the games life was like 2 years and patches were a lot more frequent with sometimes 3 or more in the one month, Top Tanya lasted like 3 weeks before nerfs, Alien was one of the last DLC, and Lao at his pinnacle was still interchangeable with Quan tiering.

I get it, you're TYMs current village idiot so stupid statements are par for course, but saying he had no chance vs 90% of the roster makes even the worst downplay combined look like well measured statements in comparison. So if you're done, please be done for good Shaka, hurts my head to see you talking about a game you clearly don't understand and i doubt you actually played.
 
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